# Billions In Poverty

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### #18 Flummoxed

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 05:32 AM

No, I agree with GAHD, taxes are not the solution to this issue too often are taxes not used for the good of the people but rather stuffed into the pockets of politicians and government projects that keep the elite in control, if you were to raise taxes on the wealthy likely there would be more tax breaks to the wealthy to counter-balance this because of lobbying and bribery of politicians, in a perfect world that would work however in real life it would not because of Corruption, you forget the almighty bribery power that having loads of money has. Many politicians make only like $80,000 to$120,000 a year in America but most of them have millions of dollars where do you suspect they got the difference from?

Taxing of the elite, is not something the elite might like to vote for. HRH actually volunteers to pay tax, she does not need to by law. In a corrupt selfish world there will always be poverty. Many of those politicians sitting on fortunes, inherited it from their corrupt parents, whose ancestors probably stole at gun point, or in the case of Queenie at the point of a sword.

Accepting corruption of politicians, and historic injustices, is not a way forward. A world wide revolution may be required!

Is an answer to poverty in education ? At the moment, normal people freely help other family members down on their luck. In a future world could people be educated that helping strangers can be a good thing too.

It appears to me that the general view on this forum is "take what you can and give nothing back" (pirates of the Carribean). This can only lead to failure and breakdown of society. Whereby gun law and survival of the fittest win, which appears to be the mindset being promoted in some of the previous posts.

### #19 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 05:48 AM

Taxing of the elite, is not something the elite might like to vote for. HRH actually volunteers to pay tax, she does not need to by law. In a corrupt selfish world there will always be poverty. Many of those politicians sitting on fortunes, inherited it from their corrupt parents, whose ancestors probably stole at gun point, or in the case of Queenie at the point of a sword.

Accepting corruption of politicians, and historic injustices, is not a way forward. A world wide revolution may be required!

Is an answer to poverty in education ? At the moment, normal people freely help other family members down on their luck. In a future world could people be educated that helping strangers can be a good thing too.

It appears to me that the general view on this forum is "take what you can and give nothing back" (pirates of the Carribean). This can only lead to failure and breakdown of society. Whereby gun law and survival of the fittest win, which appears to be the mindset being promoted in some of the previous posts.

Just wait until the day, someone takes from them everything... and fails to give them their self-awareness back, then may they know the error of their ways. so it is written that's what the future holds by the prophets.

"16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

I think it would be justice for a society that worships greed, my favorite anti-hero, The Antichrist(https://en.wikipedia...st_of_the_Earth). I just hope this **** really happens in real life...

"A tradition attributed to Ibn al-Zubayr also describes the Beast carrying the Seal of Solomon(https://en.wikipedia...Seal_of_Solomon) and Moses' staff(https://en.wikipedia.../Staff_of_Moses)."

I can't wait to see people's faces if this happens... I hope I just live to see it if it does happen...

Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 February 2020 - 06:51 AM.

### #20 Flummoxed

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:47 AM

I didnt know you were religious Victor    it some how escaped my attention.

If you need to have visions you could use magic mushrooms, or one of the cactus extracts you have in the states.

Prophecy! Must work on your time travel ideas, perhaps somehow being able to receive info from the future, might cut it, in some entangled way.

Alternatively as a prophet, not being able to predict the future, you could write a prediction in completely general terms, that some **** wit a few hundred years in the future will try to enact, or run up and down the street preaching your prophecies. You develop your own sect, and call it Victorism the new Satanism.

I can see this thread is not going anywhere, I'll step out.

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### #21 Dubbelosix

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 01:20 PM

Visions or just tripping? There is a difference I think.

### #22 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 09:24 PM

I didnt know you were religious Victor    it some how escaped my attention.

If you need to have visions you could use magic mushrooms, or one of the cactus extracts you have in the states.

Prophecy! Must work on your time travel ideas, perhaps somehow being able to receive info from the future, might cut it, in some entangled way.

Alternatively as a prophet, not being able to predict the future, you could write a prediction in completely general terms, that some **** wit a few hundred years in the future will try to enact, or run up and down the street preaching your prophecies. You develop your own sect, and call it Victorism the new Satanism.

