Cuauhtzin

El español escrito es igual para todos los hispanoparlantes, los modismos salen a la hora de hablarlo, pero probablemente todos podamos entender el sentido de todos facilmente... asi que por eso no te preocupes

The good old Tenochtitlan. Its foundation is supose to be in 18 july in 1325, is difficult to separate the truth from the myth in the foundation. The leyend told us that the Aztecs (from aztlan) were in a peregrination, the last of this 13 tribes, the mexhicas (meshicas) was guided by Huitzilipochtli (god of war, hunt and asociated to the Mexhicas) to a swamp were they would find a Eagle devorating a serpent. Exist a discution about the interpretation of this leyend, because seems a little difficult to belive that in the mesoamerican logic, an eagle (representing the power and wisdom from heavens or the mystic world), would be fighting with the serpent (a representation for the terrenal wisdom). -Because this, there aro some other theorys that the eagle and the serpent are really talking, or that the eagle is "feathering" the serpent. The city was founded in the lake of Texcoco, and at first they were obligated to take the part of the lake that the other cultures there doesnt want. At first as subordinates to other more powerful lords, the Mexhicas beguin with some alliances and wars that eventually put the as the dominant power in all mexican valley. They form the tripple alliance, and under that context Tenochtitlan was born. (From wikipedia) The spanish express awsome by the cronist that came to the city in the XVI century, they tell about the enorumus of the Mexhica capital and they great organization of the social functions of it. Many of Cortés soldiers did not know any other city as huge as this. One sight to Tenochtitlán could had show a lot of canoes (60 thousand in a normal activity day) going and coming from the center to the periferias of the lakes and a city with more than 50 great buildings that were seen over the houses that were generally of one floor. it was cross side to side by three long and wide avenues that extend themselves to firmground: To the north was Tepeyacac and beguin in the gate of Cuauhquihuac; to the west was from Tlacopan and goes to the bridge known as Chichimecapan; The south was from Ixtapalapa and cross the gate of Tepatzinco that was divided by the mayor temple, two acequias, the acueducts of Ahuízotl and Acuezacatl to the hight of Acatlan, and it finish to the lake Tlamacoyan. The canals were used to the transport of ships made from totoras. Some of them were used for the trash and other for the manor that was used as fertilizant in the chinampas. There were more or less one thousand people dedicated to the cleaning of the streets. Bernal diaz del Castillo comments his surprises to find bathrooms in the personal houses, in the public market and in the roads. The canals wew cross by bridges of wood and in the night were retire to regulate the water... (corrientes?) of the lake and as a military strategy. Even the lake of texcoco was a saltwater, the city was surrounded of freshwater because the acueducts distributed by the Mexhicas and that conect water from the rivers to that feed the lake. The city counted with two acueducts that had to canals, Bernal diaz describe them as the "wide as a buey" this let the canal maintain in operation when they give maintainence to the other. This water was used to wash and clean, they used to take two bath at day, and it was reported that Montecuzoma II was used to take 4. They used the rooth of Coplaxcocotl (Saponaria americana) as soup (Jabón) and the rooth of metl to wash clothes. The symetry of the city was mantein by the Calmimilócatl, that supervises every construction and looke that the streets and canals were not invaded by constructions. The social and economic organization of the people of the time was altépetk, each one has calpullis, they´re local base. 4 principal calpullis of tenochtitlan were cuepopan, azcalco, Moyotla, Zoquiapan, and form 1473, Tlatelolco. each one had its own personality, because the artists were agroup in one calupulli and compite against other calpullis. In the case of the festivitys, each calpulli try to be the best. In the actual day, its called calupulli to the organization form sourronding the catolic temples, and in the popular festivitys compite each other. Each calpulli was asigned to a fertile area to the agriculture; The habitants of each calpulli were divided in seed, harvest those lands, This was to make stronger the feelings between the neiborhood of the calpullis. This form os posetion was comunal and it persist in some places of modern México. By the centurys, the peasents had to fight against goverment and the landproperties to be still independent. Each calpulli had its oun Tianquiztli (market). actually almost in all México its called "tianguis" to the little markets that put one day in the weekend, known as "mercado sobre ruedas" in other latin american conuntrys. Although, the market of the calpulli there was a principal one, named Tlatelolco. Cortés report that this market was twice as big as the city of Sevilla and there were 60.000 people of persons buying and selling everyday. Bernardo de Sahagún give us a number of 20.000 and 40.000 in festivitys days. Here finish my bad transalation of wikipedia xD. Another interesting thing, is that education was obligatory, and there were three type of institutions. Calmecác were the sons of high class were educated by the sieges tlamantini to be warriors, priests and governants. Tepolchcalli, were sons of the macehuales (the middle class) were send to learn "oficios". Cuicuacalli, place dedicated to the dance, sing and art preparation. Tenochtitlan population is a debate theme. Some ones said that it was of 500 thousand people, other crhoist take it to the million. (there are some ones who talk about more than a million and a half). Its to much to tella bout Tenochtitlán...

