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Was Jesus A Philosopher?

Was Jesus a Philosopher?

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#1 Mpossum

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 12:25 PM

I have been going around academia for years, and some cool ideas I have been confronted with are about Jesus and the Greeks. One point to make before talking about anything here, is that Israel and Greece were protectorates of Rome during Jesus's time. Thus, it is not so farfetched to say, considering there was a parallel at all, that they had relatively similar ideologies, atleast in relation to conformity to Rome. There most likely was some cultural meshing, too. 

 

I just want to bring this up, because, if Jesus was a well known figure in Israel, how farfetched is it to say that he existed, and was a teacher of good moral character? He was like a spiritual philosopher. Modern philosophy textbooks grant philosopher status to Abraham. Why not Jesus Christ?

 

I don't want to push it too far, but sometimes I must make my points clear, and what I am saying is, say that we all understand that we grow from childlike, black and white thinkers to abstract adults, sociologically. Who's to say what is what, as modern humanity is forming, about the abstract world we are growing into? 

 

Saying there is a god, and I am not a theist in any traditional sense, I am agnostic, this is like saying that a baby came from a parent. It is a simple idea. It is quite logical, indeed. Things are born from other things, and spiritual life, as real as we all claim it to be, is something that was easy for them to say. They universalized a simple astrobiological fact.

 

Anyway, Jesus was one of the first big figures to be a proponent of women's rights. He was giving. He was a good role model, etc. He practiced basic legal ideas, such as an eye for an eye, which was an innovation in legal codes during those times. Sure, those codes required a Divine Right of Kings type of order, but it was still order. Plus, this sort of order would probably be more accepted by someone who went to UP or Harvard for the simple fact that simple logic in relation to basic human ideas are just more realistic. Here, I sway, surely, because I like people like Hegel, Jung, etc, but I am definitely still more confused here then I am with Greek ideas.

 

Therefore, was Jesus an Aristotle in his own right? I mean, Jesus has his own domain, and is very huge in the world, however, there very well may be some parallels in relation to the strengths of these different cultural philosophies and logic.



#2 A-wal

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 01:34 PM

Probably. I find it hard to believe they were able to invent this system of spiritual slavery with a central character who didn't exist and wasn't highly regarded by lots of people.

 

I don't want to push it too far, but sometimes I must make my points clear, and what I am saying is, say that we all understand that we grow from childlike, black and white thinkers to abstract adults, sociologically. Who's to say what is what, as modern humanity is forming, about the abstract world we are growing into?

Other way round. We're creative abstract thinkers as children but then we're programmed out of it to become boring left-brained unimaginitive zombies as adults.


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#3 Thoth101

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 09:57 PM

Probably. I find it hard to believe they were able to invent this system of spiritual slavery with a central character who didn't exist and wasn't highly regarded by lots of people.

 

Other way round. We're creative abstract thinkers as children but then we're programmed out of it to become boring left-brained unimaginitive zombies as adults.

Through my own research and reading many books. I came to the conclusion that the Bible Jesus didn't actually exist.

 

And that Jesus was a composite of different entities and the name was chosen at the Council of Nicea, wherein the entity Constantine ordered the various religious sects to come together and create a single religion for Rome, a Universal religion that incorporated all of the aspects of the various religions, so that all could accept and subscribe to it.

 

There was a Apollonius of Tyana who was a central figure of a certain religious order prevalent at the time in Rome and his life was incorporated into the Holy Roman religion or Catholic version of the Christian epic which became the official Roman religion I think about 300 AD.

 

Krishna another example, of India, was one of the religious cults and groups in Rome, and it seems his story was merged with that of Apollonius of Tyana. The story of Krishna  who came into the earth born of a virgin and who attempted to save people from error and sin, but who was hanged for his efforts.

 

There were also people whose religion was that of sun worshipping, where there was the sun and the 12 houses or signs, and these sun worshippers had their story in which the sun god had 12 disciples and these 12 disciples of course reflected the 12 signs of those who were the sun worshippers in Rome. This was of course an astrological religion.

 

The combination of the many different Roman religious orders or organizations, the different religious sects, forming a composite in which the central heroic character was the Son of God, having 12 disciples, being born of a virgin, whose intent and purpose was to help save mankind, and for his efforts, the entity was slain and put upon a cross; the entity also having certain miraculous powers, including that of those who can heal by touch, or raise from the dead or move into states of suspended animation, such as some of the masters of India have demonstrated in various times throughout history.