I can see this thread is not going anywhere, I'll step out.

I am not particularly religious however I think this would be awesome like my favorite books in the bible are Daniel and Revelations for the very reason that the Anti-christ is that cool, He is Hitler that wins against the world. Also I like the Bowls of Wrath and Death's Reapers section, basically the book of revelations tells about a war between the Anti-christ and his followers against God, there is all sorts of technological devices used I have used it as inspiration for some of my works of science. The events of Revelations and Daniel are also explained in the Quran, but with different details. These books captivated me when I was younger like around 15 years ago, I always tried to figure out what was being told about the future from these books.

Yes, and I believe time travel was responsible for the visions of the future that these people describe, this was ancient understanding of what happens in a future time based on the visions these different prophets had. These events could be out of phase of our time line due to time travel because if someone time traveled and told of such events, the ripple effect of these events being told would change that time line to probably remove them from happening. It's looking into a alternate future that of like the book 1984, but this may have actually happened without these books being told about in religious texts. The weapons of Revelations are awe inspiring, if science creates such devices in the future, like the book in one part clearly tells about the usage of nuclear weapons and also in another part about genetic warfare devices.

Nuclear weapons section

"17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."

Biological, Nano-Technological, and Nuclear Weapons Section

"Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died.

The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
you who are and who were;
for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”

And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgments.”

The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible."

Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 February 2020 - 10:05 PM.

### #23 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:35 PM

He had a good write up in the new statesman, his views are possibly a little bit progressive.

Reduced Income tax big lures investors into countries, allowing them to make more profits, and save even more money. The poor spend virtually everything the earn. Taxing the poor means they have less to spend, and reduces the amount of money in the economy, to buy the goods produced by big investors.

Vague ramblings >

In the UK the last time I checked the income tax threshold was about £12000, before you had to pay tax, this was a long time ago so it might have increased by now. Tax rates were progressively reduced for the super rich many years ago. However I do not recall any multi millionaire merchant bankers investing in manufacturing plants, or creating 1000's of jobs. But if you are trading in the stock markets, and have a tax haven then, you will base your operations there, increased economic turnover in a stock market does not mean an improved economy for all but the super rich who profit by tax cuts.

to your 2nd paragraph is this not the equivalent of indentured labour, which is slavery by any other name. Apparently both were very popular in the Americas not such a long time ago. Many indentured labourers, died still before finishing their indenture-ship and many were also apparently disposed of by greedy employers, without being paid.

Ref the 150000 euros, individuals with wealthy parents receive that anyway. Less wealthy individuals would be able to burn 100 euro notes in front of elderley (over taxed) beggars. Similar to Boris Johnson and his school mates, what laughs they must have. A certain degree of social responsibility might be taught to those recieving the money. Perhaps rather than tying it to enslavement, why not if you get a criminal record before you are due to receive it, you lose the lot. Then if you miss use it, ie by burning it infront of homeless people, then you might also lose the lot.

Depends on your level of consumerism, do you really need a bigger car, or another motor bike. I might be dated, people want smart **** these days dont they, then they sit and message each other at the same table in restaurants.

JFK was around after the federal reserve was set up. I think Lincoln if my american history is vaguely correct wanted a more agrarian society not involving money perhaps based on trade.

There are today basically 4 different types of economies https://www.intellig...s-of-economies/

I wonder if a hybrid version of these could be developed, benefiting from the advantages of each and circumventing the downsides.

Yes precisely. Which is how JFK pissed them off by trying to print his own money. I can't remember what they were going to be called but for Lincoln it was the Greenbacks.

Well basically in the states we are taxed on everything. I don't know the exact percentage of the tax we pay but I think it comes to at least half of your paycheck. Although most food is not taxed but everything else is even when you flush a toilet unless you own a well. There is a vast amount of government to be paid for hence an endless supply of taxes. I really don't see the US gov getting smaller but only continuing to grow. There are a lot of tent cities now for all the homeless people. I always see one of the tent cities when I drive past Chicago. Why people want to live in cities I have no clue.

