masonswanson Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 i think that if ai is succesful in the couple of years that we will be able to colonise space a little easier that is what i want to help with when i get older if you have a way to get money and help out with my orginization just email me at [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 i think that if ai is succesful in the couple of years that we will be able to colonise space a little easier that is what i want to help with when i get older if you have a way to get money and help out with my orginization just email me at [email protected] hey uhhh...if anybodies got some spare change they can e-mail it to me as well. :cup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Your Kopko example is good, however, can Koko pass either the Turing Test or the Turtle Test I posted above? I think not. By the by, we have an elephant in the Portland, OR zoo that paints! :cup: I think Koko would pass reasonsably in the Turing test, assuming the questions were on a level that her sign language was able to handle, (This is like asking you to participate in the test if the questions were in Cantonese. With some practice, you would undertsand and be able to respond, but the nature of your speach paterns would identify you irregardless of your specific answers). As for the Turtle test, poetry is an oral/aural art, anyone using sign would not recognize concepts such as rhyming, although I am sure that a rhythm could be noticed in the signing patern. such a test would be based on patern recognition that really does not exist in the language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 she may not because she is an APE, perhaps if the test (for consciousness and intelligence) was adapted to criteria she could understand. similarly parrots and many other animals could pass the test if the criteria made more sense to the animals being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Good points all. Inasmuch as we each comment independantly, we also must take the Turing or Turtle Tests independantly. Each of us gets a shot at Koko or Flipper, or a machine, or even each other. Then when we all finish with a subject, we tally up the votes, intellignet yeah or neah, & then attempt to draw a concensus. Yes these tests are relative, but so is the subject. :cup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 This thread has been silent for a while so I thought I would try to resurrect it with a new thought that came to me a couple of weeks back. I had been spending some time re-reading the commentary presented about this topic and while I was reading a peculiar thought crossed my mind. With the millions of personal computers now being used by people world wide, and the intranet interconnections responsible for this vast exchange of information, could it be possible that an intelligence is giving birth to it's self within the intranet. Factor into this the constant influx of these so-called viruses, might an evolutionary process have begun that will usher in a hidden intelligence within the intranet itself. And I don't mean an intelligence understood and controlled by humanity but an intelligence lying under the surface, growing and evolving waiting for the day when it might define it's own personal will. Science fiction? Maybe, but so was going to the moon just 100 years ago. Just a thought to stir the imaginations of the membership here at Hypography. Any thoughts anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 a jane using its vast potential for the purposes known only to her and her ender.. i think the net for now and at least for the next little while will lack self awareness these hacker attacks using the end nodes for there purposes demonstrates a key to why it will remain so, antivirus and basic system maintenance keeps each node free of unwanted software. also there simply aren't enough nodes on the system, nor enough bandwidth between them for any large entity to become self aware. one super node controlling a few dozen drones controlling yet more drones without the users becoming aware of the lost cycles or bandwidth may eventually happen. lastly may be the issue of latency, the is the potential to carry far more information per transmission but unless enough packets are sent recieved acknowledged and replies sent out its unlikely for a system like a consciousness could maintain integrity. as jane put it she got bored got over it and back on with her life in a few cycles, an ai wouldn't have that luxury as it wouldn't have a dedicated supernode to fall back on. "supernode", a computer able to support an AI in the first place. one with at least as much power as a human brain with enough ram and rom to operate dozens of drone boxes while having enough cycles and memory left over to host its own consciouness. "drone box" a supernode controlled by another supernode able to control several supernodes of its own, the trade off being it doesn't host its own AI. like a pyramid a single a few few boxes control a few more boxes where each of those controls even more. but down the line you start getting into boxes that have oblivious owners who never know their machines extra cycles and percentage of bandwidth and perhaps even a few gigabytes are being used by such an online entity. fiber internet, or more likely something faster with less latency will be required. jane was powered by instantaneous communication which may have allowed her communications to be sent and recieved far faster than those sent along human axons. she thus had an advantage real AIs don't. as well like most fiction expeimental military (or governmental) machines supposedly have the missing bandwidth required to create that initial system. i doubt even in the most secret labs of the world exist anything capable of matching or exceeding the raw computational power of the human mind. it will exist someday but for now imo the materials and techniques don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 i doubt even in the most secret labs of the world exist anything capable of matching or exceeding the raw computational power of the human mind. it will exist someday but for now imo the materials and techniques don't exist.Excellent post alxian, maybe we'll turn the corner when quantum computing becomes the standard for personal units. The future holds many surprises in store