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The Logical Constructs Of Easter


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#18 fahrquad

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:05 PM

I wonder if you had a bunch of people in a troubled empire built on conflicting scientific or religious principles, some one could come up with a standard model of theories, as told by the men of old, in the new scientific/religious empire. Would this belief system controlled by old men and a few women(hazel), be easily persuaded that the entire belief system of the day was based on (avoiding carefully using the word bollocks) flawed ideas. 

 

What does it take to burn a belief into the human mind?

 

Has religion not been a highly effective way of controlling the masses?



#19 exchemist

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:08 PM

Has religion not been a highly effective way of controlling the masses?

No, I don't think it has. But how could we tell either way? 



#20 GAHD

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:58 PM


 
Well....Could we say that there are elements of logic in the context of Easter Sunday ? :sherlock:

 

I fail to see why you try to marry faith and secular thought so often. They are separate simply because one naturally erodes the other.



#21 fahrquad

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:09 PM

While we are on the subject of islands named for Christian Holidays, there is "Christmas Island" near Java and Borneo.  The average high temperature is 81.3`F and the average low is 73.2`F with annual rainfall totaling 85.94 inches.  There are no Moai on the island but it is notable for its Coconut Crab population.  Specimens have been recorded at 9 pounds and up to 3'-3" across.

 

giant-coconut-crab-57bbf0cc3df78c8763928

 

https://en.wikipedia...hristmas_Island



#22 fahrquad

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:15 PM

No, I don't think it has. But how could we tell either way? 

 

A large part of the New World spoke Spanish (or Portuguese) and were devout Catholics.



#23 hazelm

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 08:47 AM

Easter is a Christian celebration of the return of the zombie god from the dead.

 

"Easter and the holidays that are related to it are moveable feasts which do not fall on a fixed date in the Gregorian or Julian calendars which follow only the cycle of the Sun; rather, its date is offset from the date of Passover and is therefore calculated based on a lunisolar calendar similar to the Hebrew calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established two rules, independence of the Jewish calendar and worldwide uniformity, which were the only rules for Easter explicitly laid down by the council. No details for the computation were specified; these were worked out in practice, a process that took centuries and generated a number of controversies. It has come to be the first Sunday after the ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or soonest after 21 March,[12] but calculations vary.

 

Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover by much of its symbolism, as well as by its position in the calendar. In most European languages the feast is called by the words for passover in those languages; and in the older English versions of the Bible the term Easter was the term used to translate passover.[13]Easter customs vary across the Christian world, and include sunrise services, exclaiming the Paschal greeting, clipping the church,[14] and decorating Easter eggs (symbols of the empty tomb).[15][16][17] The Easter lily, a symbol of the resurrection,[18][19] traditionally decorates the chancel area of churches on this day and for the rest of Eastertide.[20] Additional customs that have become associated with Easter and are observed by both Christians and some non-Christians include egg hunting, the Easter Bunny, and Easter parades.[21][22][23] There are also various traditional Easter foods that vary regionally."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

Good summary.  Just one more thing.  You mention Easter being linked to Passover.  It had to be, given that Jesus and his disciples were celebrating Passover just before the crucifixion. Then came the resurrection (Easter) - three days later?  Thus Passover and Easter would naturally come close together without the Church commanding it.  If we follow Bible history, the two would always be a given number of days apart every year but it isn't, is it?  And therein is that complicated set of rules created by the Church. 

 

Of course,  this may be what you are saying with "as well as by its position in the calendar."  Just adding the logic behind the link.  As to how the church plans Easter around the moon has always stumped me.  I know it can come as late as April 22.  It can also come quite early in March.  Does Passover also move like this?  Or are we using a different span of days from one year to another?  I've never stopped to examine it.



#24 fahrquad

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 11:04 AM

...Of course,  this may be what you are saying with "as well as by its position in the calendar."  Just adding the logic behind the link.  As to how the church plans Easter around the moon has always stumped me.  I know it can come as late as April 22.  It can also come quite early in March.  Does Passover also move like this?  Or are we using a different span of days from one year to another?  I've never stopped to examine it.

 

Today's date apparently is 3 Iyar 5779...

Put on a fresh pot of coffee and sit back for a long read.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Hebrew_calendar

https://en.wikipedia...gorian_calendar

http://www.wildolive...k/calendars.htm


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#25 hazelm

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:20 PM

Today's date apparently is 3 Iyar 5779...

Put on a fresh pot of coffee and sit back for a long read.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Hebrew_calendar

https://en.wikipedia...gorian_calendar

http://www.wildolive...k/calendars.htm

Thank you, fahrquad.  I truly enjoyed that third link.  I'd never heard of Rosh Chodesh.  In fact, I'd never known a lot of that. Some I did but not much.  Very interesting.  I'll bet it keeps the rabbis busy remembering what the calendar is doing.  But, if one grew up with it .... easy,  I suppose. 

