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What Is Consciousness?


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#35 Dubbelosix

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:40 PM

Interesting I'll raise you 52mins and 30seconds in to this link   it gets interesting. 
 
Your link suggests memories might be transferred, memories are contained in the brain, 
 
Feelings of peace can be achieved by reduced oxygen intake. Out of body experience, astral projection, ghosts. Same thing maybe :shocked: .
 
If you are dead and want to be reborn. Head for the maternity ward or find a fertile looking young lady, and wait for her boy friend to come along and get her pregnant.
 
Where can I get some Ayahuaska.



The classical model says that memories are contained in the brain, but some top scientists believe that even memory can be stored in spacetime itself.

#36 Dubbelosix

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:40 PM

Interesting I'll raise you 52mins and 30seconds in to this link   it gets interesting. 
 
Your link suggests memories might be transferred, memories are contained in the brain, 
 
Feelings of peace can be achieved by reduced oxygen intake. Out of body experience, astral projection, ghosts. Same thing maybe :shocked: .
 
If you are dead and want to be reborn. Head for the maternity ward or find a fertile looking young lady, and wait for her boy friend to come along and get her pregnant.
 
Where can I get some Ayahuaska.



The classical model says that memories are contained in the brain, but some top scientists believe that even memory can be stored in spacetime itself.
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#37 Flummoxed

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:46 PM

1 hr 12 in. For victor they are building conscious brains "blue brains"



#38 Flummoxed

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:49 PM

The classical model says that memories are contained in the brain, but some top scientists believe that even memory can be stored in spacetime itself.

If memory is stored in space time, are we talking entanglement, non locality. Or something else ? 

 

If the reincarnations are to be believed, they appear to happen across a period of time. Somebody else try and rationalize this lot? I am of for a drink.


Edited by Flummoxed, 21 February 2020 - 02:58 PM.


#39 Dubbelosix

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 03:10 PM

I do believe entanglement plays a role, in a way, I am leaning towards the notion that there is no individuality... In fact, a student of Schrodinger mathematically argued this, his name was Ludvik Bass.

Edited by Dubbelosix, 21 February 2020 - 08:16 PM.


#40 Dubbelosix

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 03:11 PM

JOURNAL ARTICLE
The mind of Wigner's friend
Ludvik Bass
Hermathena
No. 112 (Autumn 1971), pp. 52-68
Published by: Trinity College Dublin
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23040667
Page Count: 17
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#41 Thoth101

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:00 PM

I dunno about any of that, however I do know that we will find species that will join us on our quest in the universe, we will need friends to create a universe empire but however will need soldiers too and undoubtedly will gain enemies over time.

 

At this point I don't think their are any species that would want to join us crazy humans on this Earth. There are some that want to help us evolve and there are some that want to control us and keep us at a constant war with each other so we can't grow. I think you can see who is winning. It don't look like we are stopping our war machines any time soon. The good news is though none of our governments have slaughtered anybody through atomic bombs lately.



#42 Thoth101

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:24 PM

Getting back to the consciousness, and away from world/universal domination, which I think comes from the evil emperor in star wars. 

 

Is consciousness defined by just existing, or do you have to be awake. Digital immortality ? contained in computers, how about quantum computers ? Is the universe not one big automatic quantum computer. Your information may already be encoded for eternity, or at least part of it.

 

 

 

What is your soul. Is it not a religious thing that can be sent to hell or heaven to scare children. 

Quantum computers / the universe might contain a record of what is your essence, in another timeless dimension. That essence might be able to move around perhaps.

You might ask yourself if said explanations work. do I want to do that again? :). The Problem being reborn as a child would mean you would have to learn from all those mistakes again, and dont think there is any conceivable way a dead person could transfer their knowledge into another body. People with brain trauma lose huge chunks of their brain function including memories, so to function as we are, you need a functioning brain. Your thoughts do not make up what might be your essence. In religious terms this would be a soul/spirit/ghost/ etc 

 

Any one like ghost stories. There are many mansion houses near where I used to live, one of my friends had got himself a job as a live in gardener and lived in the stables, of this mansion house. The lord of the manor was out, so he invited us all around for a look and party. He gave us a guided tour at about midnight, around most of the house, culminating in the disused chapel. We had left all the doors open behind us along this corridor, it was quite a warm night. We opened the door to the morgue. As we each stepped into and out of the morgue the temperature dropped and the hairs went up on the back of the neck. Then it started, the doors we had left open started banging shut, slowly at first then accelerating down the corridor. We vacated the chapel through the open windows, and went back to the stables to party some. The next thing we hear are hob nail boots coming down the stairs where there was no one. Again the temperature dropped. My friend handed his notice in shortly after, he had a nervous disposition. :)

 

Another story ref an apparent Poltergeist. A boyfriend of one of my older female friends, was helping her baby sit. The child was young and frightened that the poltergeist in that house would throw something. So when it came for the boyfriend to leave he said I will take the ghost with me. Driving home in hs car when he looked in the rear view mirror was a apparition. He stopped his car got out. the apparition disappeared.

