The Next Generation of Hypography

[Southtown]

Hi Southtown!

I posted those ideas even though I was aware that the manpower requirements would be restrictive.

On the other hand, you might be underestimating the number of people who'd gladly help move us in that direction. People who don't necessarily like to argue, those who are more contemplative.

So it might be a way to engage a whole new class of contributor and we might be surprised at what happens.

Good point. After all, everyone's a critic. =P

 

The bulletin board is already making between 15 and 30 queries per page view. A few more won't be much of a bother.

That's good news.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

killean:

No one should worry about if or how we program any features.

thank you.

If what you want to see involves cleaning, upkeep or refereeing, then all I have to say is why don't you ask an admin to become a slav.. err, moderator?

I'd volunteer for that if I thought we had the right tools for the job. We don't yet, which is my point. The definition of insanity is to repeat an action over and over again even if it fails every time. And there are those who embrace that activity as a type of argument.

You have a better chance at joining the staff then of the dev team creating AI.

We don't need AI, we need GI (guided intelligence).

I mentioned hierarchical views of a thread. That applies to both antecedents to a statement as well as conclusions based upon a statement. If a requirement of X is Y, then X is true only if Y is true. That would be going back in the logical chain. We don't have any way to show that relationship now. We need it. That would give the threads motion and a way to establish meaning to them. If Y is dubious, then so is X.

I want a way to methodically go from one point to another, forward or backward. We'd need a way to post experimental evidence for a conclusion as well as evidence contradictory to that conclusion. But the beauty about providing that kind of tool would be that the methodology behind a particular test would be illuminated for all to see. We'd require that all of that be posted. Not just the conclusions of a particular experiment, all the data from it too.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble so much.

[Killean]

I'd volunteer for that if I thought we had the right tools for the job. We don't yet, which is my point.

Exactly what tools are we missing for a message board? Messages are allowed to be placed freely under a topic, the staff can edit, delete, move anything they please should the situation call for it.

 

Hierarchical view huh? vB has that option, but the current thread view is more pleasing to the eye for most. I will translate what it is you want then for when we review this thread later:

The ability for users to change between the legacy and hierarchic thread view systems.

[Tormod]

Southtown is correct in his assumption that I want an automatic tag system. I think a manual classification is a neat idea but not feasible - a lot of people here have problems just choosing the right forum for a thread, so imagine the issues they would face with a list of categories for their post.

 

I think a tag based system, where a thread starter can manually enter some keyword tags (like einstein, relativity, speed of light), and each poster can add relevant keywords if desired (tachyons, ftl, relativity), then we can use this to create tag clouds and lists where the most common tags are shown in relatively larger letters or higher up on a list. If we in addition to this can find some sort of automated system for finding the most common words in a thread, then we might have a good solution.

 

When a user then clicks on a tag (or phrase), a search is performed and the threads matching the tag is performed. A manual tag search where you can search for multiple tags would also be possible (einstein, ftl).

 

The end solution would be a more user friendly way to find relevant posts, to identify topics already discussed, to see what is the hottest topic now, and to avoid too many threads on any given topic (or at least reduce the amount).

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Exactly what tools are we missing for a message board? Messages are allowed to be placed freely under a topic, the staff can edit, delete, move anything they please should the situation call for it.

 

Hierarchical view huh? vB has that option, but the current thread view is more pleasing to the eye for most. I will translate what it is you want then for when we review this thread later:

The ability for users to change between the legacy and hierarchic thread view systems.

I thought we were talking about the next generation of stuff. For what the forum is doing now, what you have is probably perfect.

However, I don't believe in argumentation for its own sake. It's just a means to an end or it's pointless.

Discussion is very noble if the underlying reason is identifying truth. If it isn't done for that, well, then it would seem to be a waste of time at best. And don't get me wrong here, most of the time the moderators and staff do a great job keeping things going in that direction. But there's a limit to what they can do given the format we currently have (which I freely admit is the best there is right now).

I make my wishes known because I think there is a grain of truth in the reasons I want them. And I'm trying to get us to move in that direction. I don't have a formal way of presenting them, just this discussion. And like some internet discussions, sometimes it just degrades into well, noise.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Southtown is correct in his assumption that I want an automatic tag system. I think a manual classification is a neat idea but not feasible - a lot of people here have problems just choosing the right forum for a thread, so imagine the issues they would face with a list of categories for their post.

 

The end solution would be a more user friendly way to find relevant posts, to identify topics already discussed, to see what is the hottest topic now, and to avoid too many threads on any given topic (or at least reduce the amount).

I agree with all of this and from your position as the captain of all referees and of trying to keep the cacaphony organized, you're moving in the only feasible direction given....

But from where I sit, I'd like you to consider the possibility of sometime in the future creating a second type of thread/discussion which requires a formal approach. At least, keep it in mind. Maybe there isn't a way to do it. But then again, maybe there is.

[Southtown]

Did you see my post suggesting a refereed debate forum? Is that along the same lines as what you're ideas?

[infamous]

These are all good ideas, but I think Killean's point was that we have some BIG thoughts for Hypography. We want to transcend beyond just being a forum, and try to incorporate new ideas that would make our site much, much more than it is today.

 

The question is, what sort of features do we need for Hypography to be THE site for you?

