hallenrm Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I know, the claims of astrologists are naive, I can't imagine that the fate of billions of humans can be classified into twelve groups (call them sunsigns or moonsigns or whatever), based only on the positions of some planets at the time of birth.But, at the same time when I reckon with the fact that there are millions of people who can swear by the fact that their fete was foretold many years ago, i suspect there may be some substance in the claims of astrolologers. But if astrology is to be recognized, even as a protoscience, there has to be some viable hypothesis. Can any one provide the clues???:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Astrology is based on the assumption that the position of stars and planets (and their relative position to various arbitrary objects such as star signs) has an impact on people's life. Astrology has yet to show *how* this effect can be shown to exist, and how we can measure it. It cannot be gravity, since we are outside of the gravity field of other stars than our own, and the planets in our solar system have virtually no effect on the Earth. Astrology is not even pseudoscience. It is superstition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ...Astrology is not even pseudoscience. It is superstition.True, true, highly true. Ahhh, but WHY did astrology come to be such a pernicious and constant presence in human civilization for over 4,000 years? Maybe that's the real question we should looke at. Another point about astrology--I had a friend who was really really into it--had all the books, including the huge volume of numerical tables showing where each planet was for each hour of every day for hundreds of years. Yowch!! Little teeny-tiny print. I asked him how to use it, he showed me, and I looked up the position of Mars, because I happened to know at the time which constellation Mars was in. The book gave a position that was in error by a whole constellation!! WTF, Over? I did some research and found that astrology does NOT reflect the precession of the Earth's pole, which would cause the Zodiac Signs to slip out of position about one Zodiac Sign (constellation) every 2,000 years! So, the position tables today, assume the Zodiac as it was about 2,000 years ago when they were defined. If you know that Mars is in Sagitarius (because you went out at night and LOOKED--duh!! :lol: ), the astrology charts and tables (and those stupid predictions in the newspaper) will all tell you solemnly that Mars is in Scorpio, and your pecker will fall off. Wrong! :D :) :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ...So, the position tables today, assume the Zodiac as it was about 2,000 years ago when they were defined. If you know that Mars is in Sagitarius (because you went out at night and LOOKED--duh!! :lol: ), the astrology charts and tables (and those stupid predictions in the newspaper) will all tell you solemnly that Mars is in Scorpio, and your pecker will fall off. Wrong! :hihi: :D :) :lol: ___This actually happened to me a few weeks back when Uranus was in Cetus.:D :D PS How is the accuracy of Eastern Astrolgers vs. the Western cited in regard to the actual current positions of the heavenly bodies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Just checked my sky software for your...errr Uranus...it is in Aquarius in conjunction with the Sun. This bodes well for regrowth of vital members.:lol: Tormod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ...Can any one provide the clues???:lol:Welcome, hallenrm.Well try this on for size.We want to predict the future, right? So, we need omens. There are your goat entrails, but goats are expensive. There are owls hooting outside your bedroom window, but that's rare in the big city. We need omens that recur so regularly that there is always one around when you need it.Aha! The sun moves through the stars once every 12 months, so we will name a bunch of stars for each month. And the planets wander among the stars too, in patterns that are nearly cyclical and "mysterious". The king has a stomach ache. Where are the planets? Well, Venus is in Leo. Didn't Queen Putrinella have a stomach ache when Venus was in Leo, back 20 years ago? Yeah, I think she did! Well, isn't it obvious! Duh!! When Venus is in Leo, royalty gets stomach aches! It is this kind of simple, association logic that gets things started. You need a backdrop of regular omens. You associate them with similar events that occur with the same regularity. And you ignore "negative events" where the king doesn't have a stomach ache when Venus is in Leo. And you keep detailed written records, so that your grandchildren can find even more "patterns" in the data and invent new associational rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallenrm Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Wow!! the response is much more then I ever expected. Here is my hypothesis as regards astrology. First of all I shall try to explain the proclaimed personality traits of the twelve sunsigns etc. The Sunsigns are based on the month of the birth of an individual. Well, one possibility of its so called success could be trace to the effects of the weather and hence the moods of the expectant mother on the developing ovum. The climate in different months of an year is often predictable, and different parts of the human body develops at different times during the pregnancy period, that could probably explain why aquarians are so unpredictable and inventive:) . A sideline to this hypothesis would be when a mother travels to a different region during pregnancy, that should lead to deviations. The hypothesis calls for a detailed statistical investigation. I wonder if any scientist has ever proposed similar hypthesis earlier and tried to test it.