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My Idea Of How Apes Turned Into Humans

Apes into human Human evolution

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#35 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:50 AM

Not dumb, thankyou, it is all about your very poor use of correct terminology, and loose use of terms and definitions, you said 'humans are apes and evolved from apes'.

 

That is incorrect, our common ancestor is a 'great apes', but we DID NOT evolve from modern apes, modern apes (and that includes humans, or correctly primates) evolved from a common ancestor, and no we cannot reproduce with that common ancestor or with out other primate cousins.. 

 

Again, you're playing free and loose with terminology and semantics.. I am guessing you do in fact actually know that.

 

 

Humans are a member of the great apes and so was the LCA of humans and chimpanzees.

 

That is a correct statement.

 

You are the one playing with words by inserting the word "modern" which was never a part of the argument.

 

So shove off.



#36 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:53 AM

I mean if a dog could think rationally for a minute they might wonder how their got to be so many different breeds of dogs. And if you told them humans did it, they may have a hard time believing it.

 

That's very deep Thoth. Do you have these sort of thoughts often?


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#37 Mutex

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:54 AM

Humans are a member of the great apes and so was the LCA of humans and chimpanzees.

 

That is a correct statement.

 

You are the one playing with words by inserting the word "modern" which was never a part of the argument.

 

So shove off.

 

what does 'note 1' say? 

 

And I see you are also playing with words by using 'great apes', again, you started this, you said we evolved from apes and we are apes, so you are saying we are what we evolved from... So I guess we can agree to disagree, but there is no needs to get petty and nasty.. Lets keep it classy.. 



#38 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 02:57 AM

That's very deep Thoth. Do you have these sort of thoughts often?

I am always trying to think outside the box. We ourselves have done a lot of genetic engineering naturally with animals. As above so below would lead me to believe as we think of animals, a more intelligent species then us also thinks of us as animals and would experiment. Well in reality we are actually animals also.


Edited by Thoth101, 28 July 2020 - 03:02 AM.


#39 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:02 AM

what does 'note 1' say? 

 

And I see you are also playing with words by using 'great apes', again, you started this, you said we evolved from apes and we are apes, so you are saying we are what we evolved from... So I guess we can agree to disagree, but there is no needs to get petty and nasty.. Lets keep it classy.. 

 

 Hey look, you are really getting to be annoying. I gave you a QUOTE and a cladogram.

 

For the LAST time, humans are members of the clade which is the great apes, and the LCA of humans and chimpanzees is also a member of that clade. Therefore, the LCA of humans and chimpanzees was also a great ape.

 

Do NOT accuse me of playing with word when I gave you a QUOTE that says the same thing that I am saying

 

The end.

 

Argumentative and annoying posts will be removed at mod discretion

 

If argumentative and annoying posts continue a warning will be given of further mod action


Edited by OceanBreeze, 28 July 2020 - 03:15 AM.
add something


#40 Mutex

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:16 AM

 Hey look, you are really getting to be annoying. I gave you a QUOTE and a cladogram.

 

For the LAST time, humans are members of the clade which is the great apes, and the LCA of humans and chimpanzees is also a member of that clade. Therefore, the LCA of humans and chimpanzees was also a great ape.

 

Do NOT accuse me of playing with word when I gave you a QUOTE that says the same thing that I am saying

 

The end.

 

Argumentative and annoying posts will be removed at mod discretion

 

If argumentative and annoying posts continue a warning will be given of further mod action

 

You should not be a moderator on this site, you do not have the maturity for the job... But you will delete this as well I guess... 


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#41 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:19 AM

You should not be a moderator on this site, you do not have the maturity for the job... But you will delete this as well I guess... 

 

 

No, I won't delete this. You have a right to express that opinion and if the admins agree I will be demoded. That is fine with me.

 

But as a mod I have the discretion to remove posts that are simply arguing the same point over and over again even after evidence and explanations have been given.



