Should cities be inside-out to reduce pollution?

[kmarinas86]

 

Which city do you think is most efficient.

 

The first one is a new design I made.

The second one resembles my hometown. My hometown is Houston and is an urban sprawl.

I'm wondering if it is possible to have a suburban core and urban outskirts.

I'm wondering if it would reduce traffic congestion.

I'm wondering if would make people happier.

I'm wondering if it would reduce class stratification.

I'm wondering if could hold more people in less space without increasing traffic.

I'm wondering if it could provided more balanced and equal access to different parts of the city.

I'm wondering if such a city is easier to evacuate during emergencies.

I'm wondering if such a city would spread disease less quickly.

I'm wondering if there is any city like this

I'm wondering if such a city has any of the other characteristics I just talked about.

 

[kmarinas86]

[freeztar]

First of all, very interesting topic kmarinas! :)

 

Which city do you think is most efficient.

I'd love to answer this question forthright, but I'm stunned by the lack of what is outside the box (or circle in this case). Perhaps it's better that I lay aside my idea of environmental connectivity and approach this as a model. ;)

 

So, my answer would be that the 2nd city is more efficient, but that is subjective depending on how we define "efficient". In terms of commerce efficiency, I would bet on the "central hub" model. With other variables, such as utilities, the 1st city (the one you created) might very well be the most efficient of the two models you have presented. So perhaps it is best to define a criteria for efficiency. If you mean to say that your design represents a total efficiency gain over the opposing design, then perhaps qualify that by posting different types of efficiency gains/losses for both sides.

I'm wondering if it is possible to have a suburban core and urban outskirts.

It's certainly possible and a very interesting idea.

I'm wondering if it would reduce traffic congestion.

I'm guessing that it would reverse traffic trends. Downtown traffic would turn into a "circumference band" traffic, perhaps.

I'm wondering if would make people happier.

That's hard to qualify as I can't think of any examples of studies examining this. It could be the case, but the question "why?" would have to be answered before a case could be made.

I'm wondering if it would reduce class stratification.

I'm wondering if it might increase it. :)

I'm wondering if could hold more people in less space without increasing traffic.

Spreading the "urban areas" around the outside of the circle could definitely increase population density. Traffic is a big "?" at this point.

 

I'm wondering if it could provided more balanced and equal access to different parts of the city.

 

To me, this seems like one of the biggest pros for this idea.

I'm wondering if such a city is easier to evacuate during emergencies.

I'm wondering if such a city would spread disease less quickly.

Interesting questions. We can model such things, but unfortunately I don't have the facilities on hand. :hihi:

 

I'm wondering if there is any city like this

I'm wondering if such a city has any of the other characteristics I just talked about.

Good question. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I seem to recall seeing/knowing of something the same/similar. I'll dig deep and post anything relevant I come across. :P

[kmarinas86]

A: Distance from center

B: Area at this distance

C: Inside-out's population density at this distance

D: Outside-in's population density at this distance

E: Inside-out's population at this distance

F: Outside in's total population

 

					
A	B	C	D	E	F
0	0	0	10	0	0
1	1	1	9	1	9
2	3	2	8	6	24
3	6	3	7	18	42
4	10	4	6	40	60
5	15	5	5	75	75
6	21	6	4	126	84
7	28	7	3	196	84
8	36	8	2	288	72
9	45	9	1	405	45
10	55	10	0	550	0

 

INSIDE-OUT'S TOTAL POPULATION: 1705

OUTSIDE-IN'S TOTAL POPULATION: 495

 

Assuming that traffic is proportional to population density along the line, I would assume that the traffic delay inside "inside-out" city is not three times as bad.

[freeztar]

A: Distance from center

B: Area at this distance

C: Inside-out's population density at this distance

D: Outside-in's population density at this distance

E: Inside-out's population at this distance

F: Outside in's total population

 

					
A	B	C	D	E	F
0	0	0	10	0	0
1	1	1	9	1	9
2	3	2	8	6	24
3	6	3	7	18	42
4	10	4	6	40	60
5	15	5	5	75	75
6	21	6	4	126	84
7	28	7	3	196	84
8	36	8	2	288	72
9	45	9	1	405	45
10	55	10	0	550	0

 

INSIDE-OUT'S TOTAL POPULATION: 1705

OUTSIDE-IN'S TOTAL POPULATION: 495

 

Assuming that traffic is proportional to population density along the line, I would assume that the traffic delay inside "inside-out" city is not three times as bad.

 

While I give applause for the code block, I'm wondering how you came to 1705/495 for "inside-out"/"outside-in" respectively? For one thing, F-10 shows a value of "0"? :)

 

I'd be interested in knowing the difference in water surface area between the two. :P

[kmarinas86]

While I give applause for the code block, I'm wondering how you came to 1705/495 for "inside-out"/"outside-in" respectively? For one thing, F-10 shows a value of "0"? :eek_big:

 

I'd be interested in knowing the difference in water surface area between the two. :evil:

 

I took the area of the concentric ring at some distance and multiplied it by the population density.

