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coldcreation

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  1. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Moontanman in Why Does Christianity Have Two Bibles?   
    First of all, this is a discussion that revolves around theology, not history, and so would be better appreciated in the Theology Forum rather than in the History Forum.
     
    Secondly, what you write above does not help explain why it is so difficult explaining human evolution to the faithful. The so-called mysteries of life are simply dealt with (in the bible) by piling on more mysteries of life. It is not an alternative to evolution at all.
     
     
     
    Just because half (or more) of the population believes that dolphins are fish does not make them fish.
     
    Maybe half the population should take a field trip to their local Natural History Museum to see the evidence for themselves, rather than take the word of their local prelate.
     
     
    CC
  2. Like
    coldcreation reacted to Buffy in The Digital Demise Of Darwinism   
    Thanks for giving an example computation that convinces you.
     
    Let me disabuse you of the argument.
     
    It is quite obvious from both your result and the fact that you state that it is a "trivial calculation" that you are using simple combined probabilities of INDEPENDENT EVENTS.
     
    "Independence" in probability means that the individual events are unrelated and do not effect one another. An example of this is coin-flips: while the chance of getting heads on 1 flip is 50% (0.5 probability) the chances of getting 10 heads in a row is very very low, [math] 0.5^{10} = 0.0009[/math]. That's how you get the absolutely astronomical odds upon which you base your argument in this quote.
     
    The problem is that changes to DNA are not at all independent:
     

    Changes to one base pair in a single generation are highly correlated to other base pair changes because they come from a common underlying cause. The changes can come from a flaw in the tRNA which causes similar transcription errors to occur during the transcription process
    Similarly, changes in environment in the cell, can cause common transcription errors that cause changes in multiple locations.
    Most importantly however is the need to recognize that DNA operates as if it has "subroutines", where there are different versions of subroutines throughout the DNA, normally in "junk DNA" segments. Changes to a single base pair can switch entire segments of DNA on and off.

    As a result, a single base pair change can cause a cascade of not only other changes, but changes that have seemingly "intelligent" consequences because of their sophistication. In the terminology of probability, the "random changes" to base pairs are NOT independent, and thus must apply Bayes Theorem to compute the combined dependent probabilities. To try to be brief, what Bayes is all about is that you end up with sets of dependent events where if they were independent would be virtually impossible, while when you take into account their dependence upon one another, the "impossible" outcome becomes "nearly certain to happen."
     
    But the important point here is that the application of "trivial" combination of independent probabilities is wholly and completely inappropriate to calculating the probabilities in the evolution of DNA.
     
    Doing so makes every conclusion you draw from such an argument utterly meaningless and invalid.
     
    Just because Behe and Dembski follow this path does not make it legitimate, in fact it is at the core for why most people who understand these things think of them as charlatans.
     
    I've read enough of Dembski to think that he may just be incapable of accepting that he's wrong. I've read enough and seen enough video of Behe to be convinced that he knows he's wrong but he also knows that if he admits it, his whole body of work comes tumbling down, and he's gotten very good at avoiding the issue and dissembling and sidelining when people try to pin him down on it. Some of the video of the Kansas court case is pretty amusing and if I have time to go back and look at it again, I'll try to point out some cases of this.
     
    The point I'm making here though is that the argument you make in the paragraph above is in the realm of "not even wrong" and will bring you nothing but grief around here, or any place else, because it indicates that either you wasted that 6 credits in probability and really didn't understand the section on "independent" probability and the application of Bayes Theorem, or you do understand it and like Behe, you're just trying really hard to repeat the same falsehood enough times so that the folks that don't understand it will think it's true.
     
     
    When a person cannot deceive himself the chances are against his being able to deceive other people, :phones:
    Buffy
  3. Like
    coldcreation reacted to modest in Objectivism Vs. Subjectivism In Morality   
    Yeah, yeah. Time necessitates that my response will be brief. Every sentence counts...
     
    The idea that 4-dimensional theories prove the existence of time is called spacetime substantivalism and it is an open question that has been debated for dozes, if not hundreds, of hours on this forum. You are addressing someone who can use spacetime to solve real world relativity problems and who has done so a number of occasions by request, again, on this forum. Time permitted I would heavily insult the arrogance your lack of knowledge takes. As it is, I just suggest you do some reading.
     