 

There also seems to be some Egyptian philosophies put into the story such as dying and being resurrected. You come to this part of their story as well:

 

The ancient Egyptians revered Ra as the god who created everything. Also known as the Sun God, Ra was a powerful deity and a central god of the Egyptian pantheon. The ancient Egyptians worshiped Ra more than any other god and pharaohs often connected themselves with Ra in their efforts to be seen as the earthly embodiment of the Sun God.

https://www.ancient-egypt-online.com/egyptian-god-ra.html

 

Lots of interesting information on that here:

http://www.egyptorigins.org/ejc.htm



#4 A-wal

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:50 AM

Through my own research and reading many books. I came to the conclusion that the Bible Jesus didn't actually exist.

Yes, much of the Jesus story was shoehorned in from other earlier stories but it would have been much easier to do that using an already iconic and idolised figure.


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#5 Turtle

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 07:28 PM

Jesus was a Savant, much like Mozart. Schooled in mystic Judaism, he learned the stage magic of Moses. He struck out on his own and lived by the generosity & gullibility of others. Think David Blaine on the con. Philosophy guides the setup.:turtle:

#6 Turtle

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 07:29 PM

Saw a woman in half, nail a guy to wood. Ain't no thang.

#7 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:37 PM

Yes, much of the Jesus story was shoehorned in from other earlier stories but it would have been much easier to do that using an already iconic and idolised figure.

Yes, for sure. A bit of ancient borrowing.



#8 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:38 PM

Jesus was a Savant, much like Mozart. Schooled in mystic Judaism, he learned the stage magic of Moses. He struck out on his own and lived by the generosity & gullibility of others. Think David Blaine on the con. Philosophy guides the setup. :turtle:

Which Jesus? Will the real Jesus please stand up. :lol:



#9 Flummoxed

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 07:13 AM

Which Jesus? Will the real Jesus please stand up. :lol:

 

As you mention there is zero historical evidence that the biblical jesus existed.

 

How about John the Baptist, who lost his head :)

 

Maybe someone found it giving rise to the skull and cross bones symbol, of the masons, templars etc

 

Edit 6 John of Jerusalem circa 1010AD wrote revelations, a war to end all wars, which might have given rise to the crusades, and lots of fanatics. John (of Briennne )the 2nd of jerusalem has his finger in the crusade pie somewhere as well. :)

 

Edit 1 this might have been the background to the little fight they had something to do with felling of a tree, where they managed to kill a lot of them selves because of a little split in beliefs rofl;   

 

Edit 3 in 1095 the templars groups had a fracar over the holy land militi templar scotia, versus  Juan de jerusalem group. 

 

It may be that the water dunking john, might have existed, and stories of his meeting with jesus, is a fabrication from constantine to graft sun worship onto johns ideas(christianity) to give the jesus myth credibility. 

 

Appolinius is too late in history, to be a jesus substitute. 

 

Edit 2 John the Baptist may also have been known as the Goat of Mendiz or Baphomet which apparently means seeker or searcher for the truth. John may also have had a Roman father. 

 

Edit 4 More amusement from the heliocentro:) Thoth reincarnated as Akenhatum who was Moises, who reincarnated as Solomon, who reincarnated as john the baptist and is due to reincarnate a few years back maybe its david icke :)

 

Edit 5 forgot they are all children of the sun who reapear every 2000 years, to give us advice on sexism and old world views. Something to do with the alignment of Orion, oh and elejha comes into it somewhere with flying saucers :)


Edited by Flummoxed, 29 July 2020 - 07:49 AM.


#10 Thoth101

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:55 PM

  • There is no first century secular evidence that he existed - all sources are either Christian or Jewish
  • The earliest New Testament writings are vague on details of his life - they become more fleshed out in later texts
  • The eyewitness accounts in the four canonical gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) are all second hand
  • The gospels make contradictions about his life 
  • Modern scholars who claim to have uncovered the 'real Jesus' contradict each other
 

Furthermore, Raphael Lataster, a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Sydney, explained in an article for the Washington Post:

The earliest sources only reference the clearly fictional Christ of Faith. These early sources, compiled decades after the alleged events, all stem from Christian authors eager to promote Christianity – which gives us reason to question them.

 

Bart Ehrman, the author of Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth, argues that Jesus' fallibility is good reason for his existence.

The Messiah was supposed to overthrow the enemies – and so if you're going to make up a messiah, you'd make up a powerful messiah. You wouldn't make up somebody who was humiliated, tortured and the killed by the enemies.

https://www.indy100....s-exist-7489786

 

This website answers all your questions:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

 

Comparing Dates of Birth

The precise birth date of Apollonius of Tyana is unknown. The birth date of Jesus Christ is also unknown, but sometimes asserted and speculated upon. However, it is generally thought that the two lived around the same time. The most common estimates for his birth put it around 15 CE and his death around 100 CE, though some quote his lifespan as “more than 100 years,” which would make those dates inaccurate. Another kink in the estimate is that some say he was older than Jesus Christ. The above dates would make him slightly younger than the commonly cited date of Jesus Christ’s birth.

https://www.historic...onius-of-tyana/

 



#11 Flummoxed

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 04:49 AM

Apollonius was born into a respected and wealthy Greek family.[2][3] Although the precise dates of his birth and death are uncertain. His primary biographer, Philostratus the Elder (circa 170 – c. 247), places him circa 3 BC – c. 97 AD.[1][4]

 

Jesus was meant to be king of the Jews, they wrote zip about any king called Jesus.

 

Apollinius was Greek ie not King of the Jews. 

 

Christianity is a hodge podge of religious ideas from throughout the Roman Empire, developed by Constantine at Nicea from the various competing religions at the time. It was likely meant to help stop the breakup of a failing Roman Empire. 

 

John the Baptist, Baphomet, might have existed. He lost his head, ie was not crucified. Any dunking with Jesus is intended to show him as subordinate.

 

The ??? Templars recovered bones from near Jerusalem, possibly of JTB, reulting in the historical skull and cross bones. 

 

Interestingly when the Templars were mostly kicked out of europe many took up piracy, or went to scotland. The pirate flag "jolly roger" is templar in origin.



#12 VictorMedvil

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:08 AM


Edited by VictorMedvil, 30 July 2020 - 08:16 AM.

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#13 Flummoxed

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:10 AM

John the Baptist maybe existed and left a few bones behind or maybe they are someone elses https://www.national...science-higham/



#14 Thoth101

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:18 AM

John the Baptist maybe existed and left a few bones behind or maybe they are someone elses https://www.national...science-higham/

In religio-mythology, John the Baptist, the noted figure, in Christianity, who famously "baptizes" Jesus, is the Roman recension rewrite of the Egyptian god Anubis, the god who plays the main role in "anointing" Osiris.

 

Overview
The Egyptian chief mortuary god of the dead Osiris, called "Anubis", i.e. A-Nu-bis, by the Greeks (800BC), signified by the hieroglyphic nameAnubis (Anpu) H1 or Anubis H2, i.e. the Maat feather (truth/moral) + water (Nu) + square (heaven?) + bird (?) + god or jackal god symbol, by the Egyptians (3100BC), transliterated by the Hebrews (500BC) as ‘Yanapu’ or ‘Yanape’ (Murdock, 2008), from Ya- "god/father" + -Napu, -Npu, or -Nape "Anubis", akin to "Yani" being the Hebrew equivalent of John, similar to Yahweh, the Hebrew god, pronounced as (/ˈjɑːhweɪ/, i.e. Ja-Way, meaning "god the father", which became ‘Ionais’ (Latin), in Roman times (Ion is means John), and "John", in modern English, which, in decoded speak, is short for "god Anubis" (Massey, 1906).

 

In c.710, Bede connected John the Baptist with the Aquarius constellation.

 

In 1906, Gerald Massey had decoded that the Christian character of "John the Baptist", according to Dorothy Murdock (2008), is a re-write of “Anup the Anointer" and or Anup the herald", aka Anubis, as he puts it. Anubis was the anointer Osiris before his resurrection, and also, supposedly, baptized Horus, the son of Osiris, with water; an excerpt of Massey's detailed digression on this is the following: [4]

 

“It now became the mission of Horus to make known the newly-found father in heaven to those who had not so much as heard of the holy spirit. It was the work of the anointed and beloved son to found the kingdom of heaven for the father in the father's name. He became the teacher of the coming kingdom, previously proclaimed by Anup [Anubis] the herald and forerunner who was his John the Baptist crying in the wilderness of the underworld

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Read on:

http://www.eoht.info...ohn the baptist



#15 Thoth101

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:30 AM

Apollonius was born into a respected and wealthy Greek family.[2][3] Although the precise dates of his birth and death are uncertain. His primary biographer, Philostratus the Elder (circa 170 – c. 247), places him circa 3 BC – c. 97 AD.[1][4]

 

Jesus was meant to be king of the Jews, they wrote zip about any king called Jesus.