i really dont understand, maybe i cant detect double sense and sarcasm in english, im not really sure. well if that happens with one or two, maybe y can nderstand.. but if this is all professors, maybe you are not SO "brilliant"... And well, im not sure what kind of funding is that thay you are talking about that they give free education to every foreing they see, because, well "im foreign" and its not easy to get "free funding education"

and the problem there is because...? United states of north america is a nation strongly of inmigrants. The U.S. has take a lot of advanteges from the Brain Robbering (fuga de cerebros?). always with the discurss of the land of liberty and democracy, and iquals... what were you waiting for? All countrys have funds for foreing students, and those who achieve that priviliges are because they have earn it (or al very very lucky son´s of a person with good realtionships). If you said that intelligent americans could be using that funds.. what are you concerning for?, if they are good students they can afford a scholarchip (beca?).

thanks JMJ, I really dont know anything about how much iron and oxygen and things like that plants need, but i can help mor ein the chistory, cultural and techinques. Im going to do a little research and i post a thread, with some other i had in mind. I have been a little ausent because school and ohter activitys, i hope return in sunday XD

Freeztar: Yes, is more complex than national fercor, but i explain it from my point of view. For each of that mexican, i can tell you about 10 mexicans that like to live in México. As i see, if that people want to get to the U.S. they can take his malinchista butt there, thats not a reason to became an indepent nation to a U.S. colonny. they do it to control de monopoly of drugs, they take bands, they do not take down the really big criminals, they fight against the people who is in drugs because they dont have many options. DFinitibly disturbed: Do you know that a lot fo people from sudamerica and centroamerica risk they´re lives to migrate to mexico? (and if you think the iligals that pass from mexico to U.S. have a difficult time, the ones that paas from guatemala and belize, have worst treat, and they have to fight against caimanes too -.-. and that doesent mean that guatemala and belize people want to be part of mexico. also, maybe you ignore this, but a lot, alot fo people that migrate to the U.S. do not want to live there. they want WORK there. The cultural differences are to many, the most of people that migrate is from the countryside, they work there like 10, 15 years, they buy trucks, tv, and a lot of things and they return with they´re money they have earn all those years and live the rest of they´re lives in a little town in mexico. I make my practice camp of the carrer in a town called, "valle de zaragoza" and it was part of the economy migrate to the U.S. some years and return with money and stuff to live here. Im nopt saying, is better or worst life there, its just different... well... if the U.S. dicide to do the things at its a fact it could anex mexico to his posesions. Probably they will send they´re tropps to kill 10 millions (more or less) of indians, under the excuse of narcotraffic, terrorism, or something like that. they will have a big problem eith mexican gangs here, with poilicial corruption, with appliying the federal laws they have there.If they do not anex Mexico from the last war, is because they knew it would be more probelms to them than benefits. And of course, you´re mexican friend will be death under a marine assault to chihuahua!,:eek: P.D. the only thing i would like to see is what the U.S, goverment would do in México D.F. Well, thats the imperialist way i know.

Well, im not sure about drugs legalize, not very against it, but i dont think thats gonna resolve the problem. The criminals are still going to control the markets, but instead of being in the underworld, they are going to be called Busnisses. I´m not sure of know the meaning of strained.. si something like "forced¿?", any way, in the cultural case they have not similaritys, but in the two states or two political forces trying to governate is whay i emphazises. (i dont know U.S., in mexico narcotraficantes are politic forces too -.- F...Ck politcis...)

thanks, im learning about how to quote, then the images would come muajajaja!, i hate technology -.- And well, what age are you?

