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Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:


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#647 pamela

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:26 PM

Oh Macphee, please tell me that this is indicative of a Brit's sense of humour
If not, well then, see below


Does anyone else share my impression, that fat people usually seem less intelligent than slim people.
When you think of the people you know, aren't most of those you'd class as "intelligent", slim, not fat?

No, I know many intelligent people who are overweight

This might be because dumb people don't have the sense not to eat unhealthy junk food. So they eat it, and it makes them get obese. Whereas smart people, realise how unhealthy junk food is. So they don't eat it, and stay slim.

If so, then the epidemic of obesity sweeping the USA, has an obvious explanation - the US population is getting dumber. This results partly from the failure of the US educational system. Plus other things, that can't be mentioned here.

Erm, There are many factors that contribute to obesity; you should read the thread in its entirety. I am curious, what other things?

Could the point be this - obesity shows Natural Selection in action. The fat fools die, the slim smarts survive?

...

#648 JMJones0424

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

MacPhee, consistency is only a virtue when paired with accuracy.

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It's been pointed out to you before that correlation does not equal causation. You have not proposed or provided any evidence for a mechanism that actually links obesity to intelligence. Here's a helpful test. If the logic you use to come to a conclusion is indistinguishable from the logic used to conclude that global warming is caused by a lack of pirates, you are committing a logical fallacy.

EDIT:
Let's assume that your observation holds over a larger sample size, and that there is an inverse correlation between IQ and BMI. What does this information tell us?

Nothing, other than that there is a correlation. It could be that low intelligence is responsible for obesity. It could be that obesity is responsible for low intelligence. It could be that a third variable, or many more variables, are responsible for both low intelligence and obesity. Or, it could be entirely coincidental. You have given no reason to conclude one over any of the other possibilities.

Natural selection is the nonrandom process by which biological traits become either more or less common in a population as a function of differential reproduction of their bearers. While it is easy to show that obesity is a risk factor for many medical conditions that cause premature death, I'm not sure that the death is early enough to significantly affect an obese person's ability to reproduce. Therefore, it isn't clear to me that natural selection is likely to be a driving factor in the increase of obesity in the way that you have described it, in that "the fat fools die, the slim smarts survive." In fact, were your proposition to be true, one would expect obesity rates to fall, not rise.

Edited by JMJones0424, 04 January 2012 - 10:15 PM.


#649 Qfwfq

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:08 AM

If so, then the epidemic of obesity sweeping the USA, has an obvious explanation - the US population is getting dumber. This results partly from the failure of the US educational system. Plus other things, that can't be mentioned here.

Is there plenty of research done which gives any substance to this? Otherwise you need to back up your claims because your nexus is weak.

Could the point be this - obesity shows Natural Selection in action. The fat fools die, the slim smarts survive?

You ought to read up on natural selection and how it works. Are there any statistics comparing offspring of fat and slim people? You should also realize that here, you are claiming somewhat the opposite cauality that you ventilated above.

Make up your mind as to whether obesity is caused by poor education or by genetically inheritable stupidity. In the latter case and according to your argument on natural selection, the population in question ought to be getting less stupid, not increasingly. :shrug:

#650 Guest_MacPhee_*

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:32 AM

Thanks to Pamela, JMJones, and QFWFQ for your courteous replies.
The replies show an intellectual power, and a clarity of thought, that leads me to infer, that you are all slim people. Am I right? I can imagine slim people being on Hypography. But not fat ones - they'd be more concerned with feeding their bellies, than their minds.

And that might explain the historical opinion/prejudice, call it what you will, which discerns an inverse correlation between expanding the body, and expanding the mind.

The mind, if it grows, is apt to generate new thoughts. These may endanger the established order. Whereas the burgeoning body, just looks forward to meals, which satisfy the body, and make its corpulent owner complaisant and safe.

"Let me have men about me that are fat;
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o'nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look:
He thinks too much - such men are dangerous"


Which is why thin people cause more disturbances, and scientific advances, than fat people. Can anyone point to a famous fat scientist?

#651 pamela

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:35 PM

Thanks to Pamela, JMJones, and QFWFQ for your courteous replies.
The replies show an intellectual power, and a clarity of thought, that leads me to infer, that you are all slim people. Am I right? I can imagine slim people being on Hypography. But not fat ones - they'd be more concerned with feeding their bellies, than their minds.

i seriously cannot tell if you are joking or not so erm,yeah i am slim, but i have leveled 17 cookies in the last 24 hours whilst feeding my mind :P

And that might explain the historical opinion/prejudice, call it what you will, which discerns an inverse correlation between expanding the body, and expanding the mind.