    Again, you're not paying any kind of attention. I said "I would be stupid to assume math doesn't work" and your answer "if math didn't work... blah.. blah..."? Of course it works. It doesn't prove it's universal. Look up "the problem of induction".
     
    I have to explain arithmetic in a few short words... uh...
     
    Arithmetic starts when someone says "every number has one unique successor" and everyone agrees. It is a convention. It is a way of defining a number line. The convention is defined by the Peano axioms. The axioms are true by definition. You asked earlier where morality is fundamentally, universally, set out as true. Where are the stone tablets that dictate them (allegorically speaking). The answer is that morality isn't so dictated to us by the universe, or god, or any other force. It is a convention that starts when we agree that causing suffering is bad and alleviating suffering is good. Number theory is no different. It is true by definition and no more than that.
     
    You won't find a number line in nature on which it is easy to show that one, and only one, number follows every other number.
     
    If that doesn't do it you could look up Godel's incompleteness theorem, and, probably more applicable, Tarski's undefinability theorem.
     
    As it is, arithmetic, like geometry, like first order logic, like morality, has this quality that they are human concepts. They are "attempts to make sense" (as someone I won't mention put it). They are true in the sense that they help us make sense of the world, but we can't prove they are true aspects of the world, because, as they say, "the map isn't the territory".... and so on... insert insults ad nauseum...
     
    ~modest
  4. Like
    coldcreation reacted to modest in Nothing   
    +1. We've got 'nothing' in common.
     
    ~modest
  5. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from belovelife in Nothing   
    I've been posting absolutely nothing here at Hypography for quite some time.
     
     
     
    CC
  6. Like
    coldcreation reacted to CraigD in Won't I Measure C As Being Slower   
    To avoid confusion, let’s restate this question very explicitly, as a thought experiment.
     
    Assume we have an apparatus that emits on command a brief laser light pulse that follows a 29979.2458 long path, in a near perfect vacuum, to arrive at a detector close to the emitter (the apparatus needs at least 1 mirror). At a typical near sea level location near the equator on Earth, at midnight, the elapsed time between the emission of the light pulse and its detection is measured with a precise clock of any kind, and found to be precisely 0.0001 s.
     
    The apparatus is then put in a spacecraft and placed at the Earth-Sun L2 point, which is about 53600000 m above sea level. The elapsed time between the emission and detection of its light pulse is again measured, and found to be precisely 0.0001 s.
     
    We conclude, therefore, that the speed of light in vacuum is the same at near sea level on Earth as at 53600000 m above sea level. Of course, this agrees with the postulate of Relativity that the speed of light is invariant, which applies to both the Special and General theory.
     
    Notice that it’s not necessary to calculate the time dilation of the clock at sea level and at the Earth-Sun L2 point. Because it’s a postulate, Relativity requires that the speed of light be constant in any local uncelebrated laboratory.
  7. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from CraigD in Corrections To Relativity Foundations   
    In the OP you posted a description of a book by the self-proclaimed creationist (a 1996 Templeton Prize Nominee) Robert A. Herrmann. His General Intelligent Design Theory (not to be confused with Einstein's General relativity theory) is an attempt to "transform God's thoughts into physical reality". His interpretation "shows that it is rational to assume that all physical-system behavior as investigated by science-communities is designed or controlled by intelligent agency." This, so the author claims, "is the first general solution to the problem of intelligent design." (Source: the author's professional biography)
     
    His goal is that theological concepts be investigated by means of the scientific method. Although Dr. Herrmann's techniques can be applied to all major theological doctrine, he chose to apply them to the Bible. Herrmann claims to have constructed a "mathematical structure that predicts and, hence, models scientifically all of the Godhead attributes described within the Bible". His objective is to increase our understanding of "God's created visible and invisible kingdoms." (Source)
     
     

    This is what lurks behind his nonstandard approach to relativity.
    The authors religious views (inseparable from his scientific views) are thus on topic, not off-topic as you claim.


