What are the evolved reasons for our motivations and impulses?

[Cedars]

You are correct, but I did not make a point that they were independent. Where'd you get that?

 

Nope. Trees are not made up of leaves, but cells. Just as we are. The analogy doesn't fit.

 

Perhaps (clearly, the key word here) the aggregate of the cell behavior plays a role in our own behavior. Aquisition of resources is a means to an end...

 

Is it possible that I am wrong? Of course. I will always concede that possibility. It also might be a bit apples and oranges. I just place a higher value on the passing on of ones genes than I do on one's personal survival. I do this based on the reading I've done into biology and psychology and my experience with people.

 

Anyway... Cheers. :steering:

 

If you want to use this type of comparison in this topic you would have to stick with one celled/multi celled organisms and their drives to survive. I think my point holds true there also. The one celled organisms still have to feed the cell and gather/absorb resources to promote/trigger the ability to divide into two surviving cells. What happens in a petri dish when you deprive cells of the resources they need? They do not reproduce.

 

I think we have evolved a bit further than this. That is why I used the tree analogy in my post. I know the tree is a complex array of cells working as one unit. So are we. I also think the hunt for resources on the level so many other life forms on the planet have evolved to, is more complex and a stronger drive than the reproductive drive. The hunt for resources has changed for many types of life on this planet and it is this ability to adapt the hunt for resources that shows an evolutionary change. The reproductive drive does not show the propensity for evolution that the hunt does. The ability to gather resources is the key factor and drive that ensures reproduction.

[ingannilo]

I contend that even the desire to survive is based on a deeper desire to proginate and pass on our genes to our offspring. Others do not think this is the case.

 

I'm with this man right here.

 

Since the question was brought about in my mind years ago by unknown stimuli, I've been unable to trace anything back to any motivation other than to propagate for the (all too frequently) unseen benefit of evolution.

 

That said, we've built an advanced network of means to secure passage of our genetic material. That's where things get tricky in my eyes.

 

John

[IMAMONKEY!]

Well it's almost natural impulse of any creature to reproduce among other things. Gambling becomes an impulse for some because they see it as a way to better their chances in life. Thats because we are all fighting for our lot in the world. Everyone trying to control it. It is morals and sentience that keeps us from becoming mindless humping and eating machines (much like rabbits, stupid animals).

 

We are motivated in life by what i think are visions of power. Thats what the world is all about. Everybody wants everything but some might actually get it. Power. Power is almost the key to our drive. If we were not able to control anything and had no power,we would have never had the will to create tools, weild fire, forge steel.

 

Have you ever looked at a fire? just stared at the raw energy of the flame and wishing you could be that flame. An unstoppable force that drives forward. consumes all. Fire. We envy it. and do you know why? because it is raw unstoppable force. We fear it. We hate it. We love it. We come to realize it is the one thing that we could not control. Fire is the one thing that we could not invent. Perpetual motion. It keeps going and going until everything is gone. It burns until it runs out of gas. And since the whole universe is its gas it is undeniably fueled forever. It burns until we want it to stop. We have been trying to make a perpetual motion device when there is one right now. Burning our forests and houses. Cooking our meals. Warming our flammable flesh.

 

And it is one of the many powers in this world that drives us. To control fire would be like controlling the world. Heat is energy. You cannot have energy without heat. Even electricity gives off heat. You give off heat.

 

And heat is power. The one thing that drives us forward and makes us better than the animals.

 

IMAMONKEY!:D

[Michaelangelica]

seems this topic petered out but has linked with the end of anew one

"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

 

Our purpose in life is to do what our genes tell us to do- REPLICTE ME!

We are just a vessel for the genes and bacteria to get on with whatever it is that they are doing.

 

You might enjoy this thread which sort of sputtered out...

 

http://hypography.com/forums/biology...-impulses.html

 

Sometimes those things which are invisible to us are the most important. It's always right now, but you cannot grasp it, see it, touch it, smell it, yet it is all you experience. Cheers.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

InfiniteNow

at

http://hypography.com/forums/philosophy-humanities/5721-what-purpose-life-11.html#post100236

[Zythryn]

The idea I am attempting to get at is that the need to reproduce motivates the need to survive, eat, etc. It sounds like you are saying that the need reproduce is secondary and the need to get resources primary.

 

I would disagree strongly that the need to reproduce is the sole motivator for the need to survive. If that were the case, the need to survive would have no motivating factor once a person was not able to reproduce, or did not have motivation to do so.