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Very interesting.. I think that the year and hour of birth play a more important role. But then, I subscribe to the Chinese horoscopes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 The climate in different months of an year is often predictable Nope. Weather is perhaps the hardest thing to predict since it is a chaotic system. However, I would be inclined to accept that the environment on Earth has an impact on our lives. However, not only before or at birth, but through our entire lives. And that is not superstition but a fact of life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallenrm Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Nope. Weather is perhaps the hardest thing to predict since it is a chaotic system. However, I would be inclined to accept that the environment on Earth has an impact on our lives. However, not only before or at birth, but through our entire lives. And that is not superstition but a fact of life... Yes, weather is chaotic, but aren't we familiar with orderly behavior from chaotic systems? And then astrology was never an exact 'science' and i am not advocating it to be one. My humble suggestion is only attempt to explain why people are drawn to Linda Goodman. It's a phenomenon, and as I scientist, I like to make such attempts, Who knows, after fifty odd years I may get the Nobel for doing so.:) hallenrm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 ...one possibility of its so called success could be trace to the effects of the weather and hence the moods of the expectant mother on the developing ovum... I wonder if any scientist has ever proposed similar hypthesis earlier and tried to test it.:)I believe I heard this theory when I was in college in the Sixties. In fact, I believed it myself for a while.However...the seasons in the Southern Hemisphere are the opposite of what we have in the North. And there are no seasons to speak of near the Equator. True, astrology was developed mostly in the Northern Hemisphere, but even from one side of Europe to the other, weather patterns do not correlate enough to reliably establish consistent patterns that would be noted by Sumerian astrologers in 1,000 BC. Or even by Europeans in 1,000 AD. I doubt if there's anything to this, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Who knows, after fifty odd years I may get the Nobel for doing so.:) I'll vote for you when I get onto the Nobel committee! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I'll vote for you when I get onto the Nobel committee! :)Tormod, :) remember what happened the last time you were on the Nobel committee?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Something that puzzles me about this astrology mumbo jumbo. It is not uncommon today to see some astrologer claim that Scorpio is currently ruled by Pluto or something similar. Pluto was discovered less than a century ago, were all the horoscopes off somewhat before it's discovery? :) How much does the latest planetary discovery, Charon, effect astrology? What about planets we haven't even discovered yet? Me thinks maybe astrology should be put on hold until all the celestial bodies have been discovered.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Something that puzzles me about this astrology mumbo jumbo. What about planets we haven't even discovered yet? Me thinks maybe astrology should be put on hold until all the celestial bodies have been discovered.:) Mumbo Jumbo. :) That about sums it up.I believe all the Fortune Cookies I read too! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotex Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 ...Pluto was discovered less than a century ago, were all the horoscopes off somewhat before it's discovery? ...Good call. Up until -- what? 1870 or so? -- the known planets were just those visible with the unaided eye. Jupiter and Saturn were the outermost. As each of the last planets were discovered, astrology "discovered" a new emotion tied to the position of the latest orb. Yeah. Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I think that the interpretations that are offered are a bunch of crap. I'm gonna go pick up a Cosmo magazine and know what my future holds? Yeah, right... However, there may some basis in the following (again, interpretations left behind): The gravitational pull resulting from the stars and planets had an impact on the bulge of the Earth, which may have had an impact on which sperm hit the egg. During gestation, the same effect may have had an impact on neuronal development... where which synapse formed and the like. A process that could continue through life, as nerve (dendridic) connections are ever changing. Even bloodflow could shift as a result of the gravitational and/or electromagnetic influences which themselves are effected by the position and interaction of the stars and planets... There's iron in the blood which reacts to such influences. This potential idea came from my desire to find a scientific exploration for chi... but is not necessarily the same as astrology. Mumbo jumbo? Yes... Predictions? Believe what you want. The above points too, while very weak and unsupported, at least propose some possible scientific areas which could be explored. Me... Virgo/Horse (whatever that might mean :doh: ) Cheers. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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