     
     
    Indeed, the authors musings are "relative only to effects within an empty universe." But this universe is obviously not empty. Furthermore, he writes: "The effects can only be properly measured over local regions where the gravitational potential is considered to be constant and can, thus, be “factored,” so to speak, from the measurements. Measurements that might be taken by what could be considered as “large light-clocks” are not analyzed and could give different results. Predictions associated with ST for all of the alterations are based entirely upon very local measurements and uniform relative velocity. These predictions become less accurate when these conditions are altered." (Source)
     
    And the author writes: "...the results in this book do not overthrow the Einsteinian General Theory of Relativity. What has been altered is the very basic interpretation and foundations of the Einsteinian theory."
     
    Indeed, his secular and theological interpretations are nonstandard.
     
    In his article, God, as He is Biblically described, is a scientifically rational concept, the author gives the reasons why it is important that the rationality of this concept be established. "This significant result should be known by all of humankind. (This is a specific example of modern mathematical philosophy.) This paper defines the notion of the mathematical infinite and shows that, "although the strength of God's comparative attributes and intelligence can be modeled mathematically, the mathematics apparently cannot model an ultimate (i.e. absolute) bound for such strengths. The mathematics does imply that accepting such an ultimate bound is a rational hypothesis."
     
    During Creation Day-Four, the author writes, "there is a problem with scientifically relating starlight to the Biblical time-frame." In this article are two papers where the author claims to solve this starlight and time problem.
     
     
     

    Nonsence.
     
     
    CC


  8. Like
    coldcreation reacted to modest in Is religion a memetic disease?   
    :phones:
    "What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm?
    An idea! Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere."
    :phones:
     
    I saw inception recently and couldn't help think of this thread.
     
    The interesting thing is that ideas (religion included) usually don't become so widespread in a culture unless they are useful to some extent. Somewhere along the line a prey animal had the idea of running from a predator. Evolution picked up on that and now prey animals almost everywhere instinctively run from predators.
     
    The same instinct can be lost. Birds that are categorized as prey animals in the Galapagos don't run. You can approach them and pick them up. They lost that instinct because they ended up in a place where they had no natural predators.
     
    Perhaps religion is following this same synopsis. Religion could have been a very useful idea as far as motivating tribes into cultures—uniting and instructing people. But, society eventually became more secular. Divine commandments from Leviticus were trumped by secular laws and rational traditions. As that happened (and continues to happen), just like the birds in the Galapagos lost their instinct to flee, people could be losing their instinct toward religion.
  9. Like
    coldcreation reacted to Turtle in Bigger Brains/higher Conciousness   
    the apology is all well-and-good, but of little consequence if you continue on with your ways. as you know we have been over this before. your good-faith effort is required here; not just ours.
     
    on what i boldened of your statement, this is what i mean by saying you ignore bona fide information given in previous posts. scientific research has shown it is brain strucure -including, but not exclusive to, brain/body ratio- that determines intelligence, not "learning habits" whatever that means.
     
    above and beyond intelligence, the thread title invokes "conciousness". let's define that.
    source 
    so by definition 1. we could reasonably argue that a bee has some level of conciousness insofar as it appears aware of its environment by virtue of its observed reactions to environment. but by definition 2. there is no evidence/observation -or proposed observation iaao (i am aware of)- by which a bee or any animal other than humans has such a concious sense. ergo not only are humans more intelligent than the other animals, they have a higher conciousness. more hunekers per double-helix the strange loop asserted.
     
    find me a pod of dolphins conference calling to protest trawl fishing not only on their own behalf but on the behalf of the tuna as well. then we'll talk.
  10. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Moontanman in The Theory Of Devolution   
    From Moontanman's wiki link:
     
     
    Bold added.
     
    Clearly what you write is incomplete. Lankester was perhaps the first "biologist" to come up with the theory of devolution. But devolution was originally a creationist idea, first presented as an evolutionary mechanism in 1857 by a devout Catholic, not circa 1880-1910 (as you write).
     
    Whether the physician Bénédict More should be considered a biologist is irrelevant, so too is the possibility that Lankester may have been the first biologist to adopt the idea of devolution. Key, is that Morel (the devout Catholic) produced the hypothesis of devolution prior to Lankaster (in excess of 20 years prior). Lankester could have been aware of Morel's work, though Morel is not mentioned in Lankester's book: Degeneration: a chapter in Darwinism, 1880 (Lamarck is, however). In 1857 Morel published Traité des dégénérescences physiques, intellectuelles et morales de l'espèce humaine et des causes qui produisent ces variétés maladives, in which he explains the nature, causes, and indications of human degeneration. This book may not have been translate into English at the time, so it's excusable if Lankester was not aware that Morel published first. He may well have been oblivious to what was transpiring across the English Chanel.
     
    Interestingly enough, the idea of degeneration was not new, even at the time of Morel's publication (though he gave the expression a biological twist).
     
     
    Bold added.
     
     
    CC
  11. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Turtle in Favorite Quotes   
    Work! Ecstasy! Smash your brains! Chew, stuff yourself, gulp it down, mix it around! The bliss of giving birth! The crack of the brush, best of all as it stabs the canvas.
    - Max Pechstein
  12. Downvote
    coldcreation reacted to rocket art in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Just reminding English happens to be my 2nd language (while having to speak 2 local languages), so it may be a bit of an effort for me to express my views sometimes, not to mention having to sometimes discuss Physics topics here :blink:
     
    I was actually referring to the Present being under "subjectivity" to human act i.e. choices, decisions, etc., not necessarily the Present being subjective.
     
     
    that's actually the limitation I'm referring my concern about.
     
     
    Yup.
     
     
    I'm really very curious how tangible matter behaves when subjected to extremes of sorts, just as the phenomenon being discussed here when a possible planetary collision occurred that would literally knock off a planet from its regular orbit, unceremoniously thrown off to another orbit, could it be how certain molecular particles behave in this abrupt anomaly in Space that inevitably affects Time as well, such that by that time objects record a "rapid aging" of sorts, hence the Deep timeline that manifests in Uniformitarianism that recorded even hundreds of millions of years, but neither discounts Catastrophism as well relative to the phenomenon discussed on this thread, in which its exclusion in explaining the phenomenon may be the "intangible cause" I was referring to.
     
    ain't that a heck of a postulation indeed :huh: :blink:
     
     
    I believe I have addressed this with mention to the ancient knowledge of the Sumerian and Samal tribe in Mindanao that referred to a possible planetary collision that resulted with the formation of Asteroid Belt, esp. with the presence of C-type carbon-rich asteroids, my revolutionary rockety B) perspective of Continental Drift that debunks the Expanding Earth Theory, and its geological timeline that may possibly prove it.
  13. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Turtle in The Theory Of Devolution   
    From Moontanman's wiki link:
     
     
    Bold added.
     
    Clearly what you write is incomplete. Lankester was perhaps the first "biologist" to come up with the theory of devolution. But devolution was originally a creationist idea, first presented as an evolutionary mechanism in 1857 by a devout Catholic, not circa 1880-1910 (as you write).
     
    Whether the physician Bénédict More should be considered a biologist is irrelevant, so too is the possibility that Lankester may have been the first biologist to adopt the idea of devolution. Key, is that Morel (the devout Catholic) produced the hypothesis of devolution prior to Lankaster (in excess of 20 years prior). Lankester could have been aware of Morel's work, though Morel is not mentioned in Lankester's book: Degeneration: a chapter in Darwinism, 1880 (Lamarck is, however). In 1857 Morel published Traité des dégénérescences physiques, intellectuelles et morales de l'espèce humaine et des causes qui produisent ces variétés maladives, in which he explains the nature, causes, and indications of human degeneration. This book may not have been translate into English at the time, so it's excusable if Lankester was not aware that Morel published first. He may well have been oblivious to what was transpiring across the English Chanel.
     
    Interestingly enough, the idea of degeneration was not new, even at the time of Morel's publication (though he gave the expression a biological twist).
     
     
    Bold added.
     
     
    CC
  14. Like
    coldcreation reacted to Moontanman in The Theory Of Devolution   
    Cave fish or any other animal losing it's eyesight is not regression. It is adaptation to it's environment. Eyes are not useful to animals that live in caves, food is so difficult to obtain in that environment the growth of eyes is a determent to their existence.
     