Homosexuality in humans or elsewhere in nature certainly wouldn't be as prevalent as once the desire to procreate is gone, homosexual creatures would die rather rapidly due to a lack of desire to survive.

 

I would argue that there is no need to have any deeper level of motivation for the desire to survive. It is natural selection at its most basic. Creatures with a desire to survive are more likely to pass along their genes. The stronger the sense to survive the stronger the likelyhood.

 

Likeswise, the stronger the desire to procreate, the more likely to pass along genes to the next generation.

 

In my opinion, the evidence we see seems to indicate that the two desires are both strong, with the desire for survival being stronger. And the two are not linked in any way (for example, you see a bus that is going to hit you in 2 seconds, is your first thought "oh #$@% I don't want to die" or "oh #@$% I have to have more kids"?).

 

Mark

[HydrogenBond]

All our motivations are based on instinctive impulses. Human sort of extrapolate the natural set with subjectivity. That is why a new car is sold with a beautiful woman sitting on it. Induce sexual desire, and then redirect that desire in a subjective way, so it become confused enough for the person to mistake the car for the woman.

 

What is interesting about sexual desire, compared to hunger, thirst, it is not necessary for individual survival. If we don't breath for 10 mins we are brain dead, if we don't drink for a weak we become a a dead prune, and if we don't eat for a month we won't have to diet any more. But sex, one can go a whole lifetime without it and not die.

 

The sexual instinct is not connected to the survival of the individual but the survival of the species. This is ironical since it is the cultural basis for so much ego-centric motivation which has little to do with the survival of the species but more to do the subjective needs of the individual.

[Boerseun]

In my opinion, the evidence we see seems to indicate that the two desires are both strong, with the desire for survival being stronger. And the two are not linked in any way...Mark

Nope. Survival as an instinct is subservient to Procreation.

 

The desire to survive is simply there to give you more time in which to procreate. The spreading or your genetic material is the sole purpose, reason and motivator for life.

[HydrogenBond]

Survival instinct in culture is easily satisfied, so as to not seem important. But in the animal world survival is life with the mating season only a short part of the time. If one was full and had a beautiful babe nearby, there is no question where the choice would go. If you were drowning in a lake with the same beautiful girl nearby and you had the choice of a quicky or being helped, most sane people would want to live to bonk another day. The same can be said of any of the survival instincts, if they are ignorred long enough to become imperatives. Sex is more of an imperative when one is full with respect to the other instincts. In nature the dominant male will often have a full belly and extra muscules due to a good diet.

[Zythryn]

Nope. Survival as an instinct is subservient to Procreation.

 

The desire to survive is simply there to give you more time in which to procreate. The spreading or your genetic material is the sole purpose, reason and motivator for life.

 

Perhaps I simply don't understand what you mean by 'Survival as an instinct is subservient to Procreation.'

 

Does this mean, that if someone is unable to procreate (for any reason) they no longer have a desire to survive? I am guessing that is not your stance. Could you define what how you see the two desires relating to each other?

 

Mark

[Boerseun]

Perhaps I simply don't understand what you mean by 'Survival as an instinct is subservient to Procreation.'

 

Does this mean, that if someone is unable to procreate (for any reason) they no longer have a desire to survive? I am guessing that is not your stance. Could you define what how you see the two desires relating to each other?

 

Mark

The desire to survive might, like in the previous example override the desire to have sex. But in the long term, sacrificing one sex act for a longer life in which more sex acts can be performed, makes sense in terms of spreading your genetic information.

 

Gestation in the animal world normally takes too long for the cause of birth to be understood by animals. They don't know why they have sex. So Nature invented the orgasm as a short term 'payoff' for an act thats results would only be seen months from the time of the deed. So, the desire for sex is a short-term selfish desire for achieving orgasm. Humans have only relatively recently engaged in the practice of intentionally having sex for the sake of conception. However, the high availability and use of birth control methods indicate that we are mostly doing the horizontal tango for the short-term pleasure.

 

Seeing as animals don't really ponder these things, like where babies come from, the survival instinct is a separate instinct from the sexual. And it works in degrees - starting from something as silly as bumping your toe, which causes pain, which hurts, which causes you to look more carefully where you walk because you don't want to get hurt again. "Pain", in this sense, is a training tool nature uses to help animals avoid death. Working in degrees from slight pain to excrutiating pain to death. But it should be clear that from simple figures, those that follow the survival instinct, would have more time to procreate. Although it should be said that there is no distinct 'instinct' or 'desire' to procreate, there is simply a desire to have sex for the short-term payoff. Mothers might become broody, but that's hormonal. The ability to 'procreate' in a given set of circumstances, might be likened to Darwin's idea of 'fitness'. The 'fittest' will survive, and procreate. The survival instinct make the animal 'fitter' than those without.