 

+ many more stories. 

 

Edit I forgot where I was headed with this line of reasoning. Is there any way that any part of your information could be passed from A to B via entanglement to anothe point in space time. Again I am thinking non locality.

 

I will attempt to put into words what I think a soul is but I don't really understand it myself but I am always learning. And I think you are referring to the Akashic Records that Edgar Cayce talked about. Have you ever heard of Edgar Cayce? He was called the sleeping prophet. Where the Universe records everything in the fabric of spacetime. That is what I remember off hand but I suggest doing a google search on it to see what you find. For the soul from what I gathered and try to comprehend it is a bit complicated.

 

Yea religions will scare the populace with giving them the fear of hell if they don't believe and follow a certain god. Mainly the Christian and Muslim one. A lot of that comes from Zoroastrianism that the Hebrews carried over. An odd thing with the Muslims is some sects tell their followers if the blow up the infidels when they die they will have 20 virgins or some crazy number like that.

 

Apparently we all have what is an oversoul or some say a higher self. Many fragments of that oversoul are all experiencing different experiences all at the same time. So some fragments of the oversoul may be in other universes and other planets and even on different timelines on this earth. So us here right now is a peace of that consciousness from that oversoul. Once our consciousness leaves this body it goes back to the oversoul to bring back the experiences. And it seems to be an endless cycle. That is the best way I can explain it off the top of my head. You may wonder what is the point? Well what is the point of anything? I think the point is experiencing and living and just enjoying the many mansions of consciousness. I think one of the goals from this plant is becoming a 5th dimensional being. Which some call ascension as some of the New Age movement talks about.

 

I do enjoy Ghost stories and you do have some good ones there. My thinking about Ghosts is many of the entities that left their body either got lost or they stayed here for a reason. It seems they are in the 4th dimension. There are quite a few possibilities but that is just one of them. If you ever watch the show the Haunting that is a really good show. There also seem to be negative entities also and some that I think can be classified as Archons,Demons,Ginn and I think the Hindus have another name for the negative ones. But yea I think it is possible for your consciousness to get stuck here without your body and it seems you can even stay here after you leave the body. I hope all that makes some kind of sense to you.lol!



#43 Thoth101

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:28 PM

Being subsystems of the universe, do you really think our memories and actions truly are... Meaningless...? Nothing happens for no reason, no more than the universe needed lots of space so that conscious beings could exist. We are not some unfortunate by-product, at least in my opinion, we are the universe expressing itself in a unique way.

 

I think you put it in an eloquent and easy to understand way. Yes I agree we are the universe expressing itself in a unique way. Hasn't it been said that we all come from stardust?



#44 Thoth101

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:45 PM

You missed the point, probably due to my poor grammar, what I am driving at is after this physical body is dead, and your brain is defunct, ie all memories wiped. Could an essence of something like a quantum memory exist via effects observed in non locality throughout all of time. Playing on Thoths writings on being the Alpha and the Omega :)  

 

Those firing neurons may be "entangled to a certain extent" ( Feyman) and may pass some information else where, perhaps to another point in space time, which might be more inviting than rotting in a corpse, or getting cremated :)

 

Just remembered where I read "as above it is below" previously mentioned by Thoth101. It was Hermes Trismegistus https://www.goodread...es_Trismegistus thought by some to be a reincarnation of Thoth which happens every 2000 years or so apparently. 

 

“Birth is not the beginning of life - only of an individual awareness. Change into another state is not death - only the ending of this awareness.” Hermes

 

Thanks! :applause:

 

That is an absolutely amazing quote! We can learn a lot from the ancients. I totally forgot about the Greek pantheon. And legend has it that there was these "Hermetic tablets" which were cleverly hidden so that no human being might find them. Only Thoth, on his return to that dimension, was able to recover the mysterious book. 



#45 Thoth101

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 11:54 PM

Interesting I'll raise you 52mins and 30seconds in to this link  https://www.youtube....h?v=S7SQoQj9868 it gets interesting. 

 

Your link suggests memories might be transferred, memories are contained in the brain, 

 

Feelings of peace can be achieved by reduced oxygen intake. Out of body experience, astral projection, ghosts. Same thing maybe :shocked: .

 

If you are dead and want to be reborn. Head for the maternity ward or find a fertile looking young lady, and wait for her boy friend to come along and get her pregnant.

 

Where can I get some Ayahuaska.

 

I have heard that before we are incarnated here we pick our parents and the best ones that we think will give us the experience we need to have. In my own experience which gave me chills. I remember asking my daughter when she was 4 do you like your name? And she said "of coarse I do daddy I told you to give it to me before I was born". Let's just say my mouth hit the floor and I do remember picking her name out and it came to me almost instantly.