    To call it regression shows a deep misunderstanding of what adaptation by natural selection really is. From our perspective it might seem like a regression but it is a positive adaptation. Growing eyes takes energy that is best expended growing the organism, since eyes convey no advantage to animals that live in the dark losing them is not regression. Blind cave animals are better adapted to their low nutrient environment.
     
    http://ncse.com/cej/8/2/caves-evolution
     
    In the context of the OP of this thread it is a creationist idea and most definitely not his original idea...
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
     
  15. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Qfwfq in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Nonsense.
     
    The statues could not have existed long before his subjects arrived to settle the island.
     
    Estimated dates of initial settlement of Easter Island ranges between 300 to 1200 CE, coinciding with the arrival of the first settlers in Hawaii. The statues were carved from 1100–1680 CE, according to rectified radio-carbon dates.
     
    (Source, Hunt, T. L.; Lipo, CP (2006). "Late Colonization of Easter Island". Science 311 (5767): 1603–6. doi:10.1126/science.1121879. PMID 16527931. And Hunt, Terry; Lipo, Carl (2011). The Statues that Walked: Unraveling the Mystery of Easter Island. Free Press. ISBN 1-43915031-1.)
     
     
     
    The statues were carved by the Polynesian colonizers of the island, primarily between 1250 CE and 1500 CE. Completed statues were moved to ahu mostly on the coast. They were subsequently erected with red stone cylinders (pukao) on their heads. The actual carving of each statue certainly require tremendous effort and resources. The island was treeless by the time the Europeans first visited, thus the movement of the statues remained a mystery. Since then, pollen analysis has established that the island was almost totally forested until 1200 CE. The tree pollen disappeared from the record by 1650, around the same time the statues stopped being made.
     
    The quarries and stone tools seem to have been abandoned abruptly, leaving many completed sculptures outside the quarry awaiting transport and almost as many incomplete statues still in the quarries. During the nineteenth century this led to conjecture that the island was the remnant of a sunken continent and that most completed moai were under the sea.
     
    That idea has long been debunked.
     
    It is now understood that some statues were rock carvings never intended to be completed. Some were incomplete because inclusions (imperfections or lumps of hard rock) were encountered; in that case the carvers would abandon a partial statue and start a new one. Some completed statues were meant to remain at Rano Raraku. Some were simply incomplete when the sculpture-building came to an end (circa 1500-1650 CE).
     
    (Source, Steven R Fischer. The island at the end of the world. Reaktion Books 2005 ISBN1 86189 282 9. And, Katherine Routledge (1919) The Mystery of Easter Island ISBN 0-932813-48-8 pages 181-186)
     
     
     
     
    CC
  16. Like
    coldcreation reacted to Turtle in Favorite Quotes   
    iron rusts from disuse; water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. ~ leonardo da vinci
  17. Downvote
    coldcreation got a reaction from rocket art in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Nonsense.
     
    The statues could not have existed long before his subjects arrived to settle the island.
     
    Estimated dates of initial settlement of Easter Island ranges between 300 to 1200 CE, coinciding with the arrival of the first settlers in Hawaii. The statues were carved from 1100–1680 CE, according to rectified radio-carbon dates.
     
    (Source, Hunt, T. L.; Lipo, CP (2006). "Late Colonization of Easter Island". Science 311 (5767): 1603–6. doi:10.1126/science.1121879. PMID 16527931. And Hunt, Terry; Lipo, Carl (2011). The Statues that Walked: Unraveling the Mystery of Easter Island. Free Press. ISBN 1-43915031-1.)
     
     
     
    The statues were carved by the Polynesian colonizers of the island, primarily between 1250 CE and 1500 CE. Completed statues were moved to ahu mostly on the coast. They were subsequently erected with red stone cylinders (pukao) on their heads. The actual carving of each statue certainly require tremendous effort and resources. The island was treeless by the time the Europeans first visited, thus the movement of the statues remained a mystery. Since then, pollen analysis has established that the island was almost totally forested until 1200 CE. The tree pollen disappeared from the record by 1650, around the same time the statues stopped being made.
     