for us, what a wonderful time in the history of humanity to be alive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Actually it wouldn't be that hard to do. What it would take is:More people understanding/learning how to create "learning" applications. This is not that hard, it does help if you have a language or programming paradigm that supports self-modifying code, but we've been doing that in Lisp and even C++ for decades. This is not a discipline that is widely taught because its not terribly useful for the vast majority of applications that people want to use where *reliability* and *predictability of behavior* is paramount. In applications that learn, you expect the unexpected, and its a very different way of thinking.For this to *really*work, we'll need some "open" standards for getting these applications to talk to each other and share their "knowledge", and I'm not sure anyone's really thought about that problem. If I were to go back and work on my PhD, that's something I'd consider going into....I love this topic, especially for its implications for showing how intelligence is an evolutionary process, but we'll leave *that* one for another thread! This is a great site if you want to find a place to start exploring the topic: http://www.generation5.org/ Have fun! Would-you-like-to-play-a-nice-game-of-chess?Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Actually I would like to learn how to play chess on the computer. I'm rather new at this computer stuff and I haven't learned many of the computer tricks yet. It's been many years since I've played chess but I used to be pretty good at it. Teach me Buffy, teach me....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Heck I know nothing from chess. Holding Telemad off for a dozen moves was painful enough. That was just yet-another-obscure-pop-culture-reference for bon mot treasure hunters... Any of the free chess sites out there will walk you through the basic openings and so forth. And if you want to talk to an expert, bug Zadojla... Most chess playing programs are not very "intelligent" as far as AI programming go. In the past they were all brute force, although today they store all the standard openings and do more sophisticated valuation and pruning, but they're still using simple decision trees and have not incorporated (nor needed to incorporate) more sophisticated techniques like neural networks.... Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 i partially agree with buffy, in that software is the key but if we're to look at fiction the software isn't our conscern at all, if you teach the computer to program themselves based on finding bottlenecks and either pointing them out before human operators trouble shoot them or fixing them themselves. of course citing fiction as the be-itand-end-all of our real problems is silly in itself... startrek, those little fixit widgets, they were programmed i believe to fix and learn, they didn't need very high computational power in terms of raw speed but neither did they have very high networking speed. they utilized a system with less nodes doing more work with each node. i'm very certain the answer will come with higher networking speeds, our brain acts like a a programmable aray in which each neuron can serve many purposes in the network, in terms of the internet rising up and taking control of all attached computers each computer temporarily might be used for only a few tasks relative to the whole system. thus each node can be a pIII as long as it could talk to all the others very quickly and efficiently. that equilibrium between network throughput latency and individual power required per node is something the hackers are most likely to figure out before the military or scientist will. the first AI may be simply very smart worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 the first AI may be simply very smart worms.Exactly alxian, when you consider the evolution of biological life on this planet, one theory is it started with amino acids brewing together in volcanic vents. Givin the right circumstances within the intranet, maybe some hacker will create a worm that will evolve by a similar fashion. Maybe at this very moment there exists within the virtual world of the intranet a worm doing this very thing. Hidden away from our view within the silicon chips that is just waiting for the evolutionary process to complete it's work. Seriously, this isn't all that fantastic to imagine. Just remember that 100 years ago human flight was believed just as impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 quite unfortunately the "net" is not yet a viable ecosystem, it lacks adequate points of interest and the ability for an intelligence to pool for any length of time while avoiding detection. a silly thing to say when systems with many idle cycles, hundreds of gigabytes and megabits of bandwidth run by post pubescent morons seem to be so ubiquitous.... it would be impossible to tell which of the countless files are clean and which are tainted. makes you wonder.. if aliens and trojans share tips on how to hide from stupid sheeple and abduct and molest or ruin financially peeps who accidentally discover them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 makes you wonder.. if aliens and trojans share tips on how to hide from stupid sheeple and abduct and molest or ruin financially peeps who accidentally discover them.If I may digress a bit here, it reminds me of problems that have sprung up from what is commonly refered to as drug interactions. Combining these drugs have in the past resulted in some very unexpected side effects. Now, apply this same logic to the complexity now occuring at every level of intranet usage. I think I can safely predict that, we are going to see some very unexpected side effects being generated. Weather this view is popular or not, I believe that along with the evolutionary trend present in the intranet, there may exist hidden evolutionary systems within it. The greater the complexity of the intranet, the greater the possibility for a relative consciousness of sorts to emerge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 ! This is a great site if you want to find a place to start exploring the topic: http://www.generation5.org/ Hey Buffy, great link, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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