Well, dude. Don´t take it personally, but you maybe think that because you live in the american lifestyle, probably you have been raised with some values, maybe not to exagerated as the cristian ortodoxes oy.. you understand me. What would you think if a Russian from the soviet union had tell you the same? México and the U.S. have different values, i can respect a lot fo american values, others not (and i think most of people in this forum are going to feel the same about my values). Simple things like sing your national himne, that you have inference in some way in your political life.. are little details that make the men die for their countrys. Yes, like 10 million of mexicans are in the U.S. working legal or illegaly (without count the chicanos and the ones who were bron there), but know what?, theres a lot of more mexicans in Mexico! I really aprecciate this: but probably i would give my life to defend my country for an invasion..................... well, a nation can not have to states and live in peace. You can see it in Mexico, you can see it in Israel (who i personally think they are invaders to palestine land). Is war, i was going to happen eventually because the political and the social relations between mexico and the U.S. Centro america produce and mexico become a bridge to pass the drug to the great consumer U.S.. Eventually Mexico became a producer and a consumer, and rencently the goverment of mexico (because evil reason we dont uderstand) decide to fight the narcotraffic. (The foght to the narcotraffic, i think you can understand it better if you compare ir as the fight agianst the phantom "terrorism". That paranoia, beguin and broke the social order. and yes, im totally agree, i really think U.S. goverment sucks, as mexican govermente really sucks. Im miss Emperor Santa anna:( ... Yes, and that support probably is vinculated with the new reforms to the TLC (tratado de libre comercio) that has debilitated mexican economy and selfsustainment to make mexico more productive for the international market, and not its own necesitys. Saludos

well, form the herbal medicine i have not much information, although i know a guy is making his licenciature tesis from the herbal medicine of the raramuris, and myabe i can gather some information about it. but i will make a thred to treat it properlly. When i reffer to the earthquakes i was not saying the en dof the 5 sun was coming, but more in a way the phenomenoms the aztecs will associete with the end of their sun and the mythologycal Cipactli. About, numerology and the geometry i do not understand it pretty much, y will read it with more calm in the night. And of course there are some theorys about the incas and their arquitecture, but when you look the buildings and you see the enviroment and that today maybe will be impossible, or at least to difficult to even try it to make something i like, that one only can marvel of this.. http://teamwork.jacobs-university.de:8080/confluence/download/attachments/19727038/machupichu_peru.jpg And well, of course there is mystacles in all this!, the not understanding is explain with magic, and magic is not more that the knowledge we ignore...