[freeztar]

I took the area of the concentric ring at some distance and multiplied it by the population density.

 

Can you please be more specific?

[HydrogenBond]

I like the city model where all the entertainment, restaurants, nightclubs, and shopping district is in the center of the city, intermingled with parks. Sort of a pedestrian mall with few autos. The housing comes next, with more practical stores, like groceries stores, gas stations, etc, close-by. It is also set up to have various forms of public transportation from the residential to the hub. This allows the children and others, who can't drive, to get to the hub. At the outer layer is the industrial and manufacturing district. This is where the auto is useful, being the primary means of transport from the residential. This is connected with a good road system.

[kmarinas86]

Can you please be more specific?

 

Ok.

 

The circle in the middle has an area of pi and a radius of 1.

 

Beyond that, is the first ring. If it has an outer radius of 2 and an inner radius of 1 its area is (2^2 - 1^2)pi or 3 pi. Depending on the model, the population density increases or decreases linearly with radii.

 

Beyond that, is the second ring. If it has an outer radius of 3 and an inner radius of 2 its area is (3^2 - 2^2)pi or 5 pi.

 

Beyond that, is the third ring. If it has an outer radius of 4 and an inner radius of 3 its area is (4^2 - 3^2)pi or 7 pi.

 

So in general, these areas have an approximate population density, which is multiplied by the area's "area" to get the population in that area.

[kmarinas86]

a pedestrian mall with few autos.

 

That's exactly what I want.

[Boerseun]

Whilst an interesting topic, I doubt if this design is feasable. To put it simply, you can have a few shops serve many people. If you take the circumference of a circle as given by your design, the most amount of people can be housed on the outside of the city, given reasonable density levels, whilst commerce can be concentrated at the center and still be able to serve the populace. The modern trend, however, is for commerce to spread to the periphery, provided good transportation (highways, trains) are available. This isn't in support of your design, though - it's merely a reaction to high property values and traffic congestion in downtown areas. The centers are still commercial, mostly - except for those apartment dwellers who don't mind living on top of each other in high-density areas. But simply due to numbers, the populace will have to be mainly housed on the outside of the city.

[Michaelangelica]

Visit Canberra before you get two keen.

That is a "planned" city in a big sheep paddock in between Sydney and Melbourne.

(Sydney and Melbourne couldn't agree which was to be the "Capital City" so they dropped this one in,- sorta half way).

 

I think it is a 'Service(sic) Station" plot to make you giddy going around in lost circles using up more gas.

It is a very sterile town.

Nice museums though.

The new suburbs make Belsen look good.

 

The very little I saw of Houston was amazing.

My friend "Chuck" (is everyone in the USA called that?)took me to a big cow paddock.

On the other side of the paddock was high rise office blocks glass and steel to the sky.

Chuck pointed to the paddock and said proudly "There's six trillion in development going into those paddocks next year."

(Um. . . Chuck, I'm from Australia, what's a trillion?)

The city was expanding so fast there was no "old' part- it was all high rise city.

(BTW Can Texas afford unemployment benefit yet?)

 

Urban planning in NSW (OZ) is abysmal.

Governments got sick of us all having backyards to play cricket in, and abolished them. Now you have MacMansions right up to the fence line. (We all have fences, governor Macquarie decreed that 150 years ago to control the pigs wandering about.)

The government said it couldn't afford (read 'be bothered') to run sewage and water lines the extra distance if everyone kept spreading out.

(We have run out of water anyway and all have to put in rainwater tanks if we can find any backyard left to put them in.)

They called this "Urban consolidation".

Actually it was a govenment conspiracy/plot against BBQs (lots of drugs, strange burnt things you are supposed to eat, and that awful CO2) and backyard cricket.

So I'm for anything that is an improvement on "urban consolidation"

 

The best parts of Sydney are the old inner-city suburbs that poor Greeks and Italians had to live in when they immigrated. Now they are full of life, great food, ethnicity, and fabulous cheap restaurants. The backyards of places like Maricville are full of citrus, fragipannis, figs, sunflowers, vegi. & herb -gardens and grape vines.. They now cost 5 million to buy and are protected by the National heritage Trust.

 

Personally I would like an "inside out" house like the Romans and Arabs (1,000AD) built.

A Roman villa was square with a central garden pool and courtyard with underfloor heating and cooling.

Funny that neither had problems with sewerage or water supply.

Amazing how little 1,000 years of progress can get you.

[Brinnie]

i like your illustrations but i don't think much it would help pollution on a global scale if the majority of pollutants were on the outside... it would prolly just spread it out thinner and over more space rather than condensed, no?

 

in that case, yes it has advantages- like you suggested- but also has disadvantages. consider that business to business commutes would be longer and that may bring more gas pollution,no? but im sure some ppl would want 2 live there. ppl live in portland even though it rains everyday. :lol: