For those who like to argue...

[Tarantism]

in my opinoin, it is absolutely rediculous that cocaine is a scedule two drug, yet the much safer and less addicting cannibus is a scedule one. its nearly impossible to overdose with the abuse of marijuana, yet you hear it happening with cocaine, haroine and other mathanphetamines(sp?) all the time. Also, Salvia Divinorum is legal, and that is a much more potent, psychadellic drug. Finilly, smoking herb is so common that it almost seems not even worth it to persue "stoners" seeing as how there are many more dangerous drugs on the market.

 

therefore i pose this question to those with the knowlege: would it be a good idea to leagalize marijuana?

[rockytriton]

Sure it would be a good idea, but only if you would want to be killed by drug lords.

[rockytriton]

by the way, what is scedule one and two? and what is this Salvia stuff?

[Tarantism]

ha! i think that you are leaning too much on the scarface side of things, i know of growers, cannibus club members and M.D.'s who supply marijuana, but drug lords? hmmm.

[Tarantism]

by the way, what is scedule one and two? and what is this Salvia stuff?

 

well, starting with Sc. 1 and 2, that is just a way to gage the importance or regulating the use of different drugs, for example i believe that most drugs that you see at right aid and such are sc. 4, meaning that they are totally legal to sell, but the government still regulates the dosages. scedule one drugs mean that dealing or possesion is an automatic felony...cocaine is not. rediculous.

 

Salvia...i dont know much about it other than that it is a very intense psychadellic drug that can do one of a million different things to you, but the one thing that everyone agrees on is that it throws you into another consiousness.

[cwes99_03]

What would legalizing it accomplish?

Other than allowing many more people to think it is completely harmless, thereby encouraging more people to ruin their minds, bodies, health, and risk their lives and others when these pot heads get so high that they get behind the wheel and drive into oncoming traffic.

New a couple of guys in college who liked to smoke weed. Guess how many years it took them to finish. Guess how many classes they failed. Guess what their GPA was compared to mine when they graduated.

The reasons for outlawing marijuana is that it is extremely harmful to the smoker and just as harmful to everyone they come into contact with while high. As for Salvia, it should be scheduled.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/salvia_d/salvia_d.htm

A little DOJ info on salvia.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law.shtml

Salvia divinorum is uncontrolled in the United States. This means all parts of the plant and its extracts are legal to buy, sell, cultivate, and possess without a license or prescription. If sold as a supplement, sales must conform to U.S. supplement laws. If sold for consumption as a food or drug, sales are regulated by the FDA.

 

The federal analog act generally requires that, in order to qualify as an analog, a substance must be chemically similar to a substance which is federally scheduled. Salvia Divinorum is chemically quite different from other scheduled substances and as a plant is quite unlikely to be targeted by this act.

 

Selling Salvia divinorum for human consumption as a "drug" is probably illegal in the US under the Food, Drug & Cosmetics Act and its sale as a drug would be regulated by the FDA. Selling an unapproved drug in the US can be prosecuted under the FD&C's "misbranding" clause. (FD&C Section 502) The more it is packaged and marketed as a drug (for example a 10x extract hyped as 'the new ecstasy') the more likely it is to be treated as an "illegal drug" by law enforcement agents.

 

The US Air Force is considering whether to include Salvia divinorum in the list of banned drugs. See Plant could get airmen in legal hot water, Jan 2004.

 

California Analog Act

Under the strict California Analog Act, salvia could potentially be prosecuted if it is sold for human consumption as a psychoactive drug.

 

US Federal Analogue Act

Under the Federal Analogue Act, salvia fails to meet the "chemically similar" criteria and thus is not subject to the analogue act provisions. However, the DEA has recently changed their view on this and now states:

 

"Salvia Divinorum, Salvinorin A, and Divinorin A are not listed in the Controlled Substances Act. If sold for human consumption, Salvia may be subject to control under the Analogue statutes because of its functional pharmacological similarities to other CI hallucinogens like THC."

-- from DEA Diversion Salvia Page Feb 2002

 

However the DEA's analysis is completely flawed. The Federal Analogue Act, as currently understood requires that a substance be "chemically similar" to a controlled substance not "pharmacologically similar" as the DEA suggests in their quote. Very little is known about the pharmacology of Salvia and there is still much unknown about the pharmacology of THC. Saying the two are 'pharmacologically similar' might satisfy the paragraph II of the Analogue Act test, but its also just wrong. Perhaps the DEA has performed human pharamcology studies on salvinorin that they are keeping secret, but most likely the authors of this article are just trying to use their position to further extend the reach of their power well beyond the scope of the law.

 

Salvinorin is not a chemical analog of any scheduled substance.

[rockytriton]

hmm, if you think it's not illegal to deal or possess cocaine you are mistaken.

[Tarantism]

i now that it is illegal to buy and sell cocaine, as well it should be, but posession of it is NOT a fellony.

 

"Salvia Divinorum, Salvinorin A, and Divinorin A are not listed in the Controlled Substances Act. If sold for human consumption, Salvia may be subject to control under the Analogue statutes because of its functional pharmacological similarities to other CI hallucinogens like THC."

-- from DEA Diversion Salvia Page Feb 2002

 

thanks for the info, but what i want to know is if the DEA knows the psychadellic effects of Salvinorin A, Divinorin A, and Salvia Divinorum, then why dont they regulate the distribution, or why isnt it a sceduled drug? :QuestionM

[Turtle]

:QuestionM

[Tarantism]

another thing, you said that you had friends who smoked herb, but what you need to understand is that its all abou thow you use your high. the thought process is amazing and if you use it to your advantage it can have amazingly positive artisitic and scientific results. Only someone who has never smoked could say that marijuana is a completely negative thing.

 

oh, and as far as driving goes, im sure that, if legal, driving under the influence of marijuana would be illegal, like driving drunk. alchohol is legal, and its much easier to become an alchoholic than get "addicited" to the THC in cannibus. Also, Alchohol acts as a depressant and marijuana is an anti-depressant.

[CraigD]

…therefore i pose this question to those with the knowlege: would it be a good idea to leagalize marijuana?

In my opinion, yes. Further, in the US, as required by Amendment 10 of the US Constitution, the legality of this or any other physiologically active substance should be decided by the various state legislatures (as several already have), without interference of the federal government.

 

I’ve good reason, supported by direct personal knowledge, to believe this won’t happen soon. In the US, marijuana is primarily a domestic crop, and a fantastically profitable one. In my experience, its growers and distributors are neither the violent gangsters nor the rustic sons and daughters of moonshiners depicted in popular fiction, but moderately well educated, usually from affluent families, and moderately but not fantastically wealthy (average annual income of about $1.5M, maximum about $10M). They make good use of the access to the democratic process that their wealth allows them, and are predominantly staunchly anti-legalization, supporting and encouraging anti-legalization elected officials. Without the current “war on drugs” maintaining the status quo of black markets, their business would be open to competition with efficient, licit corporate and private, and their personal incomes dramatically reduced.

[Tarantism]

so, basically what you are saying is that since the growers want profit (vast profit), they will continue to support anti-legalization canidates for public office...whats funny is how much influence the drug market has on our econamy.

 

if legalization were to occur, however, couldnt the growers simply make their "company" more public and start an actualy buisness? ah, capitolizm... :QuestionM

[Turtle]

so, basically what you are saying is that since the growers want profit (vast profit), they will continue to support anti-legalization canidates for public office...whats funny is how much influence the drug market has on our econamy.

 

if legalization were to occur, however, couldnt the growers simply make their "company" more public and start an actualy buisness? ah, capitolizm... :eek:

 

In Washington & Oregon it is legal to posses & grow pot for medicinal purposes with a doctors permission & a state issued card. The Feds are threatening the doctors now. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em. :QuestionM

See the book Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do for a very thorough discussion of victimless crimes.

