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#1 montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 10:56 AM

https://www.breitbar...-party-primary/

 

A new book just coming out, written by an extreme right Breitbarter. They claim:

 

 


The 2020 Democratic Party presidential primary was to be defined by debate over a set of unabashedly socialist policies: free health care (“Medicare for All”), free college, free passage across the border, free jobs, free abortion on demand, and an environment free of fossil fuels (the Green New Deal).

Mostly all of which are completely accepted as the norm in Canada, while a significant number of Americans consider to be socialism/communism!

 

Are the American people still so far behind on 'social' reform' and 'socially responsible' capitalism that they believe this pap?

 

Opinions?


Edited by montgomery, 14 July 2020 - 11:02 AM.


#2 VictorMedvil

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 12:42 PM

https://www.breitbar...-party-primary/

 

A new book just coming out, written by an extreme right Breitbarter. They claim:

 

 

Mostly all of which are completely accepted as the norm in Canada, while a significant number of Americans consider to be socialism/communism!

 

Are the American people still so far behind on 'social' reform' and 'socially responsible' capitalism that they believe this pap?

 

Opinions?

I disagree with socialism as that will just increase taxes. anytime you say "Free" that means that they will increase taxes to pay for that. The U.S. government already doesn't have enough money to pay for all the socialist programs in place this will just make it worse(https://www.usdebtclock.org/).


Edited by VictorMedvil, 14 July 2020 - 12:47 PM.

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#3 GAHD

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:16 PM

https://www.breitbar...-party-primary/

 

A new book just coming out, written by an extreme right Breitbarter. They claim:

 

 

Mostly all of which are completely accepted as the norm in Canada, while a significant number of Americans consider to be socialism/communism!

 

Are the American people still so far behind on 'social' reform' and 'socially responsible' capitalism that they believe this pap?

 

Opinions?

Sounds like they're right? I mean "That ought to have spurred reflection among Democrats as to whether their party’s increasingly “progressive” policies had alienated the middle‐class voters they claimed to represent." is a rather salient point.

Not sure how you get "extreme right" though. They seem rather core-values republican from their writing.


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#4 montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:34 PM

I disagree with socialism as that will just increase taxes. anytime you say "Free" that means that they will increase taxes to pay for that. The U.S. government already doesn't have enough money to pay for all the socialist programs in place this will just make it worse(https://www.usdebtclock.org/).

The trouble with your reasoning Victor is that the world's happiest countries with the highest quality of life and standard of living are all capitalist countries that have pretty well everything listed in my OP. 

 

That includes Canada at the top of the list and our taxation is roughly equal to the US.

 

Here's a link Victor, with a very good explanation for what's wrong with the US.

https://www.nytimes....capitalism.html

 

A couple of years before he was convicted of securities fraud, Martin Shkreli was the chief executive of a pharmaceutical company that acquired the rights to Daraprim, a lifesaving antiparasitic drug. Previously the drug cost $13.50 a pill, but in Shkreli’s hands, the price quickly increased by a factor of 56, to $750 a pill. At a health care conference, Shkreli told the audience that he should have raised the price even higher. “No one wants to say it, no one’s proud of it,” he explained. “But this is a capitalist society, a capitalist system and capitalist rules.”

 

That's called corrupt and greedy capitalism Victor, and it's an explanation for why the American people are suffering so much.


Edited by montgomery, 14 July 2020 - 03:41 PM.


#5 VictorMedvil

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:40 PM

The trouble with your reasoning Victor is that the world's happiest countries with the highest quality of life and standard of living are all capitalist countries that have pretty well everything listed in my OP. 

 

That includes Canada at the top of the list and our taxation is roughly equal to the US.

 

Here's a link Victor, with a very good explanation for what's wrong with the US.

https://www.nytimes....capitalism.html

As I have said before worry about your own country, America will be just fine without your pinko policies.


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#6 montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:43 PM

Sounds like they're right? I mean "That ought to have spurred reflection among Democrats as to whether their party’s increasingly “progressive” policies had alienated the middle‐class voters they claimed to represent." is a rather salient point.

Not sure how you get "extreme right" though. They seem rather core-values republican from their writing.

Wrong.



#7 montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 03:47 PM

As I have said before worry about your own country, America will be just fine without your pinko policies.

Request denied Victor. America's perversions are seeping over the border to effect Canada negatively. The latest is the neo-nazi Alberta provincial government taking away the people's right to protest.



#8 A-wal

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 04:09 PM

Are the American people still so far behind on 'social' reform' and 'socially responsible' capitalism that they believe this pap?