 

I did know that their calendar runs from the creation.  But "BCE"?  Don't we also see that abbreviation in science writings?  I thought it meant Before Christian Era, given when it ends in that usage.  Does it?

 

We had a lot of bible History study at school.  As I remember it concentrated mostly on the Old Testament and the four gospels.   Very enjoyable but I like history. 

 

Thanks again.



#26 hazelm

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:44 PM

Has religion not been a highly effective way of controlling the masses?

I would say that, for a log time, it definitely was a way to control the masses.  Definitely in the early Christian era.  And the Chinese, at one time, controlled their people  with a religion.  "Thou shalt..." was a rigid concept extended from early history to those in power who added more "thou shalts"  or added to the thou shalts and/or shalt nots. The people who could neither read nor write and were often quite superstitious were easily led.

 

All that is passing now but back then maybe it was easier to live if the king or church leaders simplified everything and the people simply did as told.  Much like young children?  "Mama say so"  "Papa said so".  Until we begin to think for ourselves. 



#27 fahrquad

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:00 PM

Thank you, fahrquad.  I truly enjoyed that third link.  I'd never heard of Rosh Chodesh.  In fact, I'd never known a lot of that. Some I did but not much.  Very interesting.  I'll bet it keeps the rabbis busy remembering what the calendar is doing.  But, if one grew up with it .... easy,  I suppose. 

 

I did know that their calendar runs from the creation.  But "BCE"?  Don't we also see that abbreviation in science writings?  I thought it meant Before Christian Era, given when it ends in that usage.  Does it?

 

We had a lot of bible History study at school.  As I remember it concentrated mostly on the Old Testament and the four gospels.   Very enjoyable but I like history. 

 

Thanks again.

 

BC as in "Before Christ" has been changed to BCE or "Before the Christian Era" by the politically correct.


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#28 hazelm

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:16 PM

BC as in "Before Christ" has been changed to BCE or "Before the Christian Era" by the politically correct.

Makes sense to me.



#29 Flummoxed

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:31 PM

No, I don't think it has. But how could we tell either way? 

 

Perhaps an experiment to prove one way or another might be to indoctrinate some young impressionable people into an arbitrary religion and tell them to go and murder a group of people that don't believe in their religion. If they went ahead and killed, would that be proof one way or another, that religion can be used to control people. ie Holy Jihad, Holy War, Crusades etc. are  examples of religion controlling peoples lives, and people using their religion to destroy the lives of others.

 

Was any part of any of the old testament based religions written by women. Did any writer in any of the old testament based religions ever treat women as equals. Does Islam, the Catholic Church etc treat women as equals.   



#30 hazelm

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 06:39 AM

Perhaps an experiment to prove one way or another might be to indoctrinate some young impressionable people into an arbitrary religion and tell them to go and murder a group of people that don't believe in their religion. If they went ahead and killed, would that be proof one way or another, that religion can be used to control people. ie Holy Jihad, Holy War, Crusades etc. are  examples of religion controlling peoples lives, and people using their religion to destroy the lives of others.

 

Was any part of any of the old testament based religions written by women. Did any writer in any of the old testament based religions ever treat women as equals. Does Islam, the Catholic Church etc treat women as equals.   

It seems to me that we have had such groups formed right here in our own country.  We don't have to go halfway around the world to find someone  who has gathered together a small clan of  impressionable people - even children - and declared themselves God's appointed to lead their followers, only to all but enslave them and force them into acts we'd never believe thinking people would do. 

 

We read about such in the news every once in a while. 



#31 Dubbelosix

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 08:06 AM

Which is why I don't like ''religion,'' because the notion of a god and scientific principles need not conflict.



#32 Flummoxed

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 09:05 AM

Which is why I don't like ''religion,'' because the notion of a god and scientific principles need not conflict.

 

Religion to me is about the control/guiding of peoples hearts and minds, effectively controlling compliant social groups. . :zip:

 

This might not have anything to do with the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too. :sherlock:

 

Can you define the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too. :innocent:  



#33 Dubbelosix

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:44 AM

Religion to me is about the control/guiding of peoples hearts and minds, effectively controlling compliant social groups. . :zip:

 

This might not have anything to do with the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too. :sherlock:

 

Can you define the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too. :innocent:  

 

 

I could, but first, I want to iterate you are right, religion is there to control people. There is no god in the vast cosmos that wishes to control anything, but the laws he/she set down. The worse conflict I am sure you are aware of, is when religions fight religions, in the ''namesake'' of their gods. Mankind has fallen to this trap so many time, been the match that sent men to wars and was basis for discrimination based on color and creed of all kinds. Religion, truly is the problem, I'll get back to the complimentaries [of a god] and science, soon.


Edited by Dubbelosix, 04 May 2019 - 10:57 AM.


#34 Flummoxed

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 10:57 AM

the laws he/she set down. 

 

You may have hit the nail on the head, Maybe god is a woman and that's why we find it bloody difficult to understand her  :) 


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