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread1519.shtml

:eek2: :eek2:

[lindagarrette]

In the US, marijuana is primarily a domestic crop, and a fantastically profitable one. In my experience, its growers and distributors are neither the violent gangsters nor the rustic sons and daughters of moonshiners depicted in popular fiction, but moderately well educated, usually from affluent families, and moderately but not fantastically wealthy (average annual income of about $1.5M, maximum about $10M). They make good use of the access to the democratic process that their wealth allows them, and are predominantly staunchly anti-legalization, supporting and encouraging anti-legalization elected officials. Without the current “war on drugs” maintaining the status quo of black markets, their business would be open to competition with efficient, licit corporate and private, and their personal incomes dramatically reduced.

According to a statistic that sticks in my mind, crime is 85% successful. The problem is, however, the penalty for the 15% caught, is usually severe, especially for drug dealers. Only extreme entrepreneurs can live with these odds. Normal business failure may lead to bankruptcy but criminal prosecutation can end a person's opportunities forever.

[Iron4ever]

by the way, what is scedule one and two? and what is this Salvia stuff?

 

Salvia is derived from the American plant Salvia divinorum, a member of the mint family. It is used by the Mazatecs and others in Meso America. It is marketed in the UK under many guises. In head and sex shops it is often sold as herbal ecstasy, using names such as Eclipse. It is also sold as a dried natural high, intended for smoking (in variable amounts) or as a herbal remedy under its botanical name, or as the matrix or 'hallucinogenic sage'.

 

"Salvinorin A" the active component of Salvia Divinorum, is most effective when vaporised and inhaled, but the most common way to take it is by swallowing or smoking. Its effects are more hallucinatory than other legal highs - though high doses of the raw plant are usually needed to achieve these effects.

 

Very little is known about these drugs. Proper controlled research is sparse and therefore side effects and possible dangers when taken with other drugs and even foods is not fully known.

 

A dose of 200-500 mcg (mcg = micrograms. There are 1000 mcg in 1 mg) produces profound hallucinations that last from 30 minutes to an hour or two, while doses over 2mg (mg = milligrams. There are 1000 mg in 1 gram) are effective for much longer. According to the literature, doses greater than 500 mcg can cause the user to become completely unaware of their surroundings and enter a state of uncontrollable delirium during which they must be watched carefully.

 

Unfortunately these are substances that mimic the effects of some illegal drugs such as ecstasy and speed, but are not controlled by the Misuse of Drugs Act

[Iron4ever]

I’ve good reason, supported by direct personal knowledge, to believe this won’t happen soon. In the US, marijuana is primarily a domestic crop, and a fantastically profitable one. In my experience, its growers and distributors are neither the violent gangsters nor the rustic sons and daughters of moonshiners depicted in popular fiction, but moderately well educated, usually from affluent families, and moderately but not fantastically wealthy (average annual income of about $1.5M, maximum about $10M). They make good use of the access to the democratic process that their wealth allows them, and are predominantly staunchly anti-legalization, supporting and encouraging anti-legalization elected officials. Without the current “war on drugs” maintaining the status quo of black markets, their business would be open to competition with efficient, licit corporate and private, and their personal incomes dramatically reduced.

 

 

Cannabis is derived from the plant called Cannabis Sativa, which is grown all round the world. The Cannabis plant can also be grown in the UK, people trying to grow this plant in the UK on a commercial basis unfortunately hit problems as it requires specialist equipment and plenty of light and warmth. Cannabis comes in a few different forms those being resin, dried herbs and liquid, in the UK it is mainly resin.

Resin has acquired various different names some due to the strength, like Skunk, others due to peoples preferences. Most common names are Blow, Wacky Backy, Ganja, Dope, Hash or Hashish, Grass, Pot and many more.

 

Cannabis is a widely used drug and has been for some time in the UK. The effects of Cannabis is determined on the individual, the state of mind the individual was in before taking the drug, i.e. depressed or happy etc. Main effects of a user would be very talkative, relaxed and happy. Colours and sounds also play a big part in the state of users, as these are more pronounced and usually help relax the user. Like other drugs Cannabis can have its bad side of effects, especially when higher dose's are taken. Some side effects include hallucinations and the user may become disorientated. This in turn can also lead to the user being anxious or depressed and possible suicidal. Some users will also become paranoid especially if taking the drug at parties with a lot of other people around. Nausea and vomiting can be present when too much of the drug is taken at once. When smoking Cannabis it usually hits the spot fairly quickly and can last from 1 to 3 hours depending on the amount taken. Just like heroin users, Cannabis users also get the munchies and dry mouth.

