Freedom of Speech

[Qfwfq]

How do you match up:

he walks a free man but everyone treats him as guilty

with:

and there are riots in the streets and even more of a racial divide.

:Waldo:

 

In my view, anyone that would have seen a guilty verdict as racism needs to get things straight. Had there been riots, that's a serious problem that wasn't in the least solved by not convicting the man.

 

A court that fails to convict a person because of race has no business being a court, no more than a corrupt court or a partial one including those that throw people on the death row with shaky proof just because they're Black or Hispanic or whatever.

[rockytriton]

How do you match up:with::Waldo:

 

In my view, anyone that would have seen a guilty verdict as racism needs to get things straight. Had there been riots, that's a serious problem that wasn't in the least solved by not convicting the man.

 

A court that fails to convict a person because of race has no business being a court, no more than a corrupt court or a partial one including those that throw people on the death row with shaky proof just because they're Black or Hispanic or whatever.

 

I agree with you, I don't think they should have not convicted him out of fear of riots, I'm just wondering if that would have happened.

[rockytriton]

Firesign Theater was a group of comedians that made absolutly hillarious albums (those large usually black discs with grooves upon them that played by rotating them on a turntable and placing a needle attached to an arm on the machine into the afforementioned grooves) many years ago. :) They're somewhere between Cheech&Chong and Monty Python with a little Crumb comics and Mad magazine thrown in. ;)

 

"Georgie Tirebiter he's a spy and a girl delighter ... porgy fire fighter he's a student like yooooooooooou" :)

 

"Watch out for that entrenching tool!" :hyper:

 

"Oh boy groatcakes again heavy on the thirty weight" :hihi:

 

Ah yes, I remember those things, I actually had a monty python record and a couple cheech&chong ones, but never heard of the firesign theater.

[goku]

"What made America great? It was spics and niggers and wops and kikes with noses as long as your arm," Firesign Theatre. And micks and chinks and japs and frogs and bohunks and roundheads and squareheads and squidjiggers and cajuns and wogs and...

jigaboos, wetbacks, slant eyes, moon crickets, this freedom of speech thing is fun.

but that's not what it means. it means civilized protest against the government.

[lindagarrette]

What's wrong with PC?

 

Answer: exaggeration! It's perfectly right to be PC, it's perfectly right not to discriminate, but witchhunts are something better left to the times of the Inquisition. I didn't find it PC at all for OJ and MJ to get innocent verdicts.

PC is a facade. It hides the true feelings, like the wink and a nod between good ol' boys on the Senate floor.

 

If a person is prejudiced, thinks women should stay home raising the kids, or the only good Arab is a dead Arab, then it should be admissible. Why confuse the issue by lying. Being PC is not going to change the underlying attitude.

[adjective]

It may hide true feelings, etc., but it can work toward changing the social discourse. People at least begin to feel that "Hey, this might be wrong." Making laws against doing something is the same. It won't change the underlying attitude, but it prevents the behavior from being manifested.

 

And we need laws--anarchy doesn't work. PC-speech isn't legislated, but it is part of social code and conduct--and as such may work toward changing the social discourse.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure how legally feasible this is, but on TV and in sexual harassment presentations (or whatever you want to call them) you hear the example of sexist jokes in the workplace. If there is a legal precedence for that, that'd be an example of PC-speech invading freedom of speech.

[HydrogenBond]

Jokes are where freedom of speech is restricted for the sake of PC. Most jokes usually have someone or some gropup at the butt end of the joke. Sensitivity to jokes adds fuel to the fire of humor. Nobody wants to be the butt end of a joke, whether personally or via associate to a group. But maybe the 4 year olds can teach the adults the trick to jpkes that offend; sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me.

[Turtle]

... sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me.

___Nonsense; words hurt worst of all. The pain of humiliation & taunting far outlasts cuts & bruises. Repeating that little saying when we know better is an exercise in freedom of speech; so is my saying it's ludicrous. Teaching that to a child takes away an opportunity to teach them something true. :surprise:

[Qfwfq]

If a person is prejudiced, thinks women should stay home raising the kids, or the only good Arab is a dead Arab, then it should be admissible. Why confuse the issue by lying. Being PC is not going to change the underlying attitude.