 

Apollinius was Greek ie not King of the Jews. 

 

Christianity is a hodge podge of religious ideas from throughout the Roman Empire, developed by Constantine at Nicea from the various competing religions at the time. It was likely meant to help stop the breakup of a failing Roman Empire. 

 

John the Baptist, Baphomet, might have existed. He lost his head, ie was not crucified. Any dunking with Jesus is intended to show him as subordinate.

 

The ??? Templars recovered bones from near Jerusalem, possibly of JTB, reulting in the historical skull and cross bones. 

 

Interestingly when the Templars were mostly kicked out of europe many took up piracy, or went to scotland. The pirate flag "jolly roger" is templar in origin.

What you are not understanding is they incorporated some of the story of Apollonius into the Jesus story.

 

Born of a virgin, he was hailed as the son, and incarnation, of a god. In his youth, he was
precocious and celebrated for his wisdom. He traveled widely, accompanied by a small band of
disciples and spreading a gospel that touted spiritual enlightenment. He healed the sick, cast out
demons, and even raised the dead. Near the end of his life, his enemies brought malicious
charges against him, and he was compelled to face trials before Roman authorities. Some say
that, not long afterwards, he died, but others that he ascended directly to heaven. Even after his
departure from the earth, he reappeared to his disciples to assure them of his immortality.
His name was Apollonius of Tyana, an itinerant Pythagorean philosopher of the first century
CE. But I might just as well have been describing another first-century holy man, Jesus of
Nazareth. Apollonius was born at Tyana in Cappadocia around the same time as Jesus and died
not long after the Emperor Domitian’s own death (96 CE). The details of Apollonius’ life are
related in Flavius Philostratus’ massive eight-book semi-biography, The Life of Apollonius,
hereafter referred to as VA (from the Latin, Vita Apollonii). Its Greek title is τὰ ἐς τὸν Τυανέα
Ἀπολλώνιον, The Stories of Apollonius of Tyana, or alternately, In Honor of Apollonius of
Tyana. Flavius Philostratus of Athens (170-245 CE) was a sophist in the court of the Severan
emperors who wrote VA at the behest of Septimius Severus’s Syrian wife, Julia Domna.

 

PHILOSTRATUS’S APOLLONIUS:
A CASE STUDY IN APOLOGETICS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE
Andrew Mark Hagstrom

Hagstrom_unc_0153M_16690.pdf.pdf



#16 Thoth101

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:18 AM

http://www.eoht.info/page/Jesus

In religio-mythology, Jesus (CR:206), from the Hebrew Ja- meaning “god” + Egyptian -Horus, i.e. “god son” (of Osiris), plus "Yes" or Bacchus (aka Osiris) (Volney, 1771), is the Roman recension name of the dying and rising god, astro-theologically based on the perceptual yearly dying and rising Orion constellation (the root of Osiris myth, turned Bacchus myth, turned Jesus story), aka the dying and rising hunter (Greek), warrior, or god (ancient Egypt), is the first name of Jesus Christ, the purported, albeit mythological, founder of Christianity; the Roman empire monotheistic reformulation of the Osiris (god the father) and Horus (god the son) vs Set (devil) story.

Overview
In 1239, Frederick II asserted that Jesus was an imposter.

In 1514, Pope Leo X stated that Jesus or Christ was a fable and a profitable superstition.

In 1771, Constantin Volney decoded the the etymology of Jesus from Bacchus (the Greek version of Osiris) as follows:

 

“Volney has shown that Yes was one of the names of Bacchus, which, with the Latin termination, is nothing else than Yesus, or Jesus.”
 Robert Taylor (1829), The Diegesis (pg. 186)

In 1817, Napoleon Bonaparte put forward his reasoned opinion that Jesus never existed:

 

“I have dictated thirty pages on the world’s three religions; and I have read the Bible. My own mind is made up. I do not think Jesus Christ ever existed.”