The mind, if it grows, is apt to generate new thoughts. These may endanger the established order. Whereas the burgeoning body, just looks forward to meals, which satisfy the body, and make its corpulent owner complaisant and safe.

"Let me have men about me that are fat;
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o'nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look:
He thinks too much - such men are dangerous"


Which is why thin people cause more disturbances, and scientific advances, than fat people. Can anyone point to a famous fat scientist?

:P
are you serious? there's a bazillion scientists out there and i am sure i have never seen a census done on fat/slim scientists
you're killing me macphee

#652 paigetheoracle

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

Just something to think about. Wheelchair users - are they affected by this epidemic of being overweight and does their state affect their weight to any greater degree than ordinary people normally? In other words as a group who can't exercise through walking or using their legs in other ways, does this affect weight gain as would be expected, if more exercise was the answer?

#653 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 06:51 PM

Thanks to Pamela, JMJones, and QFWFQ for your courteous replies.
The replies show an intellectual power, and a clarity of thought, that leads me to infer, that you are all slim people. Am I right? I can imagine slim people being on Hypography. But not fat ones - they'd be more concerned with feeding their bellies, than their minds.

And that might explain the historical opinion/prejudice, call it what you will, which discerns an inverse correlation between expanding the body, and expanding the mind.

The mind, if it grows, is apt to generate new thoughts. These may endanger the established order. Whereas the burgeoning body, just looks forward to meals, which satisfy the body, and make its corpulent owner complaisant and safe.

"Let me have men about me that are fat;
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o'nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look:
He thinks too much - such men are dangerous"


Which is why thin people cause more disturbances, and scientific advances, than fat people. Can anyone point to a famous fat scientist?

Don't get out, read, or watch documentaries much do you? Off the top o my head Einstein, Edison, Da-Vinci, Darwin, Narlikar, Bell, Fermi, even Kaku seems to be carrying a bit more ballast these days. Good grief! At the rate your goin your going to get a bad case of athletes mouth and trench foot!!!

#654 Nitack

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:26 PM

It's actually really as simple as Calories-in vs. Calories-out. The laws of physics win... shocker!

http://www.scienceda...20221125020.htm

#655 paigetheoracle

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

Nitack, good point. Bored minds eat - interested ones act / think. It's not just the amount you eat but how it is distributed during the day. If you snack regularly, small meals are more easily digested. If you eat big meals, more is stored as fat in the same way any backlog is stored. Travel broadens the mind - sitting broadens the behind. Also a large slice of energy goes to feeding the brain - if you're not using it, where does it get delivered?

Definite, I wouldn't call the scientists you mentioned grossly overweight, although that it what I 'thought' this thread was about? (God that lost my a good pound in weight!). My wife's sister has Alzheimer's and has put on a lot of weight because she does nothing all day, not even think (Not meant as an insult just a statement of fact). She also has a brother in Norway, who we haven't seen for a while and who also has the same disease. He though wasn't grossly overweight because he is (and always has been) full of nervous energy: He now has no memory either but seemingly can't sit at peace still. She is sedate and overweight - he is fidgety (overstimulated) and slim. Is there a connection here?

#656 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:25 PM

Try Googling
"fat obesity virus cause"
and see what you get

Virus blamed for obesity epidemic
Virus blamed for obesity epidemic - Science - Specials - smh.com.au
By Deborah Smith Science Editor
March 18, 2006



AS MANY as one in five Australians may have contracted a virus linked to obesity. Blood tests on 2000 Australians, carried out in the US, showed about 20 per cent of them had been exposed to a virus called Ad-36, which some researchers say can cause weight gain.

The idea that fatness is catching is controversial. However, Richard Atkinson, Emeritus Professor of Medicine at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, who did the testing, said a fat virus could help explain the worldwide epidemic of obesity.

"I believe obesity is a complex disease of many causes, one of which is viral infection," he said. How Ad-36 caused fatness was not known exactly, but it had been detected in fat cells in people and animals. In the laboratory it stimulates cells that are pre-fat cells to become fat cells.


