Deepwater6 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Water supply pollution is, IMHO, the most immediately serious detrimental effect of fracking. The problem, and its most obvious solution, is not much different from that arising from some other troublesome fuel extraction techniques, such as mountaintop removal coal mining: previous safe/healthy human use water is being made unsafe/healthy, so needs to be made safe/healthy again, Ideally before its made unsafe. The stupid tragedy of this is that doing so isn’t technically or cost prohibitive. Individual home and small community wells need only be replaced with piped water supply systems, or in cases where homes are widely spaced, water truck-delivered cisterns. The latter is what some people I know whos water was ruined by MTRM have done, at their own expense. It seems to me that political vitriol has prevented addressing these problems as what they are – technical resource management challenges. Solutions don’t require new technology or government and business practices. Historically, most places originally got their water from wells, springs, and streams, but due to increased population density and water pollution, replaced these supplies with piped municipal systems. Compared to, say, the 1908-1913 LA Aqueduct project, present day solutions to water supply pollution due to fuel extraction appear technically trivial. Energy companies and government need to be compelled to address water supply quality with at least the same competence they did in the early 20th century US. Aqua Pennslyvania Water Company is headed by CEO Nick DeBenedictis. Mr DeBenedictis is very powerful in PA politics. He was asked by the recently elected Governor (Tom Corbert) to be on his transition team. It is widely speculated that DeBenedictis was instrumental in getting him into office. In an odd coincidence Aqua has secured many of the contracts to supply the millions of gallons of water needed by the companies for the fracking. They have also recently started buying up as many wastewater companies in the area presumably to cash in on cleaning up the back end of the process as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Water supply pollution is, IMHO, the most immediately serious detrimental effect of fracking....Energy companies and government need to be compelled to address water supply quality with at least the same competence they did in the early 20th century US. well at least today the most immediate problem may be the earthquakes in oklahoma. 2 more have struck just since my last post. >> usgs3.7 2011/11/06 17:52:34 35.547 -96.819 5.0 7 km ( 4 mi) S of Sparks, OK3.3 2011/11/06 17:52:34 35.547 -96.819 5.0 7 km ( 4 mi) S of Sparks, OK as to government's role, a complete study of fracking & groundwater pollution is not due for a year or two. EPA Submits Draft Hydraulic Fracturing Study Plan to Independent Scientists for Review / The draft plan is open to public comment ...The SAB [science Advisory Board] plans to review the draft plan March 7-8, 2011. Consistent with the operating procedures of the SAB, stakeholders and the public will have an opportunity to provide comments to the SAB during their review. The agency will revise the study plan in response to the SAB’s comments and promptly begin the study. Initial research results and study findings are expected to be made public by the end of 2012, with the goal of an additional report following further research in 2014. ... meantime the big energy corporations are running political adverts on tv urging voters to "stop the EPA" while governor perry of texas has purposefully violated government standards for years. vitriol is one word for that i suppose, but not the one(s) i would use. !@$$~@%%~!!!!#$@%!#^%! :doh: anyway, while moving to a municipal source sounds good, it is an expense that wouldn't be necessary if the pollution didn't happen in the first place. also, it seems to me that a municipal supply is not agriculture friendly because of the added expense to farmers as well as the municipal suppliers whether the farmer is required to remove the gas or the municipality. then there is the problem of what to do with that removed gas. if it's simply vented it is just adding another greenhouse gas load to an already troublesome weight. while methane occurs naturally in many wells, such is not the case with the current problem in pennsylvania. Science Says Methane in PA. Water Is from Drilling, Not Natural Causes Methane does occur naturally in water wells, and it is not uncommon in Pennsylvania water. But state officials long ago determined that the methane bubbling up in Dimock's wells was the result of the disruptive drilling processes taking place adjacent to the wells. The gas that typically is found naturally in water wells comes either from methane deposits somewhere near the earth's surface, or from the decomposition of bacteria (this is called biogenic methane). Scientists have tested the molecular composition of the methane found in Dimock and determined that it came from the Devonian layer of shale, thousands of feet below the surface. In geologic geek-speak, it's called "thermogenic," meaning it is essentially the same kind of gas that the energy companies are drilling for. ... then there is the growing evidence that geothermal drilling is causing earthquakes. >> How Does Geothermal Drilling Trigger Earthquakes? Despite the promise of cheap, clean power, geothermal energy development may be on shaky ground. There have been rumblings from residents and scientists alike that drilling deep to tap naturally occurring heat could cause bigger earthquakes. Already on edge about temblors, northern California locals are eying an expansive new geothermal project proposed by a company called AltaRock that's going to be boring down more than two miles (3.2 kilometers). The area near the town of Anderson Springs—about 90 miles (150 kilometers) north of San Francisco—is home to natural geothermal vents (nicknamed The Geysers by early visitors who saw the steam vents there) and has been exploited for its natural energy-generating capacity for the better part of the last century. Starting in the 1970s, as technology improved, engineers started to crank up the production levels. Small earthquakes began shortly thereafter. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Aqua Pennslyvania Water Company is headed by CEO Nick DeBenedictis. Mr DeBenedictis is very powerful in PA politics. He was asked by the recently elected Governor (Tom Corbert) to be on his transition team. It is widely speculated that DeBenedictis was instrumental in getting him into office. In an odd coincidence Aqua has secured many of the contracts to supply the millions of gallons of water needed by the companies for the fracking. They have also recently started buying up as many wastewater companies in the area presumably to cash in on cleaning up the back end of the process as well. speaking of the back end, the water used in the fracking process is a pollutant as well as a cause of earthquakes. arkansas has taken steps to put an end to some of the practices of injecting this wastewater back into gas wells. 'course they haven't stopped the gas drilling, they just shifted the burden of the environmental damage to other states. Arkansas commission votes to ban wells EL DORADO, Ark. – The Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission on Wednesday voted to ban wells for the disposal of natural gas drilling fluids from a region where hundreds of earthquakes have struck, a move officials said was necessary to prevent a potential catastrophe. Commissioners voted 6-0 to close a disposal well between Greenbrier and Enola in the Fayetteville Shale, an area rich in natural gas that stretches across the state. The commission also voted 7-0 to issue a moratorium on new disposal wells in a 1,150-square-mile segment of the shale in central Arkansas north of Conway, the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette reported....With a moratorium, companies would have to truck the fluids to injection wells elsewhere in Arkansas or in Oklahoma or Texas, Commission Deputy Director Shane Khoury told The Associated Press after Wednesday's vote. About 730 disposal wells are active in the state, he said. The commission pinpointed four wells in central Arkansas that it said needed to be closed to prevent earthquakes. Those wells are near a fault system that has spawned dozens of earthquakes this year. A magnitude-4.7 earthquake in February near Greenbrier was the most powerful to hit the state in 35 years. After two of the four stopped operating in March, there was a sharp decline in the number of earthquakes. In the 18 days before the shutdown, there were 85 quakes with a magnitude 2.5 or greater, but there were only 20 in the 18 days following the shutdown, according to the state Geological Survey. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 ...Energy companies and government need to be compelled to address water supply quality with at least the same competence they did in the early 20th century US. :thumbs_up i was compelled by your comment to get some info to put my oft referenced USGS (Unites States Geological Survey) into your context. i think these government folks do a great service. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up United States Geological Survey @ wikiThe United States Geological Survey (USGS) is a scientific agency of the United States government. The scientists of the USGS study the landscape of the United States, its natural resources, and the natural hazards that threaten it. The organization has four major science disciplines, concerning biology, geography, geology, and hydrology. The USGS is a fact-finding research organization with no regulatory responsibility. A bureau of the United States Department of the Interior, it is that department's sole scientific agency. The USGS employs approximately 8,670 people[3] and is headquartered in Reston, Virginia. The USGS also has major offices in Lakewood, Colorado (Denver Federal Center), and Menlo Park, California. The motto of the USGS is "Science for a changing world."[4] HistoryPrompted by a report from the National Academy of Sciences the USGS was created by an act of Congress on March 3, 1879. It was charged with the "classification of the public lands, and examination of the geological structure, mineral resources, and products of the national domain." This task was driven by the need to inventory the vast lands added to the United States by the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 and the Mexican-American War in 1848. Clarence King, the first director of USGS, assembled the new organization from disparate regional survey agencies. After a short tenure, King was succeeded in the director's chair by John Wesley Powell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 the oklahoma quakes have slowed to a trickle and one has to wonder if so have the injections of fluids into wells in the area. (for the safety of the equipment, of course. :doh:) anyway, i finally found a mention of just how many wells that might be in the area of the swarm. :thumbs_up earthquake prediction -like earthquakes themselves- always takes place between the hammer & the anvil. ;) :hammer: Fracking may be to blame for Oklahoma earthquakes @ washingtonindependent.com ...According to the Associated Press, there are 181 such injection wells in the vicinity of Saturday’s Oklahoma quake and Sunday’s aftershocks. AP also reported Oklahoma typically only experienced about 50 earthquakes a year until 2009 when that number spiked dramatically. Last year there were 1,047 small quakes in the area, prompting the installation of seismographs. The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) is now seeking more data on the weekend quakes in Oklahoma, a state whose panhandle region borders southeastern Colorado, where earthquakes this summer shook area residents in an area with natural gas drilling. In August, Las Animas County, Colo., experienced a 5.3-magnitude quake, followed by a 5.8-magnitude quake in Virginia that was felt in Washington, D.C. Those quakes also prompted questions about fracking operations and injection wells. “That process can cause very small earthquakes, but the fracking process doesn’t really, we think, induce large earthquakes,” USGS scientist Mike Blanpied said in a video chat at the time. “The thing that can induce larger earthquakes is the high-pressure waste fluid injection that’s done in some places.”