### #24 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:41 PM

In ancient Athens the main public expenses fell on the shoulders of the elites while the basic citizen only had to make their bodies and lives available for military service as a Hopolite. This method reduced the impact of oligarchies and dictatorships and was a cornerstone of the original concept of democracy, The Spartans had a different dual monarchist system that also utilised citizen Hopolites as the central foundation for their society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite

If I recall correctly in the early 1960's in Australia the average lowly paid worker paid no tax while the managers and business owners were paid a large multiple of the average workers wage (100x?) and paid over 50% in taxes. At this time the ASX and the DOW were both around 1,000. Now the top 1% pay much less tax in comparison while they earn around 4-5 times (400-500x) more than they did in the 1960's, in Australia at least. But then again our major political parties have sold off most of our national assets to ensure that their old crony mates get directors seats on the boards of our new foreign masters, thanks political arse holes, at least the pommies got a BREXIT vote, you pricks have yet to gain constitutional approval for putting the crown on your heads in the Australia Act 1986, just before you started selling our public assets!

It's a real pity they stopped listening to genuine Australians when the capitalists turned the world into a slave state with the help of the witless and gutless wonders they call politicians these days.

That is interesting about ancient Athens. Good points. I would say the big problem is the corporations themselves always wanting the bottom line but not capitalism itself.

### #25 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:44 PM

Just wait until the day, someone takes from them everything... and fails to give them their self-awareness back, then may they know the error of their ways. so it is written that's what the future holds by the prophets.

"16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

I think it would be justice for a society that worships greed, my favorite anti-hero, The Antichrist(https://en.wikipedia...st_of_the_Earth). I just hope this **** really happens in real life...

"A tradition attributed to Ibn al-Zubayr also describes the Beast carrying the Seal of Solomon(https://en.wikipedia...Seal_of_Solomon) and Moses' staff(https://en.wikipedia.../Staff_of_Moses)."

I can't wait to see people's faces if this happens... I hope I just live to see it if it does happen...

I think Revelations is their playbook they go by. They are pretty much telling us the plan in that masonic text. And of coarse you will have your worldwide dictator Jesus.lol!

### #26 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:53 PM

I am not particularly religious however I think this would be awesome like my favorite books in the bible are Daniel and Revelations for the very reason that the Anti-christ is that cool, He is Hitler that wins against the world. Also I like the Bowls of Wrath and Death's Reapers section, basically the book of revelations tells about a war between the Anti-christ and his followers against God, there is all sorts of technological devices used I have used it as inspiration for some of my works of science. The events of Revelations and Daniel are also explained in the Quran, but with different details. These books captivated me when I was younger like around 15 years ago, I always tried to figure out what was being told about the future from these books.

Yes, and I believe time travel was responsible for the visions of the future that these people describe, this was ancient understanding of what happens in a future time based on the visions these different prophets had. These events could be out of phase of our time line due to time travel because if someone time traveled and told of such events, the ripple effect of these events being told would change that time line to probably remove them from happening. It's looking into a alternate future that of like the book 1984, but this may have actually happened without these books being told about in religious texts. The weapons of Revelations are awe inspiring, if science creates such devices in the future, like the book in one part clearly tells about the usage of nuclear weapons and also in another part about genetic warfare devices.

Nuclear weapons section

"17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."

Biological, Nano-Technological, and Nuclear Weapons Section

"Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died.

The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
you who are and who were;
for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”

And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgments.”

The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible."

I was also intrigued by those 2 books as a kid. Although I am not religious anymore it is nice to go back and read those books in a non religions thinking mindset. Like I said I think it was written as a playbook. After all I am sure it wasn't a John of Patmos or a Daniel that actually wrote these books. We should remember when these books were written it was mostly the Elite and Aristocrats that could read and write. Most of the normal people were illiterate. Well for the OT Daniel I think it would have been more of some kind of group of priests writing it. I have heard Revelations was written by Jesuits. Hard to really say though.

