rocket art Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Anyway, why is the Speed of Light the fastest thing possible, what convinced scientists that this observation is true and why can't you get any faster? Lightspeed is the fastest unit possible because supposedly matter cannot exceed beyond it (although I have philosophical views about it that can resolve the limitation). In E=mc^2, Einstein was able to incorporate the conscious observer relative to his environment, within the units c^2. Yet, with the Present dimension of E=mc^2, the observer may be differentiated relative to his environment. There is the observer who is 'aware', and the observer who is 'unaware'. There is a BIG difference to this and it is with 'awareness' that causes humanity to take its course and develop its civilizations. The eloquent pattern then, of Awareness is what we ought to seek after, and trace it at the most basic level inherently residing within us that would enable us to soar towards greater advancement for the Future. Being profoundly contributory to our Reality, the Awareness embedded in the memory of the Ideal Past, and instrumental in envisioning the Ideal Future, should be assigned with the highest unit this dimensional reality could muster, at the constant lightspeed c alpha=Awareness to be incorporated to the Present E=mc^2 towards an ideally promising, better and freer Future because we choose to be 'Aware'. I have expressed this view at my post "Parallel Present and Ideal Future" at the Philosophy and Humanities section and I let it be subjected to further scrutiny by members here, and I am willing to expound it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthepon Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Rocket art, what exactly do you mean? How was einstein able to incorporate 'the conscious observer relative to his environment within c^2'? And what do the second and third paragraphs have to do with the topic at hand? Yet, with the Present dimension of E=mc^2, the observer may be differentiated relative to his environment. There is the observer who is 'aware', and the observer who is 'unaware'. There is a BIG difference to this and it is with 'awareness' that causes humanity to take its course and develop its civilizations. The eloquent pattern then, of Awareness is what we ought to seek after, and trace it at the most basic level inherently residing within us that would enable us to soar towards greater advancement for the Future. Being profoundly contributory to our Reality, the Awareness embedded in the memory of the Ideal Past, and instrumental in envisioning the Ideal Future, should be...For one, How can an observer be differentiated with respect to the environment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Lightspeed is the fastest unit possible because supposedly matter cannot exceed beyond itThis made me laugh out loud. "X is the quietest sound we can hear because we cannot hear anything quieter than x." :QuestionM Prolu,My understanding (while limited) parellels Ron's. As you accelerate, you get heavier and as you get heavier it takes more energy to accelerate more. Then, as you approach the speed of light, getting ever closer, you continue to get heavier... so heavey, in fact, that the energy required to make you go any faster is infinite... hence, the limit of c (there's not enough energy in the entire universe to push you past that constant). That is my understanding. My hope is that we just haven't sufficiently used our imaginations to find a way around this yet. Back when people were riding horses, they found ways to make them run faster, but horses have limits. So, it took some brilliant epiphany to come up with the concept of a combustion engine driving wheels, and from there, we moved into another eschalon of velocity increases with the engine itself. Once we find the "combustion engine" of light, we ought to be able to go faster than the "horses" on which we're riding now. Maybe... :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket art Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 This made me laugh out loud. "X is the quietest sound we can hear because we cannot hear anything quieter than x." :QuestionM No, you differentiate between matter and lightspeed because mass is differentiated from speed of light in E=mc^2. You seem to identify both lightspeed and matter as x. Ronthepon I do recommend that you visit my thread "Parallel Dimension and Ideal Future" in Philosophy and Humanities forums first. Some of your inquiries may have been adressed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 ...In E=mc^2, Einstein was able to incorporate the conscious observer relative to his environment, within the units c^2. No. E=mc^2 is the equivalence of matter and energy. It has nothing at all to do with consciousness or observers.Yet, with the Present dimension of E=mc^2, No. this makes no sense at all. E=mc^2 is not a "dimension", has nothing to do with dimensions.the observer may be differentiated relative to his environment. There is the observer who is 'aware', and the observer who is 'unaware'. No. To observe is to be aware, to see, to measure to have sensory evidence of an event. An "observer" who is not aware, cannot observe. Rocket art, this and the remainder of your post, sounds very mystical, or very confused. I suspect you do not really understand E=mc^2 or Relativity or even Science as a method of understanding. Your ideas suggest that you are very young. If this is true, give yourself a few years and keep reading and studying. Please let me give you a hint. Physics and mystical language do not mix very well. Trying to equate "energy" and "awareness" has been tried before, but it never seems to work. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 ...As you accelerate, you get heavier and as you get heavier it takes more energy to accelerate more...I was given a good model for this once. Imagine you have a rifle with infinite accuracy. The bullets travel at some great speed, B. (compare to the speed of light). You wish to propel a payload away from you at the greatest speed possible, by bouncing bullets off it. You shoot the payload (say, a soda can filled with electronics, whatever) ten times and the payload is now moving away at speed 1/2 B. From the can's viewpoint, the bullets are arriving slower and slower, and each one provides less propulsive momentum when it bounces off. Another ten shots, and the can is going 3/4 B.Another ten shots, and the can is going 7/8 B.Etc. etc. The velocity of recession of the can can be as close to B as you want, but you can never make it exceed B. PS: This analogy has a few teensy flaws, but the imagery does aid understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 That is a wonderful (although not perfect) aid to more easily visualize the issue Pyro... Thank you. :hihi: It sounds very similar to the law of diminishing returns... Energy input loses effectiveness per unit measure as velocity approaches c... I'm sorry, as velocity approaches B. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket art Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 No. E=mc^2 is the equivalence of matter and energy. It has nothing at all to do with consciousness or observers. And yet in our physical universe with the equation of E=mc^2 that we assign to it, it is very evident that we, as Conscious entities are a very integral part of it, and in fact contributory to the kind of reality that we are creating and experiencing today. No. this makes no sense at all. E=mc^2 is not a "dimension", has nothing to do with dimensions. No. To observe is to be aware, to see, to measure to have sensory evidence of an event. An "observer" who is not aware, cannot observe. The units asssigned by E=mc^2 are based on the highest possible unit that one could possibly muster in this Universe, and that is the speed of light, therefore it has everything to do with the dimension of our physical Universe. I have differentiated even further than what you stated. There is the difference between an observer who is 'aware' to a given situation, to an observer who is 'unaware' to a given situation. There is a BIG difference and the implications of it are very evident in our daily decisions in every moment we experience in this dimension. Surely you can differentiate between your stepping on a pool and being 'aware' that it is deep, to stepping on it but 'unaware' of it, and the resulting implication to your space-time reality. Awareness definitely is far more profound than your initial perception of it. And yet Awareness, being knowledge is a pattern to be deciphered. Such pattern could be intricately probed deeper into the very first instance that we exhibit such 'awareness', while we are yet on the fetal, even mitosis stage of each one's existence. Rocket art, this and the remainder of your post, sounds very mystical, or very confused. I suspect you do not really understand E=mc^2 or Relativity or even Science as a method of understanding. Your ideas suggest that you are very young. If this is true, give yourself a few years and keep reading and studying. Please let me give you a hint. Physics and mystical language do not mix very well. Trying to equate "energy" and "awareness" has been tried before, but it never seems to work. Good luck. I am into art, and my role is to pluck from the intangible, abstract realms, a tangible idea, an image, in which I am doing right now, and such is not an easy task for me to translate the idea behind my painting into an equation, but I did upon noticing that Einstein's formula was elegant and capable enough to assign language for it. Science as a method of understanding is a very useful tool, and its proven usefulness is achieved because it answers the questions "how", yet dares not answer the question "why", which is appropriate. As Conscious individuals, we need not define how we perceive issues solely based on tools alone, because the effort of digging the truth is not solely dependent on just the tool spade alone, but on the digger himself. Consciousness is very evident as justly deserved, and does not have to be shelved just to mysticism, although such profoundness of it will always freely constitute to the mystery. To approach the Singularity and beyond the highest unit of lightspeed requires infinitesimal Energy and the blurring of time itself, and matter or any physical tool supposedly cannot exceed beyond it. It will be achieved with the power within that constitute the existence of Life itself and our being Aware. This is by our Conscious Energy alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I would like to understand more about your undefined terms, Rocket Art, however, I can tell you do not understand your audience in this particular thread. Explore concepts. Try new ideas. See if you can link them with existing knowledge. These are all good things. However, right now you are presenting as fact something that is still an incomplete idea. Please bear that in mind, and recall to whom you are presenting and where you are doing it. Might I suggest the Philosophy and Humanities Forum, where dialogues regarding consciousness might best be served. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket art Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Ok Infinite, but I do invite you folks to visit my thread "Parallel Dimension and Ideal Future" over there (Philosophy and Humanities forums). I am presenting it for open minded scrutiny. I believe we do not have to remain at separating things and views if we are to seek solutions for humanity's Future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebbysteiny Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 It's kina true by definition of the rules of the Universe the way I see it. An example might help. Imagine a rocket travelling at 0.95c relative to the Earth towards the Earth. That rocket fires a cannon. In the rest frame of the spaceship, the cannon can fire it's ball at another 0.95c. So how fast is it coming at the Earth? 0.95c + 0.95c = ......about 0.99c or something. Velocities do not add linearly. Instead the most they can ever add to is speed c. Time and space shrinks instead. In this way, you can keep on accellatating 0.95c again and again, and you would be accellarating 0.95c relative to the frame you started the accellaration from, but no frame will observe you moving faster than c no matter how many times you accellarate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farsight Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Interestingly, gravity can be described as a gradient in the value of c. You can't have any gravity without this gradient. Which means that whilst c looks like a universal constant, it's variable everywhere! Only we can never measure it because it affects everything we measure with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Einstein never "proved" that no objects can exceed the speed of light. Oddly enough, he assumed it as a given. Then he built his SR on top of that assumption. Err, no. Einstien did not start by assuming that objects cannot exceed c. He started with two postulates: 1. The Laws of Physics are the same in all inertial frames2. The speed of light in a vacuum© is invarient in all inertial frames. From these he derived time dilation, length contraction and the relativity of simultaneity. In turn, from these, he derived the relativistic expression for kinetic energy which showed that KE for a non-zero rest mass object approached infinity as the velocity of the object approached c. The speed of light limit is a conclusion of Relativity, not an assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...To approach the Singularity and beyond the highest unit of lightspeed requires infinitesimal Energy and the blurring of time itself....:lol: :cheer: :lol: :eek_big: :lol: Very entertaining. Keep the day job, rocket art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Err, no. Einstein did not start by assuming that objects cannot exceed c. He started with two postulates: 1. The Laws of Physics are the same in all inertial frames2. The speed of light in a vacuum© is invarient in all inertial frames. ....Hmmmmmmm. Okay.I checked my "Relativity Explained" (published back in the 80's) and by my reading we are both correct, though you moreso than I. I did misspeak by saying that "no objects can exceed c". What I meant to say (and admittedly did not) is that the speed of light in a vaccuum is never observed to change. this would be your point (2). My book says that it is THIS point (2) that Einstein accepted as a postulate of his physics, not a proven fact from evidence. Not counting, of course, the evidence of his gedanken experiments. :cheer: Thanks for the correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 On an off-topic point, why is that every lightspeed thread is about 75% cranky? TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...why is that every lightspeed thread is about 75% cranky? Because the speed of light is a noying, and everybody hates noyings.... Ms. Crankypants,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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