    The quarries and stone tools seem to have been abandoned abruptly, leaving many completed sculptures outside the quarry awaiting transport and almost as many incomplete statues still in the quarries. During the nineteenth century this led to conjecture that the island was the remnant of a sunken continent and that most completed moai were under the sea.
     
    That idea has long been debunked.
     
    It is now understood that some statues were rock carvings never intended to be completed. Some were incomplete because inclusions (imperfections or lumps of hard rock) were encountered; in that case the carvers would abandon a partial statue and start a new one. Some completed statues were meant to remain at Rano Raraku. Some were simply incomplete when the sculpture-building came to an end (circa 1500-1650 CE).
     
    (Source, Steven R Fischer. The island at the end of the world. Reaktion Books 2005 ISBN1 86189 282 9. And, Katherine Routledge (1919) The Mystery of Easter Island ISBN 0-932813-48-8 pages 181-186)
     
     
     
     
    CC
  18. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Turtle in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Nonsense.
     
    The statues could not have existed long before his subjects arrived to settle the island.
     
    Estimated dates of initial settlement of Easter Island ranges between 300 to 1200 CE, coinciding with the arrival of the first settlers in Hawaii. The statues were carved from 1100–1680 CE, according to rectified radio-carbon dates.
     
    (Source, Hunt, T. L.; Lipo, CP (2006). "Late Colonization of Easter Island". Science 311 (5767): 1603–6. doi:10.1126/science.1121879. PMID 16527931. And Hunt, Terry; Lipo, Carl (2011). The Statues that Walked: Unraveling the Mystery of Easter Island. Free Press. ISBN 1-43915031-1.)
     
     
     
    The statues were carved by the Polynesian colonizers of the island, primarily between 1250 CE and 1500 CE. Completed statues were moved to ahu mostly on the coast. They were subsequently erected with red stone cylinders (pukao) on their heads. The actual carving of each statue certainly require tremendous effort and resources. The island was treeless by the time the Europeans first visited, thus the movement of the statues remained a mystery. Since then, pollen analysis has established that the island was almost totally forested until 1200 CE. The tree pollen disappeared from the record by 1650, around the same time the statues stopped being made.
     
    The quarries and stone tools seem to have been abandoned abruptly, leaving many completed sculptures outside the quarry awaiting transport and almost as many incomplete statues still in the quarries. During the nineteenth century this led to conjecture that the island was the remnant of a sunken continent and that most completed moai were under the sea.
     
    That idea has long been debunked.
     
    It is now understood that some statues were rock carvings never intended to be completed. Some were incomplete because inclusions (imperfections or lumps of hard rock) were encountered; in that case the carvers would abandon a partial statue and start a new one. Some completed statues were meant to remain at Rano Raraku. Some were simply incomplete when the sculpture-building came to an end (circa 1500-1650 CE).
     
    (Source, Steven R Fischer. The island at the end of the world. Reaktion Books 2005 ISBN1 86189 282 9. And, Katherine Routledge (1919) The Mystery of Easter Island ISBN 0-932813-48-8 pages 181-186)
     
     
     
     
    CC
  19. Like
    coldcreation reacted to pamela in Favorite Quotes   
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined
    Henry David Thoreau
  20. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from pamela in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Nonsense.
     
    The statues could not have existed long before his subjects arrived to settle the island.
     
    Estimated dates of initial settlement of Easter Island ranges between 300 to 1200 CE, coinciding with the arrival of the first settlers in Hawaii. The statues were carved from 1100–1680 CE, according to rectified radio-carbon dates.
     
    (Source, Hunt, T. L.; Lipo, CP (2006). "Late Colonization of Easter Island". Science 311 (5767): 1603–6. doi:10.1126/science.1121879. PMID 16527931. And Hunt, Terry; Lipo, Carl (2011). The Statues that Walked: Unraveling the Mystery of Easter Island. Free Press. ISBN 1-43915031-1.)
     
     
     
    The statues were carved by the Polynesian colonizers of the island, primarily between 1250 CE and 1500 CE. Completed statues were moved to ahu mostly on the coast. They were subsequently erected with red stone cylinders (pukao) on their heads. The actual carving of each statue certainly require tremendous effort and resources. The island was treeless by the time the Europeans first visited, thus the movement of the statues remained a mystery. Since then, pollen analysis has established that the island was almost totally forested until 1200 CE. The tree pollen disappeared from the record by 1650, around the same time the statues stopped being made.
     
