# Is The Designation "positive" And "negative" In Electricity Arbitrary?

electricity electromagnetism magnetism electric current Benjamin Franklin physics

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### #1 MitkoGorgiev

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 02:29 PM

No, it cannot be arbitrary at all.

(in this answer I will use the words “plus” and “minus” instead of “positive” and “negative”)

“Plus” is the effect towards outside (expansion, blowing, explosion), “Minus” is the effect towards inside (contraction, suctioning, implosion). For example, the act of inhaling is plus, because our chest expands; the act of exhaling is minus, because it reduces in size.

From the history of electromagnetism it is known that Benjamin Franklin (1705-1790) is the man who was the first to introduce the terms “positive” and “negative”, i.e. “plus/minus” in the field of electricity in the middle of the 18th century. Previously, the different types of electricity had been called “vitreous” (meaning “glass”) and “resinous” (meaning “amber”), since the glass and the amber were the most often rubbed objects to produce the opposite electricities. At the time when Franklin gave his contribution, people had actually spoken of two types of electric fluids; however, Franklin argued that there is only one electric fluid, and the excess and the shortage of it in the objects he called “plus” and “minus”. He said that bodies in normal condition have medium amounts of this fluid and are therefore neutral. When two objects are rubbed against each other, one allegedly transfers a part of its fluid to the other and thus the first becomes minus-, and the second object plus-electrified.

That these things (i.e. plus and minus in the electricity and in the magnetism) cannot be arbitrary, I have a proof which I call an ultimate proof. A proof is ultimate when we perceive the truth immediately (directly, unmediated) with our senses, in this case, with our eyes.

If we rotate the discs of a Wimshurst machine by turning the crank manually to the right in a dark room (the most noticeable results can be seen at night in a room with a little exterior street light entering it), and if we do this for at least 10-15 seconds to let the eyes get used to the feeble light, we will notice that the horizontal quadrants emit a light flicker, whereas the vertical are completely dark. On turning the crank to the left the flicker relocates to the vertical quadrants, whereas the horizontal ones now remain dark. Looking even more attentively at the scene, we will notice an essential qualitative difference between what happens in the left and the right quadrant (i.e. the upper and the lower one when the crank is turned to the left). The flicker in one horizontal quadrant is directed from the metal sectors outwards, in the other one inwards. In other words, in the left quadrant the metal sectors are dark and the flickering light glows around them, but in the right quadrant the metal sectors are illuminated and around them it is dark.

The metallic sectors in the image are drawn as a whole, and not individually, because the light phenomenon appears as a whole; more precisely, as two wholes, one left and one right, and not individually in the sectors.

The electricity of the left quadrant (picture on the left) is the same as the vitreous electricity; the electricity of the right quadrant is the same as the resinous electricity. I will not explain how this is determined, because this answer will become much longer (you can check it out at the website given in my profile). So, what Benjamin Franklin has determined as positive and negative about electricity is absolutely right.

If we fill the middle of a ring magnet (taken out of a small loudspeaker) with iron filings, then we tap the magnet to allow the iron powder to freely take its shape, a difference between the one and the other side becomes clearly visible. At the pole which points North a form of blowing is evident (as if we put the lips forward), and at the pole that points South a form of suction (as if we put the lips inwards). Hence, the plus-pole with an effect outwards is the magnetic South pole of the Earth, and the minus-pole with an effect inwards is the magnetic North pole of the Earth.

The electric current flows de jure (conventional current) and de facto (factual current) from the plus- to the minus-pole of the battery through the outer connecting path.

P.S. This is an experiment I came across recently in the book Physik, Volume 2 from the author Hermann von Baravalle (pages 83–84). Look at the setup below.

When high DC voltage is connected to it, then sparks start to jump across the upper part of the circuit.

As soon as the poles of the voltage source are reversed, then sparks start to jump across the lower part of the circuit (drawing below).

The two different ends where the sparks jump are a thick sharpened wire and a metal plate.

In this experiment we see that the sparks appear only in the branch where the Plus is connected to the sharpened metal wire, while the Minus to the metal plate. Since the Plus means blowing, the Minus means suctioning, it is much easier for the electricity to bridge this gap and not the other, because very high pressure is created at the sharpened point. We all know that the water-jet which comes out of a pipe (plus +) will reach farther if we narrow the pipe. This comparison is valuable for understanding of what happens.

At the same time, the suctioning is greater if the suctioning area is bigger.

