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Coronavirus Is Fake News


Vmedvil2

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I still think all this is stupid for a virus with a R0 of 3.8, it would be like shutting down everything for a Earthquake that has a magnitude of like 6, at its current rate it is only going to infect like ‭1,600,000‬ people in a year. The flu infects 45 million people every year.

 That's just in the US. The seasonal flu worldwide infects about one billion people, (nobody knows the exact number) with 5 million serious illnesses and kills over 600,000.

 

It also affects cattle and horses and other animals.

 

Why is the world in such a panic over this particular corona virus?

 

We have experience with these type of virus and several vaccines are already being developed.

 

This is mass insanity driven by the dishonest media

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 That's just in the US. The seasonal flu worldwide infects about one billion people, (nobody knows the exact number) with 5 million serious illnesses and kills over 600,000.

 

It also affects cattle and horses and other animals.

 

Why is the world in such a panic over this particular corona virus?

 

We have experience with these type of virus and several vaccines are already being developed.

 

This is mass insanity driven by the dishonest media

I agree Ocean, that's why the title of this post is Coronavirus is fake news, I guess it shows the power of the media in this world.

 

goebbelsquote.jpg

Edited by VictorMedvil
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Statistical blips! People have to die at some stage in their lives. Most people dont want to be one of the reasons for the statistical blip.

 

Its mainly the elderly dying, would you have the same opinion if it was the young, or those at the peak of their careers dying. 

 

 

 

No, I would not have the same opinion. But the reality is that it IS by far mostly the very elderly dying. That is a fact of life and much easier to accept than seeing young people dying. Again, as far as I know, nobody under the age of 30 has died from this, but there could have been one or two so don't bother looking for an exception to show me wrong.

 

 

A Delay in actions of 10 days with this virus can see it spread alarming, as we are witnessing now in America. Trumps closing down flights might have been a bit slow, and more of a knee jerk against the Chinese or the Europeans, who he sees as a threat apparently for various reasons. 

 

Is Trump fit to lead America in this crisis?  :innocent:  or would some else be more suitable to lead America through this crisis  :sherlock:  Will martial law ever be imposed in America?   :edevil:

 

 

Why do you call it a delay? This is an action that has never been taken before by any president. Ten days to make sure what is happening and then take such action is extremely fast, in my opinion.

 

It would be nice to have someone better but Trump is what we have so we should support him, not try to undermine him.

 

We are not far from martial law now in New York and California and a couple other States.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

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Thanks for that feedback.

 

My attention was drawn in particular to the following paragraphs:

 

"In an autopsy series that tested for respiratory viruses in specimens from 57 elderly persons who died during the 2016 to 2017 influenza season, influenza viruses were detected in 18% of the specimens, while any kind of respiratory virus was found in 47%. In some people who die from viral respiratory pathogens, more than one virus is found upon autopsy and bacteria are often superimposed. A positive test for coronavirus does not mean necessarily that this virus is always primarily responsible for a patient’s demise"

 

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.” If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average. The media coverage would have been less than for an NBA game between the two most indifferent teams"

 

"Yet if the health system does become overwhelmed, the majority of the extra deaths may not be due to coronavirus but to other common diseases and conditions such as heart attacks, strokes, trauma, bleeding, and the like that are not adequately treated. If the level of the epidemic does overwhelm the health system and extreme measures have only modest effectiveness, then flattening the curve may make things worse: Instead of being overwhelmed during a short, acute phase, the health system will remain overwhelmed for a more protracted period. That’s another reason we need data about the exact level of the epidemic activity"

 

So, it seems to me the main thing we need to do is not overwhelm the health care system. We can do that by staying home when we feel sick and not running to the hospital, taking a bed away from someone who really needs it. Social distancing is important, as well as tried-and-true common-sense hygiene. Confining people to their homes may do more harm than good and people can only take so much government pushing them around. If riots break out, and that is a possibility, we are all in big trouble.

Yes this is the key point and this is in fact what all the measures now being taken are designed to achieve, I think. Slow the thing down to a dribble of severe cases that the health systems can manage. To avoid what's happening in Italy in other words.