Yes!

 

Not sure how you get "extreme right" though. They seem rather core-values republican from their writing.

The US republican core values are extreme right though, the democrats are right leaning.



#9 VictorMedvil

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Posted 14 July 2020 - 04:14 PM

 

That's called corrupt and greedy capitalism Victor, and it's an explanation for why the American people are suffering so much.

 

That is a fallacy the American people aren't suffering, you must remember that the America version of suffering is not being able to have a Starbucks coffee every morning and able to eat a steak dinner every night as someone that doesn't work living off welfare. You grossly misunderstand that situation.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 14 July 2020 - 04:14 PM.


#10 montgomery

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 10:37 AM

That is a fallacy the American people aren't suffering, you must remember that the America version of suffering is not being able to have a Starbucks coffee every morning and able to eat a steak dinner every night as someone that doesn't work living off welfare. You grossly misunderstand that situation.

If having a cup of coffee in Starbucks or having a steak every night is the measure of success Victor, then some people in Ethiopia can do the same.

 

That's no way to wave your flag Victor, you have to make the comparisons between the world's leading countries and America if you need to get any pride out of it. And my link in post #4 said nothing about having a cup of coffee anyway.

 

I quoted this from the Breitbart link: 

 

 

 

The 2020 Democratic Party presidential primary was to be defined by debate over a set of unabashedly socialist policies: free health care (“Medicare for All”), free college, free passage across the border, free jobs, free abortion on demand, and an environment free of fossil fuels (the Green New Deal).

 

This is what real freedom looks like. Not just for the very wealthy but for all the people.


Edited by montgomery, 15 July 2020 - 10:45 AM.

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#11 GAHD

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 01:51 PM

If having a cup of coffee in Starbucks or having a steak every night is the measure of success Victor, then some people in Ethiopia can do the same.

That's true! It just needs then to invest in infrastructure, and develop an appropriate fair-exchange market off of that.
 

This is what real freedom looks like. Not just for the very wealthy but for all the people.

The problem is that that requires removing freedom from others.
Who pays the teachers? Or should they work for free?

Who pays the doctors? Or should they work for free?

Let's assume taxes pay for those. Ok, why should everyone pay for something not everyone is using? A dumb person who knows they are dumb and decides to be happy working a shovel on a road-crew shouldn't have to pay for a person who THINKS they are smart getting a 12 year degree in lesbian dance theory. I'm sure the rampant inflation of university tuition costs can be worked onto both sides of the argument, but as far as I can tell only one side would be giving them a taxpayer bailout if they fail while charging those huge rates.

On that note, Canada currently has almost double the taxation the USA does, and we're no where ear providing the things on that list: Education isn't free (and what IS  free is paid for in property taxes above the general tax) Medical is only "free" for diagnostics and even then not really, College is only free when it's supported directly by the capitalist machinations of the sector in need of workers to keep pumping record profits, ant the attempts to chop away fossil fuels only work until Ontario and Quebec get a little chilly.

The other bits in the BB article are just as smarmy, and they make a very logical point when connected to how the dems are "alienating their voter base."

Most people don't understand the curbing inflation has the same end result as increasing minimum wage. They also tend not to understand that inflation is driven in a large part by government taxation of "real work" and to a lesser but significant degree by debt culture.

At the risk of digression, it's the same kind of economic flux that was seen under Harper and Trudy respective government stiles (Chretien was at least sane in his liberalism.) Looking at the differences in the Can&US economies since Orange-guy and PM-Dressup each began wielding power shows a marked example of the success differences of the two cultures.

Still trying to figure out why you use a label "extreme" next to right. That article still appears close-to-center to me...


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#12 montgomery

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 02:33 PM

That's true! It just needs then to invest in infrastructure, and develop an appropriate fair-exchange market off of that.
 

The problem is that that requires removing freedom from others.
Who pays the teachers? Or should they work for free?

Who pays the doctors? Or should they work for free?

Let's assume taxes pay for those. Ok, why should everyone pay for something not everyone is using? A dumb person who knows they are dumb and decides to be happy working a shovel on a road-crew shouldn't have to pay for a person who THINKS they are smart getting a 12 year degree in lesbian dance theory. I'm sure the rampant inflation of university tuition costs can be worked onto both sides of the argument, but as far as I can tell only one side would be giving them a taxpayer bailout if they fail while charging those huge rates.

The other bits in the BB article are just as smarmy, and they make a very logical point when connected to how the dems are "alienating their voter base."