Well i see this thrad has some time without answer but i cannot stay quiet. I will lie if i say you i dont want to argue debate or polemyc, i love the three of them! First, We all have seen that amero has not been yet, praise the currency gods do not allowed it. As some as you say, and what im going to said represent my opinion of what most of latin american people feel, but not necesarily is the reality or the opinion of all. The problem with Amero and a Union of that way is that for experiencie, the U.S. does not give without take (and maybe is a rule for every nation), but as a 100% capital and industrial nation it takes more what it gives. The history of the latin american natios is one of constant struggle against imperialist nations. fromthe colonies against Spain and Portugal, to the fight for the right of manage our own goverments without the intervation of the France, England, Great Britain and of course, the United States. The problem becomes stronger when one of this potencys, decide to "help" one nation against another, to "help" them by taking down a dictator to put one that "please" more the interests of people (or i mean of the international market). The latin american nations, especially those in south america are "brother nations", a lot of them share the same heroes, martyrs and mother cultures. Is truth that many would like the ameros, but is really truth that many others would not allowed it, because that would mean to eventaully become a star more in the American flag. Maybe a lot of you love your nation and find a lot of ideals there, in your history... and that is okey, but as well, much of us, the latin american nations find other values, that represent us like people in our own countrys we have fight and died for. ... About some things you mention about mexican history. Agustin the Iturbide, he born as a "criollo", this means a spanish (but i think his mother was mestiza) born in the land of Nueva España (or México). He was first fighting against the independence, but then he join the insurgents, and he, without a drop of blood gather all the insurgent bands and proclame the independence. In my general opinion he was a great beguining and he could make great things, but eventually he couldnt fight againts the masonry that was very strong in mexican politics. From here beguins the intervation of the united states in the national life of mexico; There were two logias, the Scotish from europe, and the Yorkine from U.S. (you can imagine wich one won). The texas bussnises beguins with the u.s. trying to buy it to Iturbide, and other figures of power, because the negative form them it was clear that it wa snot going to be sold. the problems between Texas and México were for three main causes: 1- Mexico had a central goverment. And Santa anna was a.. how can i say it a... ¿Jerk? 2- Mexico give permision to every people, mexican and american to take land from Texas, ant to worke it (obviously, as all we know americans and europe inmigrants were the first to take the land, because in this time... well, mexico was huge!) 3- probably the most unkown and important. When Mexico became independent, the slavery was abolish (there was another "slavery" class), texans want they slaves, mexican goverment say no... and the struggle beguin. Why texas could have its independence so easily?... Santa anna was a coward and a jerk, the texas could be a lot of things like people that want slaves, but they were not cowards. When the U.S. put texas in its side, beguin the oportunity from them to take therest of the territorys they need. United states was industrious shinny and he has not war in his country, mexico for the other side had a lot of improductive land, huge territories, corruption legacy from spanish domain and the problem of hundreds of different indian cultures living there. There was a pact between U.S. and Mexico for the boundories of each nation, the U.S. try to put new bounderys give them more territory, mexican governet did not want it... and the rest is history. Well, i i make see the United state govermetn as evil... well.., probably it was, mexican goverment was evil too in that years (it still is). But this las paragraph is only mi opinion. ... So, this is my particular opinion, and i would want to hear the one of yours... I will like to note that this i write i dont copy from any book, but if some one wants to argue some point, facts or something like that, im open to that and to do it properly as it has to be done we the bibliography and things like that, Saludos damas y caballeros,

Hello people! Turtle: i thinked you were the native :) Well, about the 21 signs,m you are right, they are 20. And i have a incredible explication why are them 20. For the nahuatl the count system was bigecimal not decimal as we now to day. The calcoluos they made are based in the "20" because is a natural number. If you want an example count the number of fingers you have in your hands and feet. XD Well, the earthquake predictions form earthquakes are very effective, Haiti, perú, méxico, and the tsunamis (that are practically earthquakes). The earthquakes happen because the "Cipactli" a mythologycal likecocodrile monster who lives under the earth and when it moves the earth crumbles! I could not say it better maikeru, the observation of the skyes is the base of agricultural civilizations. As you said the structures of the maya and aztec were built with some amazing... (Mezclas¿?), but what i really found amazing is how de incas put stone with stone without concrete or anything to paste them, and they are still as strong as they were 500 years ago.

ok, maybe you could be right. Im not a mayan expert, and also im more familiarized with the nahuatl culture. Yeah!, The sun stone! In the center you can see Tonatiuh a solar "deity", his tongue is a sacrifice knife of pedernal. He also has to hands/claws holding human hearts. there are 4 images in the central circle, one of Quetzalcoatl (ehecatl), Tezcaltlipoca (the jaguar), tlaloc y Chalquihue. Each on corresponde to a passed ear or "sun". We are supposed to be in the 5 sun that is going to end with huge earthquakes! In the second circle you can saw 21 figures (i remember 21) each one for one day of the month. The stone is rounded by to fire serpents that are supposed to give movment to all the sun. for the Mexhicas, all was bassicly about movement, that gives life to everything, the blood in the sacrifies was suposed to be like fuel or food to the sun so it can be moving for a while.