#42 Mutex

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:30 AM

So you won't delete my posts, except every post that shows that you are wrong... OK... That's your right (for now), but it kind of shows you know that I am right and you can't defeat my argument.. 

 

But it's not very good that you have to delete posts because you can't form an argument to counter it, and I made a statement that shows that you are WRONG.. 

 

But I made my case (you deleted it though), but what I said is correct, and it is correct according TO WHAT YOU SAY, so if what you say annoys you, you might want to delete yourself.

 

I'm done with this debate anyway, I will just declare victory and move on.. (to something interesting).


Edited by Mutex, 28 July 2020 - 03:39 AM.


#43 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:37 AM

No, I won't delete this. You have a right to express that opinion and if the admins agree I will be demoded. That is fine with me.

 

But as a mod I have the discretion to remove posts that are simply arguing the same point over and over again even after evidence and explanations have been given.

Yea, I am still wondering where my 911 thread went. :crying:  :crying:



#44 Mpossum

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 05:10 AM

I am new here. This certainly got interesting. I did take Physical Anthro in college, and all I remember is there's so little evidence for how we got here. What I see being talked about is the idea of cladistics. I also remember it being called systematics. It's the tree and branches in which animals share a common line of ancestry. I remember there being the new world and old world monkeys, and we are more related to the old world monkeys. If you are a proponent of there being other mysterious causes to how we got here, and besides my hypothesis, I would check out punctuated equilibrium. This happens when there are sudden evolutionary leaps, and thus this explains, to some, why we came about in such a fast way, and to the point where there is little fossil evidence; it just happened so fast, some postulate.



#45 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 06:05 AM

I am new here. This certainly got interesting. I did take Physical Anthro in college, and all I remember is there's so little evidence for how we got here. What I see being talked about is the idea of cladistics. I also remember it being called systematics. It's the tree and branches in which animals share a common line of ancestry. I remember there being the new world and old world monkeys, and we are more related to the old world monkeys. If you are a proponent of there being other mysterious causes to how we got here, and besides my hypothesis, I would check out punctuated equilibrium. This happens when there are sudden evolutionary leaps, and thus this explains, to some, why we came about in such a fast way, and to the point where there is little fossil evidence; it just happened so fast, some postulate.

 

 

Human evolution from the archaic apes to where we are today didn’t happen fast at all, it has taken millions of years. Rather than a lack of evidence, we have a host of human transitional fossils (and fossils from our ancient cousins). There is Sahelanthropus tchadensis, which is some 6 or 7 million years old, and which appears on the cladogram I posted as the possible last common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans. Then there is Ardipithecus ramidus, which is 4.5 million years old. We also have Homo rudolfensis, at 2.5 million years old. Australopithecus sediba,1.9 million years. Homo erectus, Homo floresiensis, Homo habilis, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis and on and on. Incidentally ALL of these are apes, including present day humans.



#46 OceanBreeze

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 06:07 AM

Yea, I am still wondering where my 911 thread went. :crying:  :crying:

 

Must be a conspiracy.



#47 Mpossum

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 06:35 AM

I don't subscribe to the creationist view of Punctuated Equilibrium, but I sure do like telling people about it, so they can see all the variables at play. My hypothesis on fitness and strength is sort of where I stand. I like to make my own decisions, as long as I am in the right place. I don't think only data is important; I honestly think that learning things right are important, and that takes a good ethic, or a long time. I have always been a classical learner, and I write and fill notebooks, mark my book, among other things. I keep things in a logical order, and also debate in relation to Categories, and simple things like this.



#48 A-wal

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 10:45 AM

So in your theory did the Neanderthals come from Apes also?

My theory? :) Humans and neaderthals, like every other species, evolved from earlier versions of their own species, so yes apes going back to a certain point in the past. The line we draw to differentiate between species and groups of species are entirely arbitrary when you include earlier versions of those species because it happens gradually.

 

Also why is the human species more intelligent then the Neanderthals or is that big misconception?

