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What If The Meteor That Killed The Dinosaurs Shattered Before Impact?

Dinosaurs meteor astroid impact

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#1 andytak3740

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 09:24 PM

Hello everyone, 

 

I was wondering if any of you would be knowledgeable in what would occur if the Meteor or Asteroid that killed the dinosaurs fragmented before impact? I personally was equating the impact scenario to that of shotgun ammunition. I related the full asteroid to that of a slug, and the shattered meteor to a mix of bird and buck shot. Would any damage be mitigated or altered? How would the fragments interact to land versus water? Finally could the dinosaurs have survived this type of impact? 

 

Thanks for taking your time to read and/or reply to this post, I love this community. 

 

Andy



#2 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:06 PM

The Chicxulub impactor that struck the Yucatan Peninsula nearly 66 million years ago is currently believed to have been either an asteroid or a cometary fragment (which is new to me).  Estimates are that the object was about 6 miles long.  I don't believe that gravity or air resistance would have caused the impactor to break up, or if it did it would have made no difference that close to the surface.  Rock in the immediate area was vaporized, and the underlying geological strata was fractured for hundreds of miles.  This is why there is no surface water and the only fresh water is located in underground Cenotes.  Dinosaurs did survive, although these days we know them as birds (I'll have a dinosaur and swiss on whole wheat, hold the mayo).  I know we discussed this at great length several months ago on another thread, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

Yucatan_chix_crater.jpg

 

https://en.wikipedia...hicxulub_crater


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#3 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:14 PM

This looks like the one.

 

http://www.sciencefo...ote#entry311085



#4 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:29 PM

I am still of the opinion that the shock wave from the Chicxulub impact triggered the eruptions at the Deccan Traps on roughly the opposite side of the world.  Both the Chicxulub Impact and the Deccan Traps eruption have been implicated as being the sole cause of the mass extinction, but I find it too convenient that both events occurred right round 66 million years ago.  The Deccan Traps are the dark purple spot on India, and the Yucatan Peninsula is that beige bit of Mexico reaching toward Florida, and as you can see they are roughly the same latitude.

1024px-World_geologic_provinces.jpg

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Deccan_Traps



#5 andytak3740

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:37 PM

Hello Fahrquad, 

 

Thanks for the reply, so what if the meteor shattered before it neared the planet? Say the fragmentation occurred near the moon or mars and the impact zone was a diameter the size of north america, would it still dramatically effect the planet. I am aware that birds are relatives to therapods, however, is their a chance that any larger species could have survived. Even mega-fauna perhaps?



#6 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:55 PM

The Chicxulub crater is located at 21.1363`N, 89.5162`W and the Deccan Traps lava field is located between 17-24`N, 73-74`E.  Keep in mind that the land masses are not exactly where they were 66 million years ago.  North and South America have been moving west while the Indian subcontinent moved north to crash into the Eurasian land mass and pushed up the Himalayan Mountain Range.

 

maponly_4_lg.png

https://www.google.c...fiESIGWM:&vet=1



#7 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:13 PM

Hello Fahrquad, 

 

Thanks for the reply, so what if the meteor shattered before it neared the planet? Say the fragmentation occurred near the moon or mars and the impact zone was a diameter the size of north america, would it still dramatically effect the planet. I am aware that birds are relatives to therapods, however, is their a chance that any larger species could have survived. Even mega-fauna perhaps?

 

Gravity from the moon or Mars would be too weak to cause fragmentation of the impactor so the only likely culprit in that scenario would be Jupiter, if you recall the impact of comet Shoemaker-Levy.  Such an encounter would likely have a shotgun effect with most if not all of the smaller fragments missing the Earth.  Although there have been unsubstantiated reports of plesiosaur-like creatures in Loch Ness and the Chesapeake Bay, no dinosaurs are known to have survived except for birds. 

 

Chessie%2C_A_Chesapeake_Bay_Story_Cover_

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Plesiosauria

https://en.wikipedia...ch_Ness_Monster

https://en.wikipedia...e_(sea_monster)


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#8 fahrquad

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:30 PM

Here is an animation of the movement of land masses over the last 540 million years.

 

https://youtu.be/g_iEWvtKcuQ


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#9 andytak3740

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:52 PM

You've been a big help, thanks for the information. I was hopping for a method in which the dinosaurs from specific continents perished but others didn't. In a sense, some continents would develop mammalian life, while others kept dinosaur life. In a sense a scenario where a mammalian humanoid could develop while still having dinosaurs on the planet. I wouldn't suppose that it would be feasible, would it? 

 

...The video was quite the trip though. 