Well, this si one of the first articles i read when i beguin studyng Cultural Antropology. I think you are going to aprecciate it, i like it alot, and give us an idea why we have to be careful when we talk about other cultures. Is like looking in a mirror! The anthropologist has become so familiar with the diversity of ways in which different people behave in similar situations that he is not apt to be surprised by even the most exotic customs. In fact, if all of the logically possible combinations of behavior have not been found somewhere in the world, he is apt to suspect that they must be present in some yet undescribed tribe. The point has, in fact, been expressed with respect to clan organization by Murdock (1949: 71).[2] In this light, the magical beliefs and practices of the Nacirema present such unusual aspects that it seems desirable to describe them as an example of the extremes to which human behavior can go. ¶ 1 Professor Linton [3] first brought the ritual of the Nacirema to the attention of anthropologists twenty years ago (1936: 326), but the culture of this people is still very poorly understood. They are a North American group living in the territory between the Canadian Cree, the Yaqui and Tarahumare of Mexico, and the Carib and Arawak of the Antilles. Little is known of their origin, although tradition states that they came from the east.... [4] ¶ 2 Nacirema culture is characterized by a highly developed market economy which has evolved in a rich natural habitat. While much of the people's time is devoted to economic pursuits, a large part of the fruits of these labors and a considerable portion of the day are spent in ritual activity. The focus of this activity is the human body, the appearance and health of which loom as a dominant concern in the ethos of the people. While such a concern is certainly not unusual, its ceremonial aspects and associated philosophy are unique. ¶ 3 The fundamental belief underlying the whole system appears to be that the human body is ugly and that its natural tendency is to debility and disease. Incarcerated in such a body, man's only hope is to avert these characteristics through the use of ritual and ceremony. Every household has one or more shrines devoted to this purpose. The more powerful individuals in the society have several shrines in their houses and, in fact, the opulence of a house is often referred to in terms of the number of such ritual centers it possesses. Most houses are of wattle and daub construction, but the shrine rooms of the more wealthy are walled with stone. Poorer families imitate the rich by applying pottery plaques to their shrine walls. ¶ 4 While each family has at least one such shrine, the rituals associated with it are not family ceremonies but are private and secret. The rites are normally only discussed with children, and then only during the period when they are being initiated into these mysteries. I was able, however, to establish sufficient [504 begins ->] rapport with the natives to examine these shrines and to have the rituals described to me. ¶ 5 The focal point of the shrine is a box or chest which is built into the wall. In this chest are kept the many charms and magical potions without which no native believes he could live. These preparations are secured from a variety of specialized practitioners. The most powerful of these are the medicine men, whose assistance must be rewarded with substantial gifts. However, the medicine men do not provide the curative potions for their clients, but decide what the ingredients should be and then write them down in an ancient and secret language. This writing is understood only by the medicine men and by the herbalists who, for another gift, provide the required charm. ¶ 6 The charm is not disposed of after it has served its purpose, but is placed in the charmbox of the household shrine. As these magical materials are specific for certain ills, and the real or imagined maladies of the people are many, the charm-box is usually full to overflowing. The magical packets are so numerous that people forget what their purposes were and fear to use them again. While the natives are very vague on this point, we can only assume that the idea in retaining all the old magical materials is that their presence in the charm-box, before which the body rituals are conducted, will in some way protect the worshiper. ¶ 7 Beneath the charm-box is a small font. Each day every member of the family, in succession, enters the shrine room, bows his head before the charm-box, mingles different sorts of holy water in the font, and proceeds with a brief rite of ablution.[5] The holy waters are secured from the Water Temple of the community, where the priests conduct elaborate ceremonies to make the liquid ritually pure. ¶ 8 In the hierarchy of magical practitioners, and below the medicine men in prestige, are specialists whose designation is best translated as "holy-mouth-men." The Nacirema have an almost pathological horror of and fascination with the mouth, the condition of which is believed to have a supernatural influence on all social relationships. Were it not for the rituals of the mouth, they believe that their teeth would fall out, their gums bleed, their jaws shrink, their friends desert them, and their lovers reject them. They also believe that a strong relationship exists between oral and moral characteristics. For example, there is a ritual ablution of the mouth for children which is supposed to improve their moral fiber. ¶ 9 The daily body ritual performed by everyone includes a mouth-rite. Despite the fact that these people are so punctilious [6] about care of the mouth, this rite involves a practice which strikes the uninitiated stranger as revolting. It was reported to me that the ritual consists of inserting a small bundle of hog hairs into the mouth, along with certain magical powders, and then moving the bundle in a highly formalized series of gestures.