 

Being an independent instinct, if an animal loses the ability to procreate, say, through castration, the survival instinct would still be quite intact. His survival won't mean anything in terms of getting his genetic information to the next generation, but it's a statistical game. His fondness for living will not be transmitted to the next generation.

 

Render him infertile, and he'll live long an not procreate.

Take away the survival instinct, and he won't live long enough to procreate, either.

 

The survival instinct serves procreation.

[Zythryn]

...

The survival instinct serves procreation.

 

I suspect there has been a misunderstanding here:)

 

I agree that procreation is served by the survival instinct. Just as in some birds the developement of colorful feathers serves procreation (not at the same magnetude however).

 

I would also state the survival instinct must be present as a foundation, and more important level than the instinct/desire to procreate. As if you don't survive to have a chance at procreating then you can't :(

 

Or...

 

Without survival procreation is not possible.

 

Without procreation survival is still possible.

 

So I believe you and I were saying the same thing, in different ways. If you disagree with my second statement please accept my apologies.

 

Mark

[InfiniteNow]

Without survival procreation is not possible.

Yes.

 

Without procreation survival is still possible.

No.

 

Without procreation, the species dies out, and it doesn't matter how strong your need for individual survival may or may not have been, you're still going to die. Once you're gone... that's it. You procreate, the species survives. You don't, it doesn't.

[Zythryn]

Yes.

 

 

No.

 

Without procreation, the species dies out, and it doesn't matter how strong your need for individual survival may or may not have been, you're still going to die. Once you're gone... that's it. You procreate, the species survives. You don't, it doesn't.

 

 

Hmmm, my apologies, I was unclear.

 

Let me try again...

 

Without survival of the individual, procreation is not possible.

 

Without procreation survival of the individual is still possible.

 

Mark

[IMAMONKEY!]

I see what you are getting at. I htink the problem is most people are talking about the species while you are merely talking of the individual. A common mistake. Now we understand. Look at it this way. You can speculate as to how something will react to being castrated, but if you think abotu it, that is not neccesarily what will happen. You are all discussing things that might happen. This thread is useless unless someone has had experience with not being able to procreate. And since i dont think anyone here is castrated then there is obviously going to be no positive reply to this post and i am going to get flamed. yipee...:shrug:

 

IMAMONKEY!:eek_big:

[Zythryn]

I see what you are getting at. I htink the problem is most people are talking about the species while you are merely talking of the individual. A common mistake. Now we understand. Look at it this way. You can speculate as to how something will react to being castrated, but if you think abotu it, that is not neccesarily what will happen. You are all discussing things that might happen. This thread is useless unless someone has had experience with not being able to procreate. And since i dont think anyone here is castrated then there is obviously going to be no positive reply to this post and i am going to get flamed. yipee...:shrug:

 

IMAMONKEY!:eek_big:

 

LOL, no flames coming from here.

 

While I have not been castrated, I have no desire to have children, does that suffice?

 

In addition to castration, you also have age (at some point, women simply no longer produce eggs, correct?), and homosexuality (while adoption is certainly an option, biological procreation is not possible).

 

Mark

[InfiniteNow]

You are all discussing things that might happen.

No, not actually. Per the opening post, as well as the designated subject, we are trying to ascertain a better understanding of the evolved reasons for our motivations.

 

This thread is useless unless someone has had experience with not being able to procreate.

That would have zero impact on their evolved mechanisms. Just because I get my foot cut off in a turbine doesn't mean I didn't evolve to have the ability to walk... Someone who has their eye stabbed in a horrible car wreck, while blind as a result, still evolved the ability to see, as would their children and their children's children. The point you made does not apply here, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. :D

 

 

Cheers. :)

[hallenrm]

Inteesting thoughts indeed!:)

 

Let me give a personal experience, I am not married and have no offspring, does that mean I have no "evolved reason............"? definitely not!!! I have a much more valid reason, and that's why I spend so much time on Hypgraphy, this reason is to pass on my thoughts (not genes) to people. The thoughts I may pass n may never be associated with me a couple of decades later, but I do believe it is a much more evolved reason for survival than just to procreate.:)