    The quarries and stone tools seem to have been abandoned abruptly, leaving many completed sculptures outside the quarry awaiting transport and almost as many incomplete statues still in the quarries. During the nineteenth century this led to conjecture that the island was the remnant of a sunken continent and that most completed moai were under the sea.
     
    That idea has long been debunked.
     
    It is now understood that some statues were rock carvings never intended to be completed. Some were incomplete because inclusions (imperfections or lumps of hard rock) were encountered; in that case the carvers would abandon a partial statue and start a new one. Some completed statues were meant to remain at Rano Raraku. Some were simply incomplete when the sculpture-building came to an end (circa 1500-1650 CE).
     
    (Source, Steven R Fischer. The island at the end of the world. Reaktion Books 2005 ISBN1 86189 282 9. And, Katherine Routledge (1919) The Mystery of Easter Island ISBN 0-932813-48-8 pages 181-186)
     
     
     
     
    CC
  21. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from pamela in Favorite Quotes   
    A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality.
    ~John Lennon
  22. Like
    coldcreation reacted to pamela in Favorite Quotes   
    The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.
    Terry Pratchett
     
  23. Downvote
    coldcreation reacted to rocket art in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    I will try to rephrase my other statements. I will be using instead the argument on the term Planet X in which arguments to its possible existence are already discussed by the Scientific Community.
    http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/KuiperBelt/Quaoar.html
    http://www.newscientist.com/special/unknown-solar-system
     
    I will also reiterate the need for views on geological time frame relative to all other factors, to incorporate other possible theories that will unify into a common quest for Truth. Einstein's Relativity Theory that considers the thought process as Twin Paradox, with mentioning of possible effect such as of of organic decay relative to varying cosmic space-time dimensions needs to be opened up. It had been said that while on Earth it would take 24 hours to rotate, it actually takes only about 8 minutes when an observer views the planet from the moon.
     
    I will also summarize the totality of the mysteries, the intangibility that this thread may touch into such as myths and legends of our ancestors, eventual metaphysics, unexplained anomalies even of ET intervention (culprits or otherwise), the wonders of gravity, even our very own truths, as CONSCIOUSNESS.
     
    Also, as mentioned there is the need to first dwell into the concern between Catastrophism and Uniformitarianism, in which it seemed the latter had been an established norm from among Scientific Communities.
     
     
    These other factors should be discussed, otherwise the concern as to the mainstream Scientific Community, whether it continually seeks for TRUTH, sometimes awful or stranger than fiction it may seem, rather than mere convenience, will be put in question.
     
     
     
     
    I have found this website that speaks relative to Catastophism:
     
    Catastrophism is contrary to Uniformitarianism, the accepted geological doctrine for over 150 years. Uniformitarianism states that current geologic processes, occurring at the same rates observed today, in the same manner, account for all of earth's geological features. As present processes are thought to explain all past events, the Uniformitarianism slogan is "the present is the key to the past." Uniformitarianism ignores the possibility of past cataclysmic activity upon the surface of the earth. James Hutton first purposed the doctrine of uniformity in his publication, Theory of the Earth (1785). Sir Charles Lyell endorsed Uniformitarianism in his work, Principles of Geology (1830). Uniformitarianism is fundamental to Lyell's geologic column. Uniformitarianism and the geologic column, both of which assume uniformity, have been disproved in recent years by geologic features such as poly-strata fossils, misplaced fossils, missing layers and misplaced layers (including layers in reverse order or "ancient" layers found above "modern" layers). Furthermore, observed cataclysmic events such as the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 have validated Catastrophism. Prior to the introduction of Uniformitarianism, Catastrophism was the accepted geological doctrine. Once again, Catastrophism is becoming accepted as an accurate interpretation of earth's geologic history.
    http://www.catastrophism.net/
  24. Downvote
    coldcreation reacted to rocket art in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Here was one of the Flood Myths that originated from Bukidnon, Mindanao Island:
     
     
    The Flood Story
    Bukidnon (Mindanao)
     
    A long time ago there was a very big crab which crawled into the sea. And when he went in he crowded the water out so that it ran all over the earth and covered all the land.
     