[7] ¶ 10 In addition to the private mouth-rite, the people seek out a holy-mouth-man once or twice a year. These practitioners have an impressive set of paraphernalia, consisting of a variety of augers, awls, probes, and prods. The use of [505 begins ->] these objects in the exorcism of the evils of the mouth involves almost unbelievable ritual torture of the client. The holy-mouth-man opens the client's mouth and, using the above mentioned tools, enlarges any holes which decay may have created in the teeth. Magical materials are put into these holes. If there are no naturally occurring holes in the teeth, large sections of one or more teeth are gouged out so that the supernatural substance can be applied. In the client's view, the purpose of these ministrations [8] is to arrest decay and to draw friends. The extremely sacred and traditional character of the rite is evident in the fact that the natives return to the holy-mouth-men year after year, despite the fact that their teeth continue to decay. ¶ 11 It is to be hoped that, when a thorough study of the Nacirema is made, there will be careful inquiry into the personality structure of these people. One has but to watch the gleam in the eye of a holy-mouth-man, as he jabs an awl into an exposed nerve, to suspect that a certain amount of sadism is involved. If this can be established, a very interesting pattern emerges, for most of the population shows definite masochistic tendencies. It was to these that Professor Linton referred in discussing a distinctive part of the daily body ritual which is performed only by men. This part of the rite includes scraping and lacerating the surface of the face with a sharp instrument. Special women's rites are performed only four times during each lunar month, but what they lack in frequency is made up in barbarity. As part of this ceremony, women bake their heads in small ovens for about an hour. The theoretically interesting point is that what seems to be a preponderantly masochistic people have developed sadistic specialists. ¶ 12 The medicine men have an imposing temple, or latipso, in every community of any size. The more elaborate ceremonies required to treat very sick patients can only be performed at this temple. These ceremonies involve not only the thaumaturge [9] but a permanent group of vestal maidens who move sedately about the temple chambers in distinctive costume and headdress. ¶ 13 The latipso ceremonies are so harsh that it is phenomenal that a fair proportion of the really sick natives who enter the temple ever recover. Small children whose indoctrination is still incomplete have been known to resist attempts to take them to the temple because "that is where you go to die." Despite this fact, sick adults are not only willing but eager to undergo the protracted ritual purification, if they can afford to do so. No matter how ill the supplicant or how grave the emergency, the guardians of many temples will not admit a client if he cannot give a rich gift to the custodian. Even after one has gained and survived the ceremonies, the guardians will not permit the neophyte to leave until he makes still another gift. ¶ 14 The supplicant entering the temple is first stripped of all his or her clothes. In everyday life the Nacirema avoids exposure of his body and its natural functions. Bathing and excretory acts are performed only in the secrecy of the household shrine, where they are ritualized as part of the body-rites. Psychological shock results from the fact that body secrecy is suddenly lost upon entry into the latipso. A man, whose own wife has never seen him in an excre- [506 begins ->] tory act, suddenly finds himself naked and assisted by a vestal maiden while he performs his natural functions into a sacred vessel. This sort of ceremonial treatment is necessitated by the fact that the excreta are used by a diviner to ascertain the course and nature of the client's sickness. Female clients, on the other hand, find their naked bodies are subjected to the scrutiny, manipulation and prodding of the medicine men. ¶ 15 Few supplicants in the temple are well enough to do anything but lie on their hard beds. The daily ceremonies, like the rites of the holy-mouth-men, involve discomfort and torture. With ritual precision, the vestals awaken their miserable charges each dawn and roll them about on their beds of pain while performing ablutions, in the formal movements of which the maidens are highly trained. At other times they insert magic wands in the supplicant's mouth or force him to eat substances which are supposed to be healing. From time to time the medicine men come to their clients and jab magically treated needles into their flesh. The fact that these temple ceremonies may not cure, and may even kill the neophyte, in no way decreases the people's faith in the medicine men. ¶ 16 There remains one other kind of practitioner, known as a "listener." This witch-doctor has the power to exorcise the devils that lodge in the heads of people who have been bewitched. The Nacirema believe that parents bewitch their own children. Mothers are particularly suspected of putting a curse on children while teaching them the secret body rituals. The counter-magic of the witch-doctor is unusual in its lack of ritual. The patient simply tells the "listener" all his troubles and fears, beginning with the earliest difficulties he can remember. The memory displayed by the Nacirema in these exorcism sessions is truly remarkable. It is not uncommon for the patient to bemoan the rejection he felt upon being weaned as a babe, and a few individuals even see their troubles going back to the traumatic effects of their own birth. ¶ 17 In conclusion, mention must be made of certain practices which have their base in native esthetics but which depend upon the pervasive aversion to the natural body and its functions. There are ritual fasts to make fat people thin and ceremonial feasts to make thin people fat. Still other rites are used to make women's breasts larger if they are small, and smaller if they are large. General dissatisfaction with breast shape is symbolized in the fact that the ideal form is virtually outside the range of human variation. A few women afflicted with almost inhuman hypermammary development are so idolized that they make a handsome living by simply going from village to village and permitting the natives to stare at them for a fee. ¶ 18 Reference has already been made to the fact that excretory functions are ritualized, routinized, and relegated to secrecy. Natural reproductive functions are similarly distorted. Intercourse is taboo as a topic and scheduled as an act. Efforts are made to avoid pregnancy by the use of magical materials or by limiting intercourse to certain phases of the moon. Conception is actually very infrequent. When pregnant, women dress so as to hide their condition. Parturi- [507 begins ->] tion takes place in secret, without friends or relatives to assist, and the majority of women do not nurse their infants. ¶ 19 Our review of the ritual life of the Nacirema has certainly shown them to be a magic-ridden people. It is hard to understand how they have managed to exist so long under the burdens which they have imposed upon themselves. But even such exotic customs as these take on real meaning when they are viewed with the insight provided by Malinowski [10] when he wrote (1948: 70): ¶ 20 Looking from far and above, from our high places of safety in the developed civilization, it is easy to see all the crudity and irrelevance of magic. But without its power and guidance early man could not have mastered his practical difficulties as he has done, nor could man have advanced to the higher stages of civilization.[11] ¶ 21 REFERENCES CITED Linton, Ralph 1936 The Study of Man. New York, D. Appleton-Century Co. Malinowsli, Bronislaw 1948 Magic, Science, and Religion. Glencoe, The Free Press. Murdock, George P. 1949 Social Structure. New York, The Macmillan Co. Source https://www.msu.edu/~jdowell/miner.html