Actually it seems to be about obesity in general. And the ones I mentioned appear to be/have been a good 20 or 30lbs overweight...which really isn't saying much seeing as I am 70 over now (245 whereas I should be 175-185 for my height and bone structure) and my Dr. was shocked as hell to hear I weighed 315 at the last visit...so much so that he insisted on personally weighing me to make sure. (he was certain there was no way I weighed that much)

Obesity is an excess proportion of total body fat. A person is considered obese when his or her weight is 20% or more above normal weight.


Edited by DFINITLYDISTRUBD, 28 February 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#657 paigetheoracle

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:42 AM

Actually it seems to be about obesity in general. And the ones I mentioned appear to be/have been a good 20 or 30lbs overweight...which really isn't saying much seeing as I am 70 over now (245 whereas I should be 175-185 for my height and bone structure) and my Dr. was shocked as hell to hear I weighed 315 at the last visit...so much so that he insisted on personally weighing me to make sure. (he was certain there was no way I weighed that much)


I am overweight but wouldn't consider myself grossly overweight. I walk the dogs everyday at least two good walks and a third round the block trip. What kind of exercise do you get now and are you retired / still working? It would be good to see if middle age spread, includes just the retired /unemployed or all groups of people (blue collar and white). We need to get down to specific groups, to see if they fall into particular zones (lorry drivers, office workers, tree fellers and other occupations that are sedentary/ active employments).

I've seen an American import to The UK and he was definitely in the grossly overweight category as is a Glaswegian actor, now on Scottish Television. Is it a virus? I don't know but it is obviously in reaction to something. As a society we are eating more and exercising less but is that all there is to it? If it is caused by a virus - what is the advantage to it of making people grossly overweight, unless it is harvesting cells/ byproducts and if it is side effect(anti-histamine?),what is causing it?

#658 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

I am overweight but wouldn't consider myself grossly overweight. I walk the dogs everyday at least two good walks and a third round the block trip. What kind of exercise do you get now and are you retired / still working? It would be good to see if middle age spread, includes just the retired /unemployed or all groups of people (blue collar and white). We need to get down to specific groups, to see if they fall into particular zones (lorry drivers, office workers, tree fellers and other occupations that are sedentary/ active employments).

I've seen an American import to The UK and he was definitely in the grossly overweight category as is a Glaswegian actor, now on Scottish Television. Is it a virus? I don't know but it is obviously in reaction to something. As a society we are eating more and exercising less but is that all there is to it? If it is caused by a virus - what is the advantage to it of making people grossly overweight, unless it is harvesting cells/ byproducts and if it is side effect(anti-histamine?),what is causing it?


I'm a steel fabricator, spend my entire day "exercising" 8 to 10 hours on my feet lifting steel ranging from 20 to 100lbs somewhere in the neighbourhood of a thousand pieces a day from the floor to my cart up and into the brake lifting the unsupported end while it's getting bent then neatly onto a pallet. All that combined with about five miles of walking between stations (it varies from day to day, but based on measuring the distances of each trip on a typical day it's right around 4.5 to 5).

I gained all the weight when I quit smoking and ended up switching addictions to sweets. 1 year, a strict diet of lean meats, lots of veggies, with the occasional pasta or taters and 72 of the 140lbs I gained is gone. I believe a lot of the obesity problem is lousy diet and lack of exercise.....particularly with regard to the younger folks (kids, teens, and 20 somethings).

Of course I think age is a factor. I used to eat thousands of calories (from 4000 to 7000+) a day and weighed in at only 150-160lbs @ 6'1" tall, but that was until my late twenties where the ol metabolism decided to drop off.

#659 Michaelangelica

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:44 PM

The bipartisan Mississippi legislation, which proposed to ban restaurants from serving fat people purportedly to help them lose weight, has highlighted the most popular misconception about fat people. One that even a lot of fat people have been led to believe: that they overeat and that’s why they’re obese.