I'm not sure how feasible this request would be to implement but I would like to see Hypography enlist the support of reputable authorities regarding a varity of different subjects. I realize it would be out of the question for us to expect tutorledge from someone like Penrose outside of just viewing his published lectures. I nevertheless dream of the day when we might have someone on staff with credentials of recognized credit. This is not to say that we have no members of outstanding quality at present, just that a recognized figure would be excellent for the forum. Hopefully none of our brilliant members misunderstand my point, we have a wealth of gifted people contributing right now. Nevertheless, wouldn't it be fantastic if someone of notable authority could participate on a regular bases here at Hypography?

 

Daydreaming.............Infy

[C1ay]

These are all good ideas, but I think Killean's point was that we have some BIG thoughts for Hypography. We want to transcend beyond just being a forum, and try to incorporate new ideas that would make our site much, much more than it is today.

 

The question is, what sort of features do we need for Hypography to be THE site for you?

 

Perhaps a science wiki with reference material. Maybe a section with something like "science project recipes" that students can reference. In general, resources to help advance the knowledge of science.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

C1ay:

Perhaps a science wiki with reference material. Maybe a section with something like "science project recipes" that students can reference. In general, resources to help advance the knowledge of science.

Tormod:

These are all good ideas, but I think Killean's point was that we have some BIG thoughts for Hypography. We want to transcend beyond just being a forum, and try to incorporate new ideas that would make our site much, much more than it is today

.

 

Now we're talking survival of the fittest! Someone will take this format to the next level and beyond and there are definitely some advantages to being on the bleeding edge. If a putz like me can imagine what it could be like, well, then there are people already working on it.

 

In his book, "The Psychology of Self Esteem", Nathanial Brandon gave a quote that has stuck in my head and won't leave. I have modified it by adding numbers.

 

1. What do you know?

2. How do you know it?

3. And so what?

 

Boys, that's the Holy Grail.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Did you see my post suggesting a refereed debate forum? Is that along the same lines as what you're ideas?

No, I didn't. But that's facing in a good direction and would be a start. The only problem I have with the concept of a 'debate' is that the emphasis is on 'winning' it, not necessarily on clarifying anything. In my view, most debate victories are pyhric and often only bring ashes to the table. Now, if you say "guided discussion', I'd like that.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Infy:

I'm not sure how feasible this request would be to implement but I would like to see Hypography enlist the support of reputable authorities regarding a varity of different subjects. I realize it would be out of the question for us to expect tutorledge from someone like Penrose outside of just viewing his published lectures. I nevertheless dream of the day when we might have someone on staff with credentials of recognized credit. This is not to say that we have no members of outstanding quality at present, just that a recognized figure would be excellent for the forum. Hopefully none of our brilliant members misunderstand my point, we have a wealth of gifted people contributing right now. Nevertheless, wouldn't it be fantastic if someone of notable authority could participate on a regular bases here at Hypography?

I didn't know you were religious Infy. :) We all have feet of c1ay and have to turn on the bathroom fan.

The argument from authority is probably responsible for 99% of the pain and suffering on the planet. I, for one, distrust it.

[cwes99_03]

Maybe a section with something like "science project recipes" that students can reference.

 

I really like that. A section with suggested experiments, guidlines for performing those experiments, and suggested materials for use in those experiments.

 

We had some old experimentation books in our lab in college. You could go back to those old books and look up neat old experiments for testing different laws and rules.

 

I do however think there is something to be said for figuring out how to test things on your own given a set of equipment (or even thinking up your own set of equipment that you would need to make such a test.)

[Tormod]

We are moving forward with the planning of Hypography 2.0 and I can promise exciting new features. All the input so far has been great.

 

We can't do *everything* at once, and at first we are going to focus on

 

1) a complete overhaul of the site at Hypography: Science for everyone which will include developing it into a social network-type site, but focused on what Hypography is today (with a more expanded topic range, but still related to science, technology and some "other stuff" :doh: ).

 

2) more ways for people to interact with Hypography outside of the forums. Social bookmarks is just one aspect, the ability to post articles and blog about science or educational topics is another.

 

3) A rehauled search engine, with both tag-based search and a complete, topic-based search is in the works (I can't promise this for the first version, but we will look very thoroughly at transitional concepts). One major issue we're facing is the sheer amount of data (150,000 posts, thousands of articles, thousands of links - and the new system is set to increase this quite fast).

 

4) Tutorials and guides - and we need YOU to help us write them. Please get in touch with ideas.

 

5) Quizzes. We will pick up the activity we had a few years back and start regular quizzes again. Again we will need YOUR help.

 

6) Advanced boomarking features. Build lists of bookmarks (to external sites) and share, get bookmarks from others and organize them by topic. This will be an excellent research tool. A system to check for dead links will be implemented.

 

7) A new and unique front page with customizable modules, where you can choose to monitor the stuff you want. It might be the only start page you will ever need. :hihi:

 

And...throw us some more bones and we will chew on them.

[Killean]

We would also like to thank everyone who has participated in this thread for the past month. You have given us many great ideas, and beg that you try not to be too disappointed if you do not see your suggestions when the official release is announced. But we will try our best, which is the most anyone can ask of volunteers and Mr. Family Man T.

 

That being said, as a sort of last chance to voice your opinions kind of deal, I would like to propose a live chat this Sunday, January 14th. I will be available from afternoon to evening. If anyone would like to come by and discuss the future of Hypography, or just to socialize with the neighborhood, join us then.

[Tormod]

Yes, good suggestion K-man. What time should we try to do it at? Since most Americans are in church on Sunday maybe early morning? Like 9am EST?

[Killean]

Well, since I have nothing better to do, and a strict non-believer, I will be available from noon until whenever. So I would say, show up as you please.