Cannabis is classed as a drug that is fairly safe to use without any serious long lasting damage to physical or mental health. Cannabis is still dangerous due to the damage to the lungs through smoking, it is also said that it is not a drug that is addictive, to some people it is, also using cannabis with tobacco the user could get addicted to the nicotine in tobacco and get dependent on cigarette's. With regards to CraigDs post above, I do not beleive that he is totally correct in saying that "its growers and distributors are neither the violent gangsters..." maybe not at the level of a street dealer who is pushing 9 ounces a week, maybe not even at the level of the farmers producing the crops, but what about for Example of the Owner / Drug Dealers, who are at the top of the scale, Drugs Lords / Barons. They employ the farmers and through a network of organised crime eventually the end user. Im sure they would kill if anyone got in their way of acheiving their objective of getting the Cannabis on to the streets for their own personal wealth.

 

In regards to a previous post Cannabis can actually be addictive and a depresant as I have stated above. I have seen experience first hand of this happening. With out going into too much detail, a friend of mine smoked skunk since he was 18 untill 25, gradually increasing number he smoked every year (non sociallynow), gave up for 3 months, couldnt handle not smoking, started again untill to this day. He is now totally addictive, depressed and on the verge of Suicide!

[CraigD]

...Wacky Backy...

Ah, now that’s not a name one hears every day! :QuestionM

…With regards to CraigDs post above, I do not beleive that he is totally correct in saying that "its growers and distributors are neither the violent gangsters..." maybe not at the level of a street dealer who is pushing 9 ounces a week, maybe not even at the level of the farmers producing the crops, but what about for Example of the Owner / Drug Dealers, who are at the top of the scale, Drugs Lords / Barons. They employ the farmers and through a network of organised crime eventually the end user. Im sure they would kill if anyone got in their way of acheiving their objective of getting the Cannabis on to the streets for their own personal wealth.

I’m skeptical that this it true in Canada or the US.

 

In characterizing pot “growers and distributors”, I’m drawing solely from my personal experience, which consists of a near lifetime personal acquaintance with several small and large outdoor and indoor growers, and a couple of decades acquaintance with people who, in terms of portion of market controlled (about 10% of the Washington, DC metropolitan market), are well described by the term “drug lords / barrons”. Of these several dozen people, not one has, or would, in my judgment, kill a person who threatened their acquisition of illicit wealth, although many to most have suffered large financial losses from theft and beach of trust.

 

Like many farmers and tradespeople throughout the US, the growers of my acquaintance have a lot of guns, and can be threatening and intimidating in disagreements over money and property. Despite these tendancies, only 4 people I know, 2 of whom derived most of their income illicitly, have used deadly force in the course of a disagreement, and in none of these cases did the dispute involve drugs, but rather involved more common-place occurances: 2 romantic conflicts; 1 case involving theft of construction equipments (scaffold jacks); and, in the only case in which the target of deadly force was a police officer, an illegal firearm (a machine pistol).

 

Although I strongly suspect that many people involved in drug trafficking are, if not as violent as depicted in the popular media (a near impossibility, given the exaggerated, fictional violence there), as violent and willing to kill as Iron4ever describes, I’ve witnessed no such behavior among Northeaster, Mid-Atlantic, or Southeastern Americans. An old friend related to me a scary dealing he claims to have had with anonymous cocaine sellers who represented themselves as being Columbian nationals, in which he said he managed to avoid execution style murder only by surrendering essentially all of his personal property (about $25,000 (1987 dollars) worth of furniture, household goods, musical instruments, and audio recording equipment. I can’t fully credit the story, however, as there were no witnesses to it, and this friend is prone to fabulous fabrications.

 

In summary, because it is so at odds with my personal experience, I think the image of ruthless, murderous drug lords presented by news and entertainment outlets, and believe by many people to be accurate, is extremely exaggerated, at least with regards to the Canadian, and US marijuana black market.