17 replies to this topic

[hazelm]

Brazilian researchers have found, in the constellation Cygnus, an object that shows signs of being an exoplanet having almost thirteen times the mass of Jupiter.  If I have it straight, mass has more to do with solidity and weight than with size.  So, it is or is not 13 times the size of Jupiter.  If it were, I  would hope people (if any) could travel much faster than we earthlings.

 

https://www.scienced...p Science News)

 

The object - exoplanet? - is orbiting a binary pair, one star of which is dead. 

[Flummoxed]

Brazilian researchers have found, in the constellation Cygnus, an object that shows signs of being an exoplanet having almost thirteen times the mass of Jupiter.  If I have it straight, mass has more to do with solidity and weight than with size.  So, it is or is not 13 times the size of Jupiter.  If it were, I  would hope people (if any) could travel much faster than we earthlings.

 

https://www.scienced...p Science News)

 

The object - exoplanet? - is orbiting a binary pair, one star of which is dead. 

 

They would have to have very strong legs ie the gravity is going to be much stronger than on earth. Jupiter has 11.2 x more mass than earth so 11.2x13 = 145.6 x the mass of earth. Which would make one feel very heavy indeed 10kg on earth would be like 1.456tons on this Brazilians exoplanet

Edited by Flummoxed, 09 April 2019 - 06:59 AM.

[hazelm]

They would have to have very strong legs ie the gravity is going to be much stronger than on earth. Jupiter has 11.2 x more mass than earth so 11.2x13 = 145.6 x the mass of earth. Which would make one feel very heavy indeed 10kg on earth would be like 1.456tons on this Brazilians exoplanet

Would they really feel very heavy given that they are creatures of that planet?  Which reminds me.  How about the statement that we have the same mass  on both Earth and Moon?  Doesn't talking about mass also involve talking about weight? 

[Flummoxed]

Would they really feel very heavy given that they are creatures of that planet?  Which reminds me.  How about the statement that we have the same mass  on both Earth and Moon?  Doesn't talking about mass also involve talking about weight? 

 

It would take energy to move that mass, so they would probably need lots of sugar/fuel

 

Yes you are correct weight is measured on the surface of planets and your mass wont change F=mg, mass x gravity = weight, and F=Gm₁m₂/r²  https://en.wikipedia...tional_constant also. Given you have the same mass on this planet you will still weigh 145.6 times more, and will need to consume a lot more fuel to lift that weight. Perhaps life would not have evolved to be quite so big, it could be a planet populated by super ants. https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5970/20140210/ants-support-5-000-times-body-weight-before-losing-heads.htm

[VictorMedvil]

It would take energy to move that mass, so they would probably need lots of sugar/fuel

 

Yes you are correct weight is measured on the surface of planets and your mass wont change F=mg, mass x gravity = weight, and F=Gm₁m₂/r²  https://en.wikipedia...tional_constant also. Given you have the same mass on this planet you will still weigh 145.6 times more, and will need to consume a lot more fuel to lift that weight. Perhaps life would not have evolved to be quite so big, it could be a planet populated by super ants. https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5970/20140210/ants-support-5-000-times-body-weight-before-losing-heads.htm

 

It is likely to not be populated by anything as it is a gas giant. That would be like saying Jupiter is populated, maybe they are on one of its moons.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 09 April 2019 - 09:33 AM.

[hazelm]

It is likely to not be populated by anything as it is a gas giant. That would be like saying Jupiter is populated, maybe they are on one of its moons.

Did it say it was a gas giant?  I guess I missed that.

[hazelm]

It would take energy to move that mass, so they would probably need lots of sugar/fuel

 

Yes you are correct weight is measured on the surface of planets and your mass wont change F=mg, mass x gravity = weight, and F=Gm₁m₂/r²  https://en.wikipedia...tional_constant also. Given you have the same mass on this planet you will still weigh 145.6 times more, and will need to consume a lot more fuel to lift that weight. Perhaps life would not have evolved to be quite so big, it could be a planet populated by super ants. https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5970/20140210/ants-support-5-000-times-body-weight-before-losing-heads.htm

How can you weigh the same when the gravity is different?  I am remembering the astronaut who demonstrated how much lighter he was on the moon.

[OceanBreeze]

It would take energy to move that mass, so they would probably need lots of sugar/fuel

 

Yes you are correct weight is measured on the surface of planets and your mass wont change F=mg, mass x gravity = weight, and F=Gm₁m₂/r²  https://en.wikipedia...tional_constant also. Given you have the same mass on this planet you will still weigh 145.6 times more, and will need to consume a lot more fuel to lift that weight. Perhaps life would not have evolved to be quite so big, it could be a planet populated by super ants. https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5970/20140210/ants-support-5-000-times-body-weight-before-losing-heads.htm

 

Even super ants would not have the required strength to weight ratio in that sort of gravity.

 

Maybe something like a super dung beetle?

 

 

 

 

 

Link:

 

“Even a small ball of fresh dung can be hefty to push, weighing 50 times the weight of the determined dung beetle. Male dung beetles need exceptional strength, not just for pushing dung balls but also for fending off male competitors. The individual strength record goes to a male Onthphagus taurus dung beetle, which pulled a load equivalent to 1,141 times its own body weight. How does this compare to human feats of strength? This would be like a 150 lb. person pulling 80 tons!”

 

But what sort of animal could exist in that gravity to provide the supply of poop?