They had bigger brains but there are many forms of intelligence. My guess is they were technically more intelligent than us but it was in other ways like memory (many apes have a much better short term memory than us) whereas we were smarter.

 

But the question is how would it be possible that they have a child together naturally? A human can't have a child with an ape naturally.

Humans are apes! The same way a lion and tiger or horse and donkey (mule) can reproduce. Mules can't reproduce with horses or donkies, only other mules. I'm not sure how it works with ligers and tigons, I think it's a bit more complicated.

 

Well we can atleast agree that Neanderthals or humans didn't come from apes.

We are apes and we evolved from earlier species of apes.

 

You do not know for sure who or what created what. So you can't positively say aliens have nothing to do with this. You would have to prove aliens didn't have anything to do with what went on in this Earth in the past. And I would have to prove they did. Which is why we have theories but we can't factually say either way.

We can't prove that the universe wasn't created by the flying spaghetti monster. There the possibility that it didn't which can't be proved and the possibility that it did that can't be disproved. These two possibilities do not deserve to be assumed to have equal merit, which is the whole point of His noodly goodness.

 

You do have to wonder though why all these ancient writings about it though and those that came from the sky.

Not good enough! An interesting possible indication of early contact at best.

 

How can you say I am wrong when these are all just theories?

You could say that about basically anything. You're just flat out wrong that humans aren't apes, it's an arbitrary categorisation of a group of animals that happens to include us.

 

If we are still apes why can't we reproduce naturally with them?

The same reason boas can't mate with pythons. They're snakes and even both constrictors but they're different species just like there are different species of apes.

 

There is one fact though, that we are all mammals but something very interesting is that we have a reptilian part of the brain.

We have a part of the brain that does the same job as a reptile's brain. I think there's basically three layers, reptilian brain at the core (that all mammals have so not really reptilian but it basically all that reptiles have), the mammalian brain that all obviously mammals have but reptiles don't and then the human only bit on the outside.

I'm not sure the info in that paragraph is entirely accurate but I think it is.

 

If we evolved from Chimps shouldn't we be able to reproduce with them?

We didn't evolve from chimps! How many more times? Current species did not evolve from other current species. All current species had a common ancestor and the most recent common ancestor that we share with another current species we share with chimps which is why we have more DNA in common with them than anything else.

 

I mean if a dog could think rationally for a minute they might wonder how their got to be so many different breeds of dogs. And if you told them humans did it, they may have a hard time believing it.

Knowing them they're so trusting and adorable they'd believe anything we told them, cats not so much. That's a bit different though, different breeds of dogs are still the same species. That's why they can reproduce with each other.

 

So I guess we can agree to disagree, but there is no needs to get petty and nasty.. Lets keep it classy.. 

Good luck with that.

 

I am always trying to think outside the box.

Why don't you try thinking inside the box too from time to time as well?

 

As above so below...

I hate it when people butcher that quote. "That which is above corresponds to that which is below and that which is below corresponds to that which is above to achieve the miracle of oneness." What makes you think that's applicable here?

 

Argumentative and annoying posts will be removed at mod discretion

 

If argumentative and annoying posts continue a warning will be given of further mod action

:) But you're the one doing it! Do as I say, not as I do.

 

So you won't delete my posts, except every post that shows that you are wrong... OK... That's your right (for now), but it kind of shows you know that I am right and you can't defeat my argument.. 

 

But it's not very good that you have to delete posts because you can't form an argument to counter it, and I made a statement that shows that you are WRONG.. 

 

But I made my case (you deleted it though), but what I said is correct, and it is correct according TO WHAT YOU SAY, so if what you say annoys you, you might want to delete yourself.

 

I'm done with this debate anyway, I will just declare victory and move on.. (to something interesting).

He deleted your post because it proved him wrong? :)

 

Yea, I am still wondering where my 911 thread went. :crying:  :crying:

And they've started deleting posts that they don't agree with, slippery slope.