 

In the UK, where Bozo has not been quite as slow off the mark as Trump (not being fixated on trying to keep the stock market up, rather than attending to the impending health crisis), but still pretty to slow to grasp it, the government is now buying up a lot of beds in the private hospitals we have here,  to supplement the NHS.  But we are still woefully short of test kits, PPE for the NHS front line staff, and ventilators. There is now an industrial group starting a crash programme to make ventilators domestically, since we import most of them at the moment and the imports have dried up. And people. Retired doctors are being called back into service. There has even been a suggestion to get grounded aircrew to help with some of the hospital functions. Real wartime stuff. Northwick Park hospital, near Harrow in London has already declared an emergency, such that they are now turning A&E cases away and diverting them elsewhere.

 

So, while I'm sure this guy has a valid point about overall mortality and so on, the pressure on the health system is not just a forecast, it has arrived. If he's right, that must mean the actual infection rate is far greater than one would guess from the "confirmed' cases - which as I say feels right to me, from my own anecdotal experience of who I know that has got it.     

Edited by exchemist
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A lifetime of wasted votes, resulting in a very pessimistic view of politicians of all parties.

 

Politicians alive how about Angela Merkel who seems to be well respected.

Politicians dead how about Ghandi, or perhaps Mandela, 

It's not like any of that matters, all that matters is that you can get people to "Believe" you are the right choice. All politics is a (Well Funded Propaganda Machine) + (Popularity Prom King or Queen) = (Elected Official). I mean it goes back to the axiom that all politicians lie their *** off to get elected, it doesn't matter if its true or not only that the people "Believe" its true. That's why Trump hates the "Fake News" because it hurts the people's "Belief" that he was a good president or leader which is just a "Propaganda Machine" owned by 6 different corporations. This entire coronavirus situation is being created by the "Fake News" for some political agenda, you know it is, but what they may not realize is this bullshit costs people money, if people were wise they would slap the "Fake News" with a bill for the cost of this Fake Coronavirus crisis, that would straighten them up just fine them for like 5 trillion dollars or whatever this has cost the government thus far. If people really thought about it these "Fake News" people would be shot in the streets.

 

propaganda-quote-2-picture-quote-1.jpg

Edited by VictorMedvil
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A lifetime of wasted votes, resulting in a very pessimistic view of politicians of all parties.

 

Politicians alive how about Angela Merkel who seems to be well respected.

Politicians dead how about Ghandi, or perhaps Mandela, 

 

 

You are moving the goal posts from "respected by all" to "well respected"

 

I notice you do that a lot.

 

For example, you went from being all “OMG, they shut things down so now I can’t get my contract signed because ONE tourist has it!" to “Millions will die unless drastic measures are taken!" in the space of two days.

 

Anyway, this isn't about Trump. This is a global problem that started in China, remember?

 

My position hasn't changed one bit. When this is over we will find that the number of deaths from this virus will be down in the noise when compared to the number that die every year from all sorts of respiratory diseases, and when you add in the number that die every year from TB (also a respiratory illness) and malaria, this isn't of any great significance. 

 

The false fear being generated and fanned by the irresponsible media is far worse than the virus itself.

 

People need to get a grip.

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Ocean, this part of your article (also highlighted by you in a further article), almost had me convinced:

 

f the level of the epidemic does overwhelm the health system and extreme measures have only modest effectiveness, then flattening the curve may make things worse: Instead of being overwhelmed during a short, acute phase, the health system will remain overwhelmed for a more protracted period. That’s another reason we need data about the exact level of the epidemic activity"


Where this argument breaks down is that it depends not on overwhelmed or not. It depends on overwhelmed by HOW MUCH.

No flattening and little overwhelmed (= health system survives) might be better because beds needed for other things than corona 1 month in the future would be available.

No flattening and VERY overwhelmed (most nurses and doctors either infected and not working or dead-->health system breaks down) beds needed for other things than corona 1 month in the future would not be available (physically yes but no staff to man it). And this results that both during corona peak and after more people die. Maaaany more because all the non-corona stuff is also still happening.

I just would not want to gamble on this. Maybe all is hyped and it would never go so bad, but no1 says it is impossible or very unlikely.

Also WHO, does not seem to me an alarmist organisation. They do not come out with such news unless it is potentially (and with big likelihood) hardcore. Last time they were everywhere on the news was Ebola in West-Africa.

And to all the bedroom statisticians, "flu kills XXX per year, so what?". Well, did the flu ever kill 800 people in 1 country in one day? Or 569 in a day region <50km*50km (lombardy). That is the scary part.