I don't consider PC a matter of lying.

 

If a person thinks any of those things but avoids saying so out too loud, they aren't PC they're only "being" PC, if you know what I mean. The taboo might help to avoid people being taught prejudice, but that doesn't mean that it's enough not to say it. The real answer is when PC prevails and, if someone is prejudiced, the nonprejudiced people can have a good go against them.

 

I don't see the need to limit freedom of speech in the name of PC, the essential is for FOS not to be the privilege of a prejudiced minority.

[HydrogenBond]

___Nonsense; words hurt worst of all. The pain of humiliation & taunting far outlasts cuts & bruises. Repeating that little saying when we know better is an exercise in freedom of speech; so is my saying it's ludicrous. Teaching that to a child takes away an opportunity to teach them something true. :surprise:

 

The way I look at it ,words impact the personna or the mask of a person. It is like smudging a good make-up job, making the mask look less than perfect. If humans were more concerned with developing inner character instead of personna there is not as much superfiscial makeup to smudge. Sticks and Stones teaches inner worth and strength of character to a child. It gives them a grounding within themselves that is beyond the more delicate superfiscial makeup.

 

At the risk of being polically incorrect, this change in culture where the color of the skin or mask is more important than the content of character (reverse of what was taught by Dr Martin Luther King) is an artifact of us becoming a femimine culture. Don't get me wrong, I love women, but women adapt to the desire of men by looking attractive and being perfect. Men adapt to the security needs of women by being trustworthy and reliable, etc.. This first is a good makeup job the second is a good character. Just too much of our country, men included, are using a natural feminine adaptation implying that our culture has become predominantly feminine.

[Qfwfq]

I'd say that disregarding verbal insult is a matter of having judgement. There are cases in which to disregard it and one certainly shouldn't respond to provocation in the exact way the insulter hopes for, but experience also teaches that respect can be lost if one allows abuse and can't handle it appropriately. This makes it a stickier issue than a physical aggression.

[HydrogenBond]

I would prefer take ten insults than be hit with ten sticks or stones. If we gave people a choice between sticks and stones or insults, they might realize the insults are the lessor of evils.

 

For example , the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners. If it was war and I was captured and my captors were brutally turturing me with insults and jokes about my mother, I would also pretend it bothered me, because I am a wimp when it comes to electro-shock, physical beatings, teeth pulling, etc.. These are solders who can kill if they have too, and their job is to survive to fight another day.

[Turtle]

Sticks and Stones teaches inner worth and strength of character to a child. It gives them a grounding within themselves that is beyond the more delicate superfiscial makeup.

 

:) You miss the point son. The saying is "words can never hurt..." while metaphorically casting words as dangerous objects. It is patently false & teaching patently false information to a child builds character? :)

[HydrogenBond]

I think I understand you point. The fact of the matter words can and do hurt people, and one should not teach anyone how to use words as a weapon against another. We are both in agreement there. But in my experience it is harder to change the world than one's attitude about the world. The child will always find bullys in the world, so he or she can benefit by being taught how to desensitze themself to it. This is easier than trying to change human nature, which is what people are trying to do. I can drag the car to me or walk to the car.

 

Part of what hurt people is socially programmed. For example, in the wild west to call someone yellow was sufficient grounds to kill them in a gun fight. If someone called you yellow nowadays it would see m socorny enough to appear funny. The social associaiton is different. Reinforcing the word association is counter productive. If the term "yellow" was kept alive by PC, it would have a greater impact on childern and adults, and hurt much more. PC is creating its own reality and then trying to change reality even if it means taking away rights and liberties of others. A change within is cheaper, does not violate the rights of others, and allows one to better coexist with the ever changing social bigots.

 

If a child is being picked on by a bully, and they are not able to ignor it even after trying, give the victim child $5 to hire an older child to bully the bully.

[Turtle]

If a child is being picked on by a bully, and they are not able to ignor it even after trying, give the victim child $5 to hire an older child to bully the bully.

 

___You make a good point on taboo words, which we have only indirectly related to political correctness. Your suggestion above, while not exactly what I had in mind, does make acknowledgment of the hurtfullness of namecalling & offer an assertive course of action. Exactly what I asked for. Well done. :)