In 1912, American church historian Shirley Case, in her The Historicity of Jesus, attempted to refute the contention that Jesus never existed. [1]

In 2014, Richard Carrier, in his On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason to Doubt, wherein he describes himself as a “marginally renowned atheist”, attempts to argue that Jesus as an historical figure never existed, but rather the figure of Jesus is a mythical aggregate, or something along these lines. [2]

 

 

Quotes
The following are related quote:


 

“In my personal experience, it’s easier to find and atheist practicing the teachings of Jesus than a Christian.”
— Phillip Slater (2011), “Is Religion Inherently Homicidal?”, May 25 (Ѻ)(Ѻ)

 

“The original Hebrew-Aramaic name of Jesus is yeshu‘a, which is short for yehōshu‘a (Joshua) [compare: Joshua 10:13], just as Mike is short for Michael. The name yeshu‘a occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily referring to the high priest after the Babylonian exile, called both yehōshu‘a (see, e.g., Zechariah 3:3) and, more frequently, yeshu‘a (see, e.g., Ezra 3:2). So, Yeshua’s name was not unusual; in fact, as many as five different men had that name in the Old Testament. And this is how that name came to be “Jesus” in English: Simply stated, this is the etymological history of the name Jesus: Hebrew/Aramaic yeshu‘a became Greek Iēsous, then Latin Iesus, passing into German and then, ultimately, into English, as Jesus.”
— Michael Brown (2013), “What is the Original Hebrew Name for Jesus?” (Ѻ)

References
1. Case, Shirley J. (1912). The Historicity of Jesus: A Criticism of the Contention that Jesus Never Lived, a Statement of the Evidence for His Existence, an Estimate of His Relation to Christianity. University of Chicago Press.
2. Carrier, Richard. (2014). On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason to Doubt. Sheffield Phoenix Press.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#17 Thoth101

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 02:30 AM

http://www.eoht.info/page/Jesus+Christ

Transubstantiation | Osiris cakes
The origin of Catholic practice of “transubstantiation” is an inherited version of the ancient Egyptian ritual of making the Osiris cakes, i.e. bread made being symbolic of the reborn or regrown god Osiris, which took place during the annual 30-day Khoiak festival. [5]

Death and Resurrection of Jesus | John 19-20
 

See main: Death and Resurrection of Jesus; Compare: Death and Resurrection of Osiris

The sentencing, crucifixion, and death of Jesus, is told in John 19 (Ѻ), and in an alternative re-telling (Ѻ) in Matthew 27; and in Mark Luke.

Thoth heals Horus' eye | Jesus heals blind man's eye
The following shows how the story of Thoth healing Horus's right eye (see: eye of Horus), by spitting on it and touching it, after it had been torn out by Set, was changed into the story of Jesus healing a blind man's eyes by spitting on them and touching them:

 

Thoth heals Horus' eye (Jesus heals blind man's eye)

 

 

Soldier spears Jesus
The following is the original and rewritten version of the "sold spearing Jesus" in the story of the death of Jesus, according to John 19:33-34, in the Bible:

 

The original version (see: death and resurrection of Osiris), such as shown above left, one of the scenes on the walls at the Dendera Temple, described by Auguste Mariette (1873) and Wallis Budge (1911) as "Horus opening the mouth and two eyes of Osiris with a spear", in the presence of Isis, aka "Stella Maris" as the Greeks and Romans referred to her, was conceptualized, by the Egyptians, to the effect that the two eyes refer to the sun and the moon being reborn, and the opening of the mouth symbolic of the big dipper putting the breath of life into the Orion constellation before it rises from the dead, conceptualized as the god Sah, prior to later syncretism with Osiris.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Jesus resurrection | Osiris mummification
The following, below left, from the Temple at Dendera (Ѻ), shows how the resurrection of Osiris became re-written into the resurrection of Jesus:

 

The following (Ѻ) shows the shows the Isis (aka Stella Maris) on top of the tomb of Osiris, which became rewritten into Matthew 27:59-61 as “And when Joseph [god Geb] had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against thesepulchre.”    

 

 

 

  In the original version a mummified dead Osiris, had to be oiled, then wrapped in linen, after which during the "black rite", wherein the god Thoth stopped time, Osiris, as described in the story of the Passion of Osiris, is brought back to life by the power of the double resurrection sex with the goddesses Isis (Stella Maris) and Nephthys (Stella Maris' sister), in the form of kites, who bring him back to terrestrial life long enough to conceive the man-god child Horus. In the Christian version, Jesus is crucified, then oiled, and wrapped in linen, and only after TWO females named Mary, i.e. Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene, clime "on top of" the sepulcher, which is a literary way of saying they have resurrection sex with the dead Jesus, is Jesus reborn into the afterlife.