 










 
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Ok, I do not know of the sources and hence reliability of these data, but here it is 1 in 4 under 50:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103023/coronavirus-cases-distribution-by-age-group-italy/

 

Sanctus, I think you are mixing up cases with death rates. Of course, there are many cases of people under 50 catching it, but there is a low fatality rate in that age group.

 

I know you are not doing that deliberately, but that is an example of the sort of inaccurate reporting that is out there now.

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No idea yet but i am looking for more upto date figures. Guessing I would say the 90+ figure will be much worse. 

 

Edit these figures were before the health system was over whelmed.

 

Italy may be inadvertently developing herd immunity, a policy apparently rejected by the UK government https://www.vox.com/world/2020/3/15/21180414/coronavirus-uk-herd-immunity-vallance-johnson Ultimately I think what oceanbreeze would like I think is to let the disease to ride its course and develop a herd immunity.

 

No, that isn't what I said. I do think that ultimately it will be either herd immunity or a vaccine that finally stops this, but I am not in favor of letting it run its course. I have said several times that flattening the curve is important. 

That can be done without shutting down entire countries.

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And to all the bedroom statisticians, "flu kills XXX per year, so what?". Well, did the flu ever kill 800 people in 1 country in one day? Or 569 in a day region <50km*50km (lombardy). That is the scary part.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, yes, the flu has done that and far more (1918) but nobody can draw any comfort from that fact.

 

One thing that many people miss in all this is the wording being used in the corona reports: “XXX amount of people have died after testing positive for coronavirus”

 

Notice that does not say “XXX amount of people have died from coronavirus”

 

I think that is an important distinction that needs to be made, but nobody seems interested in making, because panic is all the rage right now. Just because somebody tests positive and then dies, does not automatically mean that person’s death was caused by, or can be attributed exclusively to coronavirus.

 

That is obvious if that person gets hit by a bus but not so obvious if it is a heart attack or a stroke or any number of other serious health issues in an elderly person.

 

I really do think there is a lot of fake, or at least very exaggerated, news being reported about this. It is like some sort of mass hysteria that, once started, will be difficult to stop; even more difficult than the virus itself. The freedoms that we are willfully ceding to governments around the world now, may not ever be fully returned. To me, that is a bigger concern than catching a cold.

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Unfortunately, yes, the flu has done that and far more (1918) but nobody can draw any comfort from that fact.

 

One thing that many people miss in all this is the wording being used in the corona reports: “XXX amount of people have died after testing positive for coronavirus”

 

Notice that does not say “XXX amount of people have died from coronavirus”

 

I think that is an important distinction that needs to be made, but nobody seems interested in making, because panic is all the rage right now. Just because somebody tests positive and then dies, does not automatically mean that person’s death was caused by, or can be attributed exclusively to coronavirus.

 

That is obvious if that person gets hit by a bus but not so obvious if it is a heart attack or a stroke or any number of other serious health issues in an elderly person.

 

I really do think there is a lot of fake, or at least very exaggerated, news being reported about this. It is like some sort of mass hysteria that, once started, will be difficult to stop; even more difficult than the virus itself. The freedoms that we are willfully ceding to governments around the world now, may not ever be fully returned. To me, that is a bigger concern than catching a cold.

However the spike in deaths in Italy is a real fact. 10 pages in the newspaper instead of 1 1/2 is testament to that.

 

One can argue that the excess deaths are merely those of the old, brought forward from the future by some months or years, but it is indisputable that death rates are elevated substantially while this epidemic is taking place.  

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However the spike in deaths in Italy is a real fact. 10 pages in the newspaper instead of 1 1/2 is testament to that.

 

One can argue that the excess deaths are merely those of the old, brought forward from the future by some months or years, but it is indisputable that death rates are elevated substantially while this epidemic is taking place.  

 

I totally agree that there is a spike in deaths in Italy since this epidemic hit there.

There is no doubt that many of these deaths are related to the virus.

But, that still does not make this virus the killer that it is being portrayed as; when you consider that most of these people were quite old and had other serious conditions. The virus was the last straw for them. That is very sad as these old people are a national treasure and losing so many all at once is tragic.

But we don't need to get into a panic over this and say things like the US or the UK is on track to be the next Italy.

That most likely will not be the case.

As for the lockdowns, this is dangerous overkill.

Just my opinion.

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