Edited by A-wal, 28 July 2020 - 10:46 AM.

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#49 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:22 PM

I am new here. This certainly got interesting. I did take Physical Anthro in college, and all I remember is there's so little evidence for how we got here. What I see being talked about is the idea of cladistics. I also remember it being called systematics. It's the tree and branches in which animals share a common line of ancestry. I remember there being the new world and old world monkeys, and we are more related to the old world monkeys. If you are a proponent of there being other mysterious causes to how we got here, and besides my hypothesis, I would check out punctuated equilibrium. This happens when there are sudden evolutionary leaps, and thus this explains, to some, why we came about in such a fast way, and to the point where there is little fossil evidence; it just happened so fast, some postulate.

There is evidence on how we got here you just have to dig and you will find some interesting things in old ancient texts. But can we confirm them to be more then myths? No, we can not. I have used different methods such as researching channeled material which has some interesting interpretations also. But that also can't be classified as total facts or truth. Sometimes it seems like the past was covered up and some don't want us to know what humans past on this Earth was. You can find some interesting information in the natives beliefs who's past hasn't been totally desecrated.



#50 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:23 PM

Must be a conspiracy.

What else is new? :lol:



#51 Thoth101

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 09:35 PM

My theory? :) Humans and neaderthals, like every other species, evolved from earlier versions of their own species, so yes apes going back to a certain point in the past. The line we draw to differentiate between species and groups of species are entirely arbitrary when you include earlier versions of those species because it happens gradually.

 

They had bigger brains but there are many forms of intelligence. My guess is they were technically more intelligent than us but it was in other ways like memory (many apes have a much better short term memory than us) whereas we were smarter.

 

Humans are apes! The same way a lion and tiger or horse and donkey (mule) can reproduce. Mules can't reproduce with horses or donkies, only other mules. I'm not sure how it works with ligers and tigons, I think it's a bit more complicated.

 

We are apes and we evolved from earlier species of apes.

 

We can't prove that the universe wasn't created by the flying spaghetti monster. There the possibility that it didn't which can't be proved and the possibility that it did that can't be disproved. These two possibilities do not deserve to be assumed to have equal merit, which is the whole point of His noodly goodness.

 

Not good enough! An interesting possible indication of early contact at best.

 

You could say that about basically anything. You're just flat out wrong that humans aren't apes, it's an arbitrary categorisation of a group of animals that happens to include us.

 

The same reason boas can't mate with pythons. They're snakes and even both constrictors but they're different species just like there are different species of apes.

 

We have a part of the brain that does the same job as a reptile's brain. I think there's basically three layers, reptilian brain at the core (that all mammals have so not really reptilian but it basically all that reptiles have), the mammalian brain that all obviously mammals have but reptiles don't and then the human only bit on the outside.

I'm not sure the info in that paragraph is entirely accurate but I think it is.

 

We didn't evolve from chimps! How many more times? Current species did not evolve from other current species. All current species had a common ancestor and the most recent common ancestor that we share with another current species we share with chimps which is why we have more DNA in common with them than anything else.

 

Knowing them they're so trusting and adorable they'd believe anything we told them, cats not so much. That's a bit different though, different breeds of dogs are still the same species. That's why they can reproduce with each other.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Why don't you try thinking inside the box too from time to time as well?

 

I hate it when people butcher that quote. "That which is above corresponds to that which is below and that which is below corresponds to that which is above to achieve the miracle of oneness." What makes you think that's applicable here?

 

:) But you're the one doing it! Do as I say, not as I do.

 

He deleted your post because it proved him wrong? :)

 

And they've started deleting posts that they don't agree with, slippery slope.

Not sure where it has been butchered the ancient Hermetic saying: “As Above, so Below,” meaning “That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below.

 

I was meaning that as we genetically engineer and naturally engineer animals ourselves chances are if not in the past the same was done to us by the "sky gods". For all we know they could have created all these different species of apes just like we would do with animals.