This concept has been drilled into us and “everybody knows” it to be true. But is it?


http://junkfoodscien...lieve-that.html




The thrifty genotype hypothesis has been used to explain high, and rapidly escalating, levels of obesity and diabetes among groups newly introduced to western diets and environments, from South Pacific Islanders,[10] to Sub Saharan Africans,[11] to Native Americans in theSouthwestern United States,[12] to Inuit.[13]


http://en.wikipedia....gene_hypothesis


Inactivity Does Not Cause Obesity: Study Confirms Dr. Hanan Polansky’s Starved Gene Theory
shareshare ROCHESTER, N.Y., July 15, 2010 — According to a recent longitudinal study in children, inactivity does not lead to fatness! Moreover, the authors concluded that fatness is driving inactivity, and not the other way around. The authors noted that this “reverse causality” explains the observed association between inactivity and fatness. It also explains the repeated failures of the attempts to reduce childhood obesity by increasing physical activity. The study was published in the Archives of Disease in Childhood by Dr. Brad Metcalf and colleagues from Plymouth, UK.

Surprised? You shouldn’t be, if you’re familiar with Dr. Hanan Polansky’s theory on the cause of obesity published in his highly acclaimed “Purple Book.” According to Dr. Polansky, the cause of obesity, and other major diseases, is a chronic infection with one of the most common viruses. The cause of obesity is not lack of activity, and it’s not “bad” eating habits!


How do chronic viruses cause obesity?

http://www.ereleases...ne-theory-38069

When famine came, some people starved and others survived. The survivors were the ones who had genes for efficient fat storage. Maybe they also had genes for a slow metabolism so they didn't burn calories too fast. The people who carried these "thrifty" genes lived to reproduce. They passed the traits on to their children

http://www.vegan-wei...ic-obesity.html

Edited by Michaelangelica, 22 April 2012 - 06:48 PM.


#660 Under the Rose

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:23 AM

My apologies for not reading all 44 pages before wading in here, but I have worked in the retail food industry for seven years now and have had considerable opportunity to read labels, do a bit of on-line research and make some personal observations.

The most interesting correlation to me, is that almost everyone looks exactly as you would expect merely by examining the contents of their shopping baskets.

Why are we getting fat?

My money's riding on sugar, salt, corn and flour as the most significant contributors of excess calories. Processed food made from these with added color, flavor and preservatives. In my opinion, 85% of the product in any retail grocery store is 'dead food' and does not satisfy our nutritional requirements.

Does adenovirus 36 (AD36) cause childhood obesity? I think there's another way to examine the evidence as this article points out.

http://www.naturalne...sity_virus.html

We have a food industry and we have a medical industry, both working to turn a profit. Is there any correlation between the two? Just a question, not a conspiracy theory....:huh:

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Interesting to consider that we fatten livestock on corn......

#661 paigetheoracle

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:27 AM

On BBC Television in the UK is a documentary that can be caught on its I player too, about Corn Syrup. It states that Earl Butz, Nixon's Agricultural secretary, introduced this into most processed food and drink. It also states that this substance affects the hormone that controls appetite - not a virus then but hormonal problems, introduced by that virulent enemy of humanity - other humanity! (Corn Syrup, Aspartme, Agent Orange, the H-Bomb...) :rolleyes:

#662 Michaelangelica

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:04 PM

“Harcombe painstakingly dissects obvious statements such as people are fat because they eat too much and exercise too little and demonstrates they are based on a mixture of prejudice, myth and bad science.[/color]

“Her thesis is that dietary advice changed in the late 19070s and early 1980s towards promoting starchy foods. At the same time there was an explosion in processed foods containing sugars, trans fats and other nutritionally weak but fattening ingredients.

“The final fatal element was that government action has been compromised because the food industry has far deeper pockets and helps fund both ‘independent’ groups such as the British Nutrition Foundation and the very departments supposedly regulating them.

“Harcombe calls for a diet based on real food and regulation based upon independence and science.

“There have been a number of books in recent years looking at the politics of food production and consumption. Harcombe’s is a welcome addition which adds new insight and evidence.”

http://www.theobesit...ic.org/reviews/

Edited by Michaelangelica, 11 August 2012 - 09:05 PM.


#663 paigetheoracle

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:31 PM

Watching a UK TV program called Eorpa (BBC Gaelic channel), which focused on France, it was stated that the French were now going from their well known svelte bodies to obesity because they have changed to fast food. I understand the Chinese are going the same way after importing convenience restaurants too. So could this be the simple answer - food that isn't nutritious enough for the body, creating a form of malnutrition or is it the steroids that beef up cattle or some other ingredient?

Another point is why do some people end up overweight and others do not on the same diet - please don't say it is because of this virus because the question still becomes why some people and not others?