..."Just to be clear, the connection between fracking and fluid injection and earthquakes is an area of active research and really we’re only starting to learn about how those things are connected,” Blanpied told reporters in late August. The USGS points to Colorado for the most infamous case of an injection well being linked to an earthquake. The U.S. Army had been disposing of toxic fluids up to 12,000 feet underground at its Rocky Mountain Arsenal near Denver but had to shut down the well after a 5.5-magnitude earthquake and several aftershocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 usgs has a new side-bar faq on earthquakes caused by injection wells. i am quoting just 1 of the 9 questions they have covered. FAQs - Earthquakes Induced by Fluid Injection ...Q: Are earthquakes induced by fluid-injection activities always located close to the point of injection? A: No. Given enough time, the injected fluids can migrate substantial horizontal and vertical distances from the injection location. Induced earthquakes commonly occur several kilometers below the injection point. In some cases, the induced earthquakes have been located as far as 10 km (6 mi.) from the injection well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 then there is the matter of geothermal plants and quakes. just noticing quite a swarm of quakes the last few days in the immediate environs of the geysers geothermal generating complex. Map Centered at 39°N, 123°WEarthquake List for Map Centered at 39°N, 123°W: Update time = Tue Feb 14 2:34:05 UTC 2012 i grabbed a frame shot of the map as it is constantly updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 just had one up here in norcal, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 just had one up here in norcal, i saw that. :thumbs_up a 5.6. if you felt it you can contribute to science by reporting it here. >> Did You Feel It? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DSUSYstrings Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states This site has potential fracking areas, meaning there is venture speculation in these areas. It also shows where there have been fracking with negative results on nearby communities. Aside from the fact that we know this does damage that could cause catastrophic events, it may tend to confuse studies about global warming. Notice one of the venture speculation areas is in the Yellowstone area. I mean... I mean... they've got a lot of damn gall. (Of course I'm a French guy, so I've got a lot of Gall, too :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states This site has potential fracking areas, meaning there is venture speculation in these areas. It also shows where there have been fracking with negative results on nearby communities. Aside from the fact that we know this does damage that could cause catastrophic events, it may tend to confuse studies about global warming. Notice one of the venture speculation areas is in the Yellowstone area. I mean... I mean... they've got a lot of damn gall. (Of course I'm a French guy, so I've got a lot of Gall, too :D) mon dieu! :lol: excellent page. :thumbs_up i see oklahoma has evaded inclusion on that map. while i did find that there were injection wells near the quakes i have been reporting on, i can not find if that work was suspended coincident with the quakes subsidence. (all geologic puns intended. ;) ) for easy viewing, here's the map from your link: Edited March 30, 2012 by Turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DSUSYstrings Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 mon dieu! :lol: excellent page. :thumbs_up i see oklahoma has evaded inclusion on that map. while i did find that there were injection wells near the quakes i have been reporting on, i can not find if that work was suspended coincident with the quakes subsidence. (all geologic puns intended. ;) ) for easy viewing, here's the map from your link: This page and the map may predate the Okie event. Oui. Allons donc, Mon Dieu! Is it any wonder people are concerned about the park caldera? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) This page and the map may predate the Okie event. Oui. Allons donc, Mon Dieu! Is it any wonder people are concerned about the park caldera? :rolleyes: looking at the detailed descriptions of the 2 "fraccidents" nearest the park, it is air & groundwater pollution that resulted from fracking in Wyoming. given the frequent normal quake activity in the park i think it would be difficult to connect nearby fracking with any quakes there. even if there was an eruption in the future it would be a tough call and in that case the cause would be far down the list of concerns. :ebomb: just a clarification that it has not been a single "event" in oklahoma, rather a series of quakes. whether these quakes constitute a "swarm", which is a series of quakes where later quakes are larger than the initial one, or a multiple "shock-aftershock" series wherein later shocks are smaller than initial ones, is arguable. the quakes haven't stopped altogether, whether or not the nearby fracking has. Oklahoma quake this week: Magnitude 2.5 - OKLAHOMA in case you missed it, the usgs quake preparedness site currently has an faq sidebar on the fracking/quake correlation. >> Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Earthquakes Induced by Fluid Injection Edited March 30, 2012 by Turtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DSUSYstrings Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 looking at the detailed descriptions of the 2 "fraccidents" nearest the park, it is air & groundwater pollution that resulted from fracking in Wyoming. given the frequent normal quake activity in the park i think it would be difficult to connect nearby fracking with any quakes there. even if there was an eruption in the future it would be a tough call and in that case the cause would be far down the list of concerns. :ebomb: just a clarification that it has not been a single "event" in oklahoma, rather a series of quakes. whether these quakes constitute a "swarm", which is a series of quakes where later quakes are larger than the initial one, or a multiple "shock-aftershock" series wherein later shocks are smaller than initial ones, is arguable. the quakes haven't stopped altogether, whether or not the nearby fracking has. Oklahoma quake this week: Magnitude 2.5 - OKLAHOMA in case you missed it, the usgs quake preparedness site currently has an faq sidebar on the fracking/quake correlation. >> Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Earthquakes Induced by Fluid Injection Good usgs link. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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