### #27 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:57 PM

I was also intrigued by those 2 books as a kid. Although I am not religious anymore it is nice to go back and read those books in a non religions thinking mindset. Like I said I think it was written as a playbook. After all I am sure it wasn't a John of Patmos or a Daniel that actually wrote these books. We should remember when these books were written it was mostly the Elite and Aristocrats that could read and write. Most of the normal people were illiterate. Well for the OT Daniel I think it would have been more of some kind of group of priests writing it. I have heard Revelations was written by Jesuits. Hard to really say though.

Ya when I was reading them I was reading them as a scientist, I didn't care about the religious propaganda but rather what could be extracted from the texts in the way of technology from the future or from a alternate timeline. I am proud to say I have extracted most of it from these texts.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 February 2020 - 10:59 PM.

### #28 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:02 PM

I dunno I was always more interested in the weapons of revelations then the actual story, the story is kinda stupid however those weapons are glorious.

Then you would be really intrigued by the Ancient Hindu texts, the Vedas where they actually talked about flying machines and wars in the sky. And even how to build them.

### #29 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:07 PM

Ya when I was reading them I was reading them as a scientist, I didn't care about the religious propaganda but rather what could be extracted from the texts in the way of technology from the future or from a alternate timeline. I am proud to say I have extracted most of it from these texts.

I was brought up as a Christian as to it was the word of God. Until I was actually able to ask questions and do my own research was I able to clearly see what it is. I was able to break the religious programming by studying other religions. But yea when I was young I really didn't know any better and we had no internet to research things. Now all the answers are at your finger tips with a click of the button. I really don't know how people are not leaving religion in droves.

### #30 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:09 PM

I was brought up as a Christian as to it was the word of God. Until I was actually able to ask questions and do my own research was I able to clearly see what it is. I was able to break the religious programming by studying other religions. But yea when I was young I really didn't know any better and we had no internet to research things. Now all the answers are at your finger tips with a click of the button. I really don't know how people are not leaving religion in droves.

People are stupid, it takes something called wisdom to understand these books, they are not meant for dumb average people to understand, which is why people aren't leaving those religions due to the sheer stupidity of your average christian.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 February 2020 - 11:10 PM.

### #31 Thoth101

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:40 PM

People are stupid, it takes something called wisdom to understand these books, they are not meant for dumb average people to understand, which is why people aren't leaving those religions due to the sheer stupidity of your average christian.

Yes and for the most part they read the books literally. They literally think their was a talking snake. I do think it was written for the peasants to read it literally while the Elite read it symbolically. There is actually a lot of Astronomy and Astrology in it. Yet when you are a Christian your told Astrology is of the devil.lol! I get a good laugh when a Christian says it is of the devil to go to a Psychic yet at the same time they are saying Revelations is predicting the future. And or Daniel. But yea the average Christian has no clue and they don't even get why they go to church on Sun-Day and Jesus walks on water and turns grapes into wine.

### #32 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:55 PM

Yes and for the most part they read the books literally. They literally think their was a talking snake. I do think it was written for the peasants to read it literally while the Elite read it symbolically. There is actually a lot of Astronomy and Astrology in it. Yet when you are a Christian your told Astrology is of the devil.lol! I get a good laugh when a Christian says it is of the devil to go to a Psychic yet at the same time they are saying Revelations is predicting the future. And or Daniel. But yea the average Christian has no clue and they don't even get why they go to church on Sun-Day and Jesus walks on water and turns grapes into wine.

Ya like I read those books and understand every word of it and the symbolism behind it, often times I can even understand the technology used in the book and how to create it, it's not magic its technology.

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### #33 LaurieAG

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:58 PM

That is interesting about ancient Athens. Good points. I would say the big problem is the corporations themselves always wanting the bottom line but not capitalism itself.

The big problem is short term thinkers like politicians who think everything keeps on going up forever, until it doesn't.

### #34 Thoth101

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 12:19 AM

The big problem is short term thinkers like politicians who think everything keeps on going up forever, until it doesn't.

That is also a problem. That is why I am all for not voting. Why do we keep voting for the same problems? What is the point of voting if their is nobody to vote for?