    Now about one moon before this happened, a wise man had told the people that they must build a large raft. They did as he commanded and cut many large trees, until they had enough to make three layers. These they bound tightly together, and when it was done they fastened the raft with a long rattan cord to a big pole in the earth.
     
    Soon after this the floods came. White water poured out of the hills, and the sea rose and covered even the highest mountains. The people and animals on the raft were safe, but all the others drowned.
     
    When the waters went down and the raft was again on the ground, it was near their old home, for the rattan cord had held.
     
    But these were the only people left on the whole earth.
    http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/flood-phil.html
     
     
     
     
    An interesting description that eerily witnessed such ancient apparition on the horizon. The "crab" allegory somehow reminded me of this illustration on the planet Nibiru, which did looked like a "crab":
     

     
    It had been said that the Flood occurred at a later (10,500 BC) rendezvous with Nibiru wherein its gravitational pull caused the huge glaciers during the Ice Age accumulated on Earth's Poles to crumble thereby causing, literally, tidal waves that eventually inundated most of Earth's surface.
     
     
     
    Very interesting, almost similar with Sumerian and Biblical version of the Flood. A footnote reads below:
     
    The similarity of this to the biblical Story of the Flood leads us to suppose that it has come from the neighboring Christianized or Mohammedanized people and has been worked by the Bukidnon into the mould of their own thought. However, the flood story is sometimes found in such a guise that it cannot be accounted for by Christian influence.
     
    Indeed. Even the "crab" description was independent of the Sumerian version. the Sumerians instead portrayed those images in the description of Nibiru as "wings." Even the use of material in creating the "raft" was endemic, rattan.
     

     
     
    These may however, provide connection between Indigenous knowledge in Mindanao and the ancient Sumerians, considered by western tradition as the oldest civilization that appeared after the Flood. These may manifest further evidences that indeed the Indigenous Peoples in Mindanao did have repository of ancient knowledge, the necessary foundations of a Humanity evolving towards Tribal Consciousness as they spread to all corners of the Globe and brought with them the knowledge of their ancestors.
     
    Very interesting. I myself is in the process of discovering these insights culled from personal researches and from those shared by my likeminded acquaintances. It's unfortunate that these were not even mentioned or discussed from among the mainstream educational system in our country, where mediocre textbooks often tend to be Manila-centric that ignored these vast wealth of heritage from Mindanao
  25. Like
    coldcreation got a reaction from Moontanman in Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao   
    Nonsense.
     
    Your claim that geological data supports the sunken continent myth is absurd.
     
    All of the geological, topographical, tectophysical and paleomagnetic evidence (orientations of glacial striations along with the fossil pattern record) supports the theory of continental drift and oceanic-oceanic plate convergence occurring over timescales of hundreds of millions of years. This process in exceeding slow, it is ongoing and measurable today still.
     
    Subduction occurs on the edges of continental plates. It is not due to the sinking of large sheets of the earths crust (or mantle) where a mythical continent once vanished.
     
    The seafloor is spreading, not sinking.
     
    Note the Pacific rim area illustrated below:
     
     
     

     
     
     
    The age of the oceanic crust, in the above image, is illustrated by color. The gradation from red to blue indicates increasing age. Blue represents crust created some 180 million years ago. Red indicates oceanic crust created quite recently on the geologic time scale. Center black lines delineate the mid-oceanic ridge volcanic rift zones. (Source: U.S. Geological Survey)
     
     
    Here is a Quicktime animation.
     
    This animation shows the three-dimensional structure of a "mid-ocean ridge", where two of the Earth's tectonic plates are spreading apart. The Earth's mantle wells up between the separating plates and melts, which feeds magma to active volcanoes along the spreading ridge. This ridge is adjacent to a "subduction zone", which is another setting where active volcanoes form, but due to plates converging instead of spreading apart. Both spreading ridges (like Explorer Ridge) and subduction zones (like the Marianas Arc) make up parts of the Submarine Ring of Fire. Animation by Clay Hamilton and Bill Chadwick. (Source: oceanexplorer.noaa.gov)
     
     
     
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