#10 fahrquad

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 12:02 AM

You've been a big help, thanks for the information. I was hopping for a method in which the dinosaurs from specific continents perished but others didn't. In a sense, some continents would develop mammalian life, while others kept dinosaur life. In a sense a scenario where a mammalian humanoid could develop while still having dinosaurs on the planet. I wouldn't suppose that it would be feasible, would it? 

 

...The video was quite the trip though. 

 

Humans are notorious for exterminating any competition, including our nearest relatives, so cohabitation of Homo Sapiens with an intelligent bipedal dinosaur species is highly improbable.



#11 andytak3740

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 12:48 AM

Hm... I see. Well, the main reason for my speculation arose from a novel that I am writing. I have already completed the first draft and I am currently in the midst of the first rewrite. I choose specific continents to be selectively effected by smaller cataclysmic asteroid impacts while others remained relatively untouched. The concept revolved around mammals evolving on a separate continent, while the ancestors of dinosaur mega-fauna persisted on a different continent. In the novel itself, it has civilized mammalian humanoids branching out and experiencing dinosaur decedents and learning to adapt to their presence. Some learning to coexist, others exterminating, and etc. I know the concept might be far-fetch, but do you find it intriguing if minutely feasible? If not, would it still be a concept that you believe would be interesting in the very least? 



#12 Flummoxed

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 04:32 AM

Hello everyone, 

 

I was wondering if any of you would be knowledgeable in what would occur if the Meteor or Asteroid that killed the dinosaurs fragmented before impact? I personally was equating the impact scenario to that of shotgun ammunition. I related the full asteroid to that of a slug, and the shattered meteor to a mix of bird and buck shot. Would any damage be mitigated or altered? How would the fragments interact to land versus water? Finally could the dinosaurs have survived this type of impact? 

 

Thanks for taking your time to read and/or reply to this post, I love this community. 

 

Andy

 

If it was a comet it is likely there would be fragments. Comet Shoemaker Levy broke up before it hit Jupiter https://en.m.wikiped...hoemaker–Levy_9

I read some time ago that there is a theory we were hit by a comet at around the time of the dinosaur extinction I cant find the exact link, but from memory there were other smaller impact craters around the planet which kind of suggests comet https://en.wikipedia...cxulub_impactor A High velocity impact could have produced lots of projectiles/fragments from the explosion on impact https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26530162_Chicxulubites_a_New_Class_of_Meteorites



#13 fahrquad

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 09:12 AM

Hm... I see. Well, the main reason for my speculation arose from a novel that I am writing. I have already completed the first draft and I am currently in the midst of the first rewrite. I choose specific continents to be selectively effected by smaller cataclysmic asteroid impacts while others remained relatively untouched. The concept revolved around mammals evolving on a separate continent, while the ancestors of dinosaur mega-fauna persisted on a different continent. In the novel itself, it has civilized mammalian humanoids branching out and experiencing dinosaur decedents and learning to adapt to their presence. Some learning to coexist, others exterminating, and etc. I know the concept might be far-fetch, but do you find it intriguing if minutely feasible? If not, would it still be a concept that you believe would be interesting in the very least? 

 

Speaking from my own personal bias, I find it hard to conceive of a world where we could co-exist with "Homo Reptilia".*  BTW, I question why Madam Vastra, the reptilian warrior on Dr. Who shown below, would have mammalian breasts.

 

6AfCPzY5O44CGShgouK2gORIleeasVEeU5uFKz_R

 

*Borrowed from Dr. Who.

https://en.wikipedia...tilian_humanoid


Edited by fahrquad, 07 April 2019 - 09:16 AM.


#14 fahrquad

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 09:31 AM

Hm... I see. Well, the main reason for my speculation arose from a novel that I am writing. I have already completed the first draft and I am currently in the midst of the first rewrite.... I know the concept might be far-fetch, but do you find it intriguing if minutely feasible? If not, would it still be a concept that you believe would be interesting in the very least? 

 

Science Fiction is the realm of imagination, so write your tale your way.  The editor will have his chance to rip it to shreds several times before a final draft ever reaches print.  The creative process can be slow and tedious but ultimately very rewarding, so let me be the first to offer my congratulations and my condolences.



#15 andytak3740

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 10:28 AM

Thank you for your condolences, I truly appreciate it. I still plan on publishing it after my editor shreds it and pieces it back together. At the moment however, I am still debating as to whether I would like to include an intelligent dinosaur species. However, if I were to do so, it would be in a later installment. 

 

 

As for the whole reptilian breasts from Madam Vastra, Yea, mammalian breasts are a strange and improbable occurrence. Breasts are merely adapted sweat glands to produce highly nutritious secretions. In order for a reptile to to form sweat glands, a few things must occur. The first thing that is required of the species is to evolve into an endothermic animal and to develop a highly active life style. Such a change should allow for a sweat gland like organ to develop. Next, the species will have to slowly evolve to secret these nutrients to their