goku Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 abortion is murder!the instant the sperm enters the egg another human is made, yes human.people say women's rights, what about the baby's rights?there is no punishment on this earth great enough for anyone that KILLS a baby! in a few extreme cases abortion may be an option.if the doctor says this baby will kill you, then the parents should decide what to do. that's what the doctors told my mother when she was carrying me.she prayed to god for a MIRACLE and here i am.i was born way over due weighing 11 pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 jesus dude, stop the trolling already! Let's not start another idiotic flame war like this one. Please be responsible and delete the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 all that is necassary for evil to succed is for good people to do nothing.ignore the problem and it will go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Although I recognize the import of this topic, this is a very volatile subject to carry on a science site. Please be careful asserting strong opinions as dogma. Unless you are really willing to engage in active debate about the complexity of the moral framework, I suggest you not initiate this kind of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I think a more reasonable, non inflammatory thread title like "When does life begin" would be more appropriate in the biology forum. It is a legitimate science question and a legitimate topic for science ask long as it is discussed in that context. A political argument is not appropriate and this thread will be closed if it heads that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I've often thought that until a feotus is aware abortion isn't murder, but I've no idea how long it takes for a feotus to become aware. For all I know, maybe a sperm and egg are aware to a certain extent! Kizzi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I've often thought that until a feotus is aware abortion isn't murder, but I've no idea how long it takes for a feotus to become aware. For all I know, maybe a sperm and egg are aware to a certain extent! Kizzi When someone kills you while you are sleeping is not murder because you weren't aware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I've often thought that until a feotus is aware abortion isn't murder, but I've no idea how long it takes for a feotus to become aware. For all I know, maybe a sperm and egg are aware to a certain extent!Murder by definition is the unlawful killing of one person by another. Quite often such a killing even requires malice aforethought to elevate the crime to murder. There is currently no agreement on whether or not a fetus is human or not or at what stage of development. That is why I suggest a biological discussion on stages of development instead of a discussion on abortion that will solve nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 seems to me that if the fetus is formed from human cells, that would make it human.we kill plantswe kill germswe kill animalswe kill each otherbut we abort babies? what's wrong with this picture?i think abortion is a word of convience used to cover what is really happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 seems to me that if the fetus is formed from human cells, that would make it human.Cancer is formed of human cells too. Do you think oncologists commit murder when they treat cancer patients? Wouldn't it make more sense for science to discuss a reasonable beginning of life or do you think someone that discards sperm at the sperm bank should be charged with murder? I get the feeling you are trying to provoke an emotional flame war as opposed to seeking an intellctual discussion. the instant the sperm enters the egg another human is made, yes human.people say women's rights, what about the baby's rights?From a philosophical standpoint consider the rights of the mother as well. If a woman suffers a conception as the result of rape should she forfeit her rights and be forced to carry the conceived to term? What about the women that used birth control and it failed? Do you really see it as a black and white issue or can you see the gray areas worthy of discussion? Your statement gives the impression that the rights of any conceived should be supreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I'm pro-life except for the cases of rape and when the mother's life is at risk. And maybe in case of incest. Other than that, I don't think that the woman should have the right to choose just because she and her couple couldn't refrain of having sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Other than that, I don't think that the woman should have the right to choose just because she and her couple couldn't refrain of having sex.What if she used birth control and it failed? What if it was one of the chemical birth controls that could yield a develomental defect? Should a morning after pill be allowed or should unactionable pregnancy be a risk of recreational sex, even that sex that occurs as a result of some recreational inebriation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 What if she used birth control and it failed?Still nope. They should know that birth control are not 100% effective. What if it was one of the chemical birth controls that could yield a develomental defect?That's a debatable circumstance, very tricky indeed. That's why I'm not sure for the case of incest... Should a morning after pill be allowed or should unactionable pregnancy be a risk of recreational sex, even that sex that occurs as a result of some recreational inebriation?From what I know (and hey, I may be wrong), the morning after pill just prevents the conception of the baby. So, it's OK with me. About the recreational inebriation thing... well, still no. Nobody forces the couple to drink... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 From what I know (and hey, I may be wrong), the morning after pill just prevents the conception of the baby.No, it kills the conceived. All in all it looks like you favor the position that the zygote's rights should override the mother's with the exception of force or defect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 And think about teenage mothers - Having the baby cant always be the best thing, in most cases it wont have a father and it will now lead a fairly disadvantaged life because the girl will be unable to support herself and the baby throughout its upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Abortion becomes murder at the point where viable life begins. Currently, this is objectively defined by the technology which allows the youngest permature babies to develop into normal babies. When we die, our hair continues to grow. Does that mean that burying or cremating people shortly after death is murder? Biochemistry alone does not always imply life. Conception is similar. niviene 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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