#46 VictorMedvil

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:16 AM

1 hr 12 in. For victor they are building conscious brains "blue brains"

Like Ray I think it is inevitable that we will create a conscious mind within computers, it is a matter of collecting the proper data on neurons and their function, the problem is they are only using rat neurons, there is a level of complexity missing from that simulation dealing with the human brain versus the rat brain, the creation of a brain is as much about the neuron's states as it is about the pattern that those neurons create together without either of those you will not succeed in creating a artificial brain. The complexity of the pattern determines the intelligence and storage of the brain along with the reactions actually determined from those patterns from stimuli sources of the pattern. The reactions from a rat's brain would be vastly different than that from a human brain because of the complexity of the neuron's that, that stimuli creates.

 

Rat Brain

MR-Image-Phased-Array-MRI-Cryo-Probe.jpg

 

Human Brain

2-Figure2-1.png

 

Look at the vast difference in structure of the two and the sheer size it shows that the neurons of a brain are nothing like the human brain. The Patterns created in a rat brain would be vastly different than that of a human brain.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 22 February 2020 - 01:31 AM.


#47 Thoth101

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:28 AM

Like Ray I think it is inevitable that we will create a conscious mind within computers, it is a matter of collecting the proper data on neurons and their function, the problem is they are only using rat neurons, there is a level of complexity missing from that simulation dealing with the human brain versus the rat brain, the creation of a brain is as much about the neuron's states as it is about the pattern that those neurons create together without either of those you will not succeed in creating a artificial brain. The complexity of the pattern determines the intelligence and storage of the brain along with the reactions actually determined from those patterns from stimuli sources of the pattern. The reactions from a rat's brain would be vastly different than that from a human brain because of the complexity of the neuron's that, that stimuli creates.

 

But you can turn a conscious being into a computer. Can you not? Which is why I think they are slowly getting us used to the idea of everything being chipped. And guess what to make things even easier we can chip you also. And guess what the chip comes with unlimited knowledge where you can go right on google through your brain. I can just see the sales pitch now. You won't even have to carry a phone around anymore. It will be right in you.



#48 VictorMedvil

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:36 AM

But you can turn a conscious being into a computer. Can you not? Which is why I think they are slowly getting us used to the idea of everything being chipped. And guess what to make things even easier we can chip you also. And guess what the chip comes with unlimited knowledge where you can go right on google through your brain. I can just see the sales pitch now. You won't even have to carry a phone around anymore. It will be right in you.

Of course just as a computer image can contain every detail of a MRI scan then a computer could contain all the information within a 3-d picture of a brain including the electrical charges in a 4-d picture. Chipping is a dangerous concept it goes back with the ethical issues of the Mind-Machine Interface, they could create there own army of demons.... if used maliciously such that they could literally create something like the Borg from Star Trek with a chip that strips away control over your own body's movements to a computer or another person.

 


Edited by VictorMedvil, 22 February 2020 - 01:47 AM.

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#49 Thoth101

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:53 AM

Of course just as a computer image can contain every detail of a MRI scan then a computer could contain all the information within a 3-d picture of a brain including the electrical charges in a 4-d picture. Chipping is a dangerous concept it goes back with the ethical issues of the Mind-Machine Interface, they could create there own army of demons.... if used maliciously such that they could literally create something like the Borg from Star Trek with a chip that strips away control over your own body's movements to a computer or another person.

 

 

Sorry I can't watch the video at the moment because I am at work and it is blocked. What is it about?

 

I thought you were into Transhumanism though so wouldn't you want to get chipped to be a part of the program? I thought you would be one of the first ones to sign up. I am sure not in not to long every military member will have to get some sort of chip in them.



#50 VictorMedvil

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:55 AM

Sorry I can't watch the video at the moment because I am at work and it is blocked. What is it about?

 

I thought you were into Transhumanism though so wouldn't you want to get chipped to be a part of the program? I thought you would be one of the first ones to sign up. I am sure not in not to long every military member will have to get some sort of chip in them.

No, I would be the first person to sign up for Nano-technological augmentation or Biological augmentation, I don't like the idea of becoming a computer, I think that we should modify our current forms. The video is about someone controlling someone else's arm using a Mind-Machine Interface against the other person's will. In my opinion anything dealing with a Mind-Machine Interface is completely off the table for me. There are few technologies that scare me, but the Mind-Machine Interface is one of them not something I want in my body.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 22 February 2020 - 02:02 AM.


#51 Thoth101

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 02:06 AM

No, I would be the first person to sign up for Nano-technological augmentation or Biological augmentation, I don't like the idea of becoming a computer, I think that we should modify our current forms. The video is about someone controlling someone else's arm using a Mind-Machine Interface against the other person's will. In my opinion anything dealing with a Mind-Machine Interface is completely off the table for me.

 

But isn't Nano-technology chips but just virtually impossible to see because they are so tiny? So you mean Biological augmentation kind of like a cyborg? Something like the Robo-cop or the Terminator?

 

I agree and the chip thing is a very bad idea. But I can just see these younger kids all getting them just like they run each other over for a new IPhone every year. Although the question is how would they continue to make money on the chip? Maybe every year or 2 you would pay for an upgrade. Kind of makes you wonder why the big push from 4G to 5G. As if are brains aren't already fried enough already.lol!