P.P.S. Recently I found an evidence that also Franklin, contrary to the claims of many people, didn't assign the positive sign to the vitreous and the negative sign to the resinous electricity fully randomly. Here is a quotation from the book

"THEORIES OF AETHER AND ELECTRICITY - FROM THE AGE OF DESCARTES TO THE CLOSE OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY" from E.T.Whittaker (1910)

"Some curiosity will naturally be felt as to the considerations which induced Franklin to attribute the positive character to vitreous rather than to resinous electricity. They seem to have been founded on a comparison of the brush discharges from conductors charged with the two electricities; when the electricity was resinous, the discharge was observed to spread over the surface of the opposite conductor "as if it flowed from it." Again, if a Leyden jar whose inner coating is electrified vitreously is discharged silently by a conductor, of whose pointed ends one is near the knob and the other near the outer coating, the point which is near the knob is seen in the dark to be illuminated with a star or globule, while the point which is near the outer coating is illuminated with a pencil of rays;which suggested to Franklin that the electric fluid, going from the inside to the outside of the jar, enters at the former point and issues from the latter. And yet again, in some cases the flame of a wax taper is blown away from a brass ball which is discharging vitreous electricity, and towards one which is discharging resinous electricity. But Franklin remarks that the interpretation of these observations is somewhat conjectural, and that whether vitreous or resinous electricity is the actual electric fluid is not certainly known." (pages 44-45)

The bolding of the text stems from me.
As I found in the dictionary, a "wax taper" means a candle. Therefore, the flame of the candle is blown away from a vitreously electrified object; however, it is blown towards a resinously electrified one.

Franklin's remark that his interpretation of the observations is somewhat conjectural can only mean that he was not completely sure and wanted more experimental evidence.

https://youtu.be/RbKSFZX-IE8

What is electric current?

Edited by MitkoGorgiev, 23 May 2020 - 02:38 AM.

### #2 devin553344

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Posted 25 May 2020 - 05:32 AM

Pressures do not define plus and minus, electric charge can be defined as a pressure hill, while gravitation and the strong force might be a vacuum or valley. We must consider space and antispace for plus and minus of each. Cheers

### #3 MitkoGorgiev

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Posted 16 August 2020 - 01:05 PM

Pressures do not define plus and minus ....

Higher pressure is PLUS, lower pressure is MINUS.

Bernoulli's principle can be found in the electric current, too

http://www.sciencefo...ic-current-too/

Edited by MitkoGorgiev, 16 August 2020 - 01:09 PM.

### #4 devin553344

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:34 AM

Higher pressure is PLUS, lower pressure is MINUS.

Bernoulli's principle can be found in the electric current, too

http://www.sciencefo...ic-current-too/

Vacuum might attract, while pressure might repel, then space at 180 degrees might explain opposites. This is Einsteins idea of curvatures. I have built a theory calculating these values,

### #5 MitkoGorgiev

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 02:40 AM

Vacuum might attract, while pressure might repel, then space at 180 degrees might explain opposites. This is Einsteins idea of curvatures. I have built a theory calculating these values,

I don't want to be major Tom and lose the Ground bond.

Edited by MitkoGorgiev, 26 August 2020 - 02:42 AM.

### #6 sanctus

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 05:40 AM

No, it cannot be arbitrary at all.

(in this answer I will use the words “plus” and “minus” instead of “positive” and “negative”)

“Plus” is the effect towards outside (expansion, blowing, explosion), “Minus” is the effect towards inside (contraction, suctioning, implosion). For example, the act of inhaling is plus, because our chest expands; the act of exhaling is minus, because it reduces in size.

Stopped here, because you already make strange assumptions. I can say inhaling is minus because it removes air from my surrondings. Why is chest your frame of reference and not surrounding air?

### #7 devin553344

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 11:26 AM

I don't want to be major Tom and lose the Ground bond.

The fantasy is the idea that pressure has positive or negative. There is a linear scale to pressure, it goes from zero into the positive direction.

edit: I should say that the effects of multiple vacuum states may be relative so that you have expansion or compression.

Edited by devin553344, 26 August 2020 - 11:34 AM.

### #8 MitkoGorgiev

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:48 AM

Stopped here, because you already make strange assumptions. I can say inhaling is minus because it removes air from my surrondings. Why is chest your frame of reference and not surrounding air?

Yes, inhaling is Minus for the atmosphere, but it is Plus for your chest.

Exhaling is Plus for the atmosphere, but it is Minus for your chest.
What is here so strange?

### #9 devin553344

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 04:07 AM

Yes, inhaling is Minus for the atmosphere, but it is Plus for your chest.

Exhaling is Plus for the atmosphere, but it is Minus for your chest.
What is here so strange?

Then lower pressure would migrate to higher pressure or vice versa, and the more difference between pressures the greater the force. This is not the case with at least gravity, where the energy pressure of a mass determines its force, the more pressure the greater the force, which is more of a curvature concept instead of a pressure concept. And if mass is that way, then charge is probably too, since they are so closely related. The more charge the more force.