[OceanBreeze]

How can you weigh the same when the gravity is different?  I am remembering the astronaut who demonstrated how much lighter he was on the moon.

 

Your mass is the same but your weight varies with the force of gravity

[VictorMedvil]

Did it say it was a gas giant?  I guess I missed that.

Well, I assume it is a Gas Giant from its mass, usually you don't have rocky planets with that sort of mass.

[Moronium]

Your mass is the same but your weight varies with the force of gravity

 

This is a correct statement, Hazel, but I don't think it directly (although it does implicitly) answers your question, which was:

 

How can you weigh the same when the gravity is different?  I am remembering the astronaut who demonstrated how much lighter he was on the moon.

 

 

The answer is you can't.  Like Popeye said:  If the gravity is different, then your weight will change.

 

You probably know all this already, but I'll try to elaborate just in case it's not clear to you.

 

I know you don't care for math, so I'll try to avoid it.

 

MASS:  This is oversimplified, but let's just say that mass in the amount of matter in your body--bones, blood, hair, toes, whatever.  That doesn't change if you get on an airplane, or go to the moon for that matter.  So mass remains constant.

 

GRAVITY:  All mass "attracts" other mass.   This changes with circumstances. How much "pull" gravity exerts on a body (mass) depends on two things:  1) distance and (2) quantity.  (1) The closer you are to a massive object, the more "force" (attraction) it exerts on you. (2)  The more massive (bigger) an object is, the more force it exerts on you.  The attraction is mutual, so the bigger you are, the more the total overalll attraction between you and another body of mass will be.

 

So, if you go to the moon, your body (mass) doesn't change, but the size of the object attracting you does change.  The moon is much less massive than than the earth.

 

WEIGHT:  Standing on a scale kinda "measures" how much the earth (or moon, or other object) is attracting you.  The reason a fat person weighs more than a skinny one is that they have more mass.  This increases the "mutual attraction" between the two bodies (i.e., between the fat person and the earth).

 

So if you go to the moon, your mass is unchanged, but your "weight" does change..  The moon is not "pulling" on you as much as the earth would, so you weigh less there.  You can jump higher because the moon doesn't "pull you back down" as much (or as fast) as the earth would.

Edited by Moronium, 09 April 2019 - 10:47 AM.

[Moronium]

Speaking of fat guys jumping, you aint never gunna see no fat guy jump as high as a skinny guy.

 

Jumping depends on a lot of things, muscles, bone structure, etc.

 

But I don't care how "strong" a fat guy is, he's still fat, ya know?

 

That's why in the NBA you see a guy like 5' 6" Spud Webb dunking over a 7' 3" Abdul Jabbar.

 

I haven't done the math on this, and I could be wrong, but I doubt it.  It's a law of gravity.

Edited by Moronium, 09 April 2019 - 11:14 AM.

[hazelm]

This is a correct statement, Hazel, but I don't think it directly (although it does implicitly) answers your question, which was:

 

 

The answer is you can't.  Like Popeye said:  If the gravity is different, then your weight will change.

 

You probably know all this already, but I'll try to elaborate just in case it's not clear to you.

 

I know you don't care for math, so I'll try to avoid it.

 

MASS:  This is oversimplified, but let's just say that mass in the amount of matter in your body--bones, blood, hair, toes, whatever.  That doesn't change if you get on an airplane, or go to the moon for that matter.  So mass remains constant.

 

GRAVITY:  All mass "attracts" other mass.   This changes with circumstances. How much "pull" gravity exerts on a body (mass) depends on two things:  1) distance and (2) quantity.  (1) The closer you are to a massive object, the more "force" (attraction) it exerts on you. (2)  The more massive (bigger) an object is, the more force it exerts on you.  The attraction is mutual, so the bigger you are, the more the total overalll attraction between you and another body of mass will be.

 

So, if you go to the moon, your body (mass) doesn't change, but the size of the object attracting you does change.  The moon is much less massive than than the earth.

 

WEIGHT:  Standing on a scale kinda "measures" how much the earth (or moon, or other object) is attracting you.  The reason a fat person weighs more than a skinny one is that they have more mass.  This increases the "mutual attraction" between the two bodies (i.e., between the fat person and the earth).

 

So if you go to the moon, your mass is unchanged, but your "weight" does change..  The moon is not "pulling" on you as much as the earth would, so you weigh less there.  You can jump higher because the moon doesn't "pull you back down" as much (or as fast) as the earth would.

Exactly.   I think I may be misreading Flummoxed.  I thought he was saying your weight does no change.  Let it rest. 

 

And, by the way, wouldn't a gas planet have less gravity than a rocky planet? 

[Flummoxed]

 

 

And, by the way, wouldn't a gas planet have less gravity than a rocky planet? 

 

If they have the same mass you might expect the gas planet to be bigger perhaps and less dense. Density is kg/m³ 

[Flummoxed]

How can you weigh the same when the gravity is different?  I am remembering the astronaut who demonstrated how much lighter he was on the moon.

 

 

You don't weigh the same when gravity is different. I think you should read again what I wrote.

Edited by Flummoxed, 09 April 2019 - 12:27 PM.

[hazelm]

You don't weigh the same when gravity is different. I think you should read again what I wrote.

All right.  I'm mis-reading what you said.  No problem.

[hazelm]

If they have the same mass you might expect the gas planet to be bigger perhaps and less dense. Density is kg/m³ 

Of course.  Gas also expands.  OK