im not sure who said that... but.. Its ridiculous, Quetzalcoatl its a nahuatl "deity" not a maya. the equivalent or more similar would be Kukulkan (I think they called him huracan in other maya mythology).

Yes, some of that things really make us thing.. but, well to affirm that this is a man on a spaceship... well I like to have the mind open, but i cant believe it without some more evidence xD. .......... Well this is what i know about mayan profecies, i cannot quote anything, because the mayans never said the would was going to end, and as i know they doesnt let us "7 mystic profhecys" . Turtle: i read the link you put there, and what the guy that is tlaking abour a book and the profecys and all that, i am almost sure he read the book of some one who invented the profhecys. The Maya (and most of the mesoamerican people) understand the world trough cycles, when a cycle finish a nother beguin, something like the 4 stations . The crops, the rituals, etc were all make in that cycles, for this they made a calendar (that the Mexhicas "aztecs" take). In the calendar there are some special dates, where a cycle finish and a new one beguin. As i know the mayan alpahbet (because the last investigations said that is something like an alphabet not Jeroglyphe) has not been decipher yet. There is a great confusion when people talk about the mayan calendar because they tend to confuse it with the aztec sun stone (That is not a calendar, si a stone where all the comsmovision is encrypted). The idea of each cycle or era finished with a cataclysm is from AZTECAS not maya.

Theres an excellent number in "Arqueologia mexicana" dedicated to the american pyramids, and ideas of how they do it. If i can get it, i would translate something of that.

Saludos, Ok my mistake i assume you were tlaking about a known place xD, and the more knew place is la zona del silencio. Were you are pointing is very close to tomochic (A rebelion was there in the past century, one that finish with a lot of blood). But check "la zona del silencio" in the web, you are gonna like it anyway. And cerro la cuevita is more like mountain/hill with the name of "little cave". It maybe have caves, maybe not.. xD Mmm.. talking about rocks and craters and geological formations... I have fotographs of some "giants foot prints" fosilised or something like that. My fahter took them several years ago in the sierra in a river with fossils and thinks like that. He said to me that they were human foot prints (some of normal size, others that in proportion would have to be 3, 3.5 meters tall). There were some paintings in a cave.... 1 meter : 3.24ft