Most people don't understand the curbing inflation has the same end result as increasing minimum wage. They also tend not to understand that inflation is driven in a large part by government taxation of "real work" and to a lesser but significant degree by debt culture.

At the risk of digression, it's the same kind of economic flux that was seen under Harper and Trudy respective government stiles (Chretien was at least sane in his liberalism.) Looking at the differences in the Can&US economies since Orange-guy and PM-Dressup each began wielding power shows a marked example of the success differences of the two cultures.

Still trying to figure out why you use a label "extreme" next to right. That article still appears close-to-center to me...

If you wish to discuss this matter here and me to answer all your questions, I''m going to have to post some links which (might) have been posted on other threads. Or I'll have to think of some other way to answer your questions, so I'll get back to you on that.



#13 A-wal

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 05:16 PM

That's true! It just needs then to invest in infrastructure, and develop an appropriate fair-exchange market off of that.

Listen up starving poor primitives of the world. Capitalism will save you! It doesn't matter that so much of your time is spent on the essential activities that keep you alive in a harsh environment or that you don't have the resources to build the type of infrastructure that countries with plenty of rain so smugly can, capitalism will magically generate wealth out of thin fcking air.
 

Still trying to figure out why you use a label "extreme" next to right. That article still appears close-to-center to me...

Well it would. You're leaning so far to the right you're going to fall off the edge of the universe if you're not careful. Are you absolutely sure you're not a fat USian in disguise?


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#14 GAHD

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 06:31 PM

Listen up starving poor primitives of the world. Capitalism will save you! It doesn't matter that so much of your time is spent on the essential activities that keep you alive in a harsh environment or that you don't have the resources to build the type of infrastructure that countries with plenty of rain so smugly can, capitalism will magically generate wealth out of thin fcking air.

I wonder what the people in 1700's and 1800's USA had as an equivalent? Did THEY bootstrap the infrastructure? Did they dig wells and hand-pump their fields every morning?
Why don't you think other people are capable of the same? You shouldn't view others as "lesser" like you seem to be, they are just as capable of innovation and hard work.

Well it would. You're leaning so far to the right you're going to fall off the edge of the universe if you're not careful. Are you absolutely sure you're not a fat USian in disguise?


Yup. I'm right wing these days. Believe it or not I USED to be left wing, but then I became educated by the School Of Hard Knocks. I'd be willing to marry a buck-toothed southern girl for a green card, but I don't currently have either. ;) No disguise here, it's not worth my time to be fake and/or put up appearances.

This BB guy is rather "core values" republican from what I've read, and seems close to center line even with that considered. Calling them "extreme" is a disservice to the word and normalizes REAL extremists(on both ends).



#15 VictorMedvil

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 07:03 PM

If having a cup of coffee in Starbucks or having a steak every night is the measure of success Victor, then some people in Ethiopia can do the same.

 

That's no way to wave your flag Victor, you have to make the comparisons between the world's leading countries and America if you need to get any pride out of it. And my link in post #4 said nothing about having a cup of coffee anyway.

 

Yes but you forget that nearly 3 billion people or half the population of this planet live on under $2.50 a day, a starbucks and steak dinner is like $25 everyday, actually statistics would tell you that many people aren't even close to living in that sort of wealth.

 

"Nearly 1/2 of the world's population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a dayMore than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty."

 

 

It is actually quite sad when you sit down and think about the true poverty of the humans on this planet, now I joke and say that Canada is the poorest country on Earth but that isn't even close to being true, just as you joke that America is the armpit of the world however that isn't true, as someone that makes between $30,000 and $100,000 a year or between $82.19 and $273.97 per day, you are actually in the top 10% in wealth.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 15 July 2020 - 07:16 PM.

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#16 Thoth101

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Posted 15 July 2020 - 10:25 PM

Wrong.

I agree with GAHD and Victor. I believe they are right in their assessments. You might be letting the Queen get to your head. :lol:

 

SHE'S THE HEAD OF STATE. Technically speaking, Queen Elizabeth is the Sovereign of the parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy of Canada. Unless you frequently use Canadian money or are particularly savvy with regard to Canadian politics, you may not have known they had any kind of monarchy.

https://www.mentalfl...ill-does-canada



#17 montgomery

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 09:32 AM

 

"Nearly 1/2 of the world's population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a dayMore than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty."

 

 

 

That's my point Victor! You're making comparisons to third world countries with America. That's fine if America doesn't aspire to be up with the world's leading countries anymore.

 

I would post some links for you to illustrate the point more clearly for you to understand, but I'm not allowed.