Morals.

[goku]

No. There are even animals that exhibit a sense of morality. Look how many mothers protect and care for their young. Neanderthals seem to have had morals that drove them to have burial rituals for their dead.

i've been around animals all my life, and none have any morals what so ever. especialy cows :shrug:

[rockytriton]

good..........evil

god..........devil

 

yes, these are very similar in English... Though it's not the only language, nor is it the first!

[goku]

I'm not convinced of "empirical" evidence suggesting humans have been around for 10,000 years, but I really have to say I've never fully studied the issue. I guess that is one more subject I'll have to investigate, anthropology and the carbon dating process.

me neither. i could get some bones from a cow that i burried a year or two ago and have them carbon dated, but i don't know where to take them. :shrug:

[goku]

do you think that morals came from religion?

not necessarily. morals (right & wrong) came from god. i don't know where RELIGION came from.

[goku]

what so all humans before moses where evil?

no, just stupid :shrug:

[goku]

why do some people do good? is it because of something they feel? where do feelings come from?

[automatic existence]

People act “good” (it’s an illusion, because they do it for a personal gain) because as time has passed man has slowly gone from small, independent and solitary communities to bigger tribes or collectives of people. Now, at first, when we were cavemen we had no conscience and no "social intelligence". Why? Simply because it was no need for it. Later, when people began to collaborate to a bigger degree, started to trade things and help each other it wouldn’t be all that great if everybody cheated everybody all the time. Therefore humans slowly developed "social intelligence" (conscience, respect, empathy etc.) to work as a community. If not human civilization could not have begun.

 

Probably very simplified and “stupidified,” but anyway, I think you get what I mean.

Where’s the choice that there is no morality at all? Since it is imagination and illusionary from the start, of course you don’t need religion to "support" it.

 

Edit: More on topic is the answer that our instinct automatically makes us do good because we are biologically imprinted that way. So it’s really a no-brainer. Literally.

[rockytriton]

why do some people do good? is it because of something they feel? where do feelings come from?

 

This seems to me the type of attitude that gives Christians a bad name, when people give the impression that if someone doesn't have a religion (some people haven't been exposed to religions), then they have no feelings or morals and can't do things out of the goodness of their hearts.

[HydrogenBond]

If one looks at social animals they have an instinctive pseudo-moral code among the species that strikes a balance between the needs of the individual and the needs of the species. Humans are different. With their evolution, i..e, fall from paradise, they lost the ability to optimize both survival of the species and the individual. The human ego tries to optimize itself before the species. But even this optimization is subjective and can lead to unnatural results. Moral law is an attempt to restore than natural balance of self and species. But moral law is often subjective and still results in less than optimuum results.

[goku]

This seems to me the type of attitude that gives Christians a bad name, when people give the impression that if someone doesn't have a religion (some people haven't been exposed to religions), then they have no feelings or morals and can't do things out of the goodness of their hearts.

that's not what i ment. where does the goodness of their hearts come from?

what gives christians a bad name is...............for a different discusion.

[goku]

animals have no morals, no need for them. why would any animal want them?

like i said before, what is good what is wrong what if we got it backwards.

the standard had to be set somewhere, and if a human done it why should we believe it?

also you talk about groups of people causing a need for morals, why is it then that the most hatefull place to live is in the city?

 

one more thing, why are morals disappearing? why is it that the less moral america gets the more trouble it receives?

[Edge]

animals have no morals, no need for them. why would any animal want them?

Not exactly morals. However, they work in teams, they help themselves... they "respect" each other... to an extent of course. But you get the point...

[questor]

morals differ from mores in that mores are customs practiced by certain groups, but not by all groups. example.. female circumcision by some African tribes.

morals generally are common to all groups, they are not promulgated by the parties in power. this statement is ridiculous and cannot be proved.

which morals are not addressed by the 10 commandments or other religious texts?

these writings are also the basis of the constitution and our laws that flow from it.

[goku]

Not exactly morals. However, they work in teams, they help themselves... they "respect" each other... to an extent of course. But you get the point...

yep :shrug:

[Boerseun]

On Animals and Morals:

 

Chimpanzee society has an identifiable set of rules that most of its members live by: They submit to those of higher rank. Females defer to males. They cherish their parents. They care for their young. They have a kind of patriotism, and defend the group against outsiders.

They share food. They abhor incest. But they have, so far as is known, no lawgivers. There are no stone tablets, no sacred books in which a code of conduct is laid out. Nevertheless, there is something like a code of ethics and morals operating among them - one that many human societies would find recognizable and, as far as it goes, congenial.

 

That's it from the mullet for tonight.

 

Sweet dreams, friends.

[questor]

the traits of the chimps are not morals as we know them. the chimps behavior could be called defensive. a chimp does not clobber a larger chimp because he knows he'll get his head bashed in. chimps are also known to form gangs to hunt and eat other chimps, not very moral as i see it. the maternal thing is more survival of the species and genetically programmed than mother love. you would not want to live by chimp rules.

the morals we live by are supposedly to create better interpersonal and societal relationships with love, some self sacrifice, humility, and doing things for others. a large step above animals behavior and motivation.

[automatic existence]

They submit to those of higher rank. Females defer to males. They cherish their parents. They care for their young. They have a kind of patriotism, and defend the group against outsiders. They share food. They abhor incest. [/Quote]

(I made the bold´s)

 

This smells a little too much of anthropomorphizing...

 

But anyway, all these so called morals, norms, rules or whatever will always help the animalman sustain life, i.e. survive & reproduce. Caringloving is therefore nothing but an egoistical act, an act of rational egoism. We give away a "little" individual freedom (i.e. beating and killing who we want) for some personal safety (i.e. the security of being protected against being beaten and killed by others.) Its a neat little contract made between society and the individual. It’s not a win win deal. Its a great problem that these rules makes us act almost un-human, i.e. suppress our natural instincts. It’s become illegal to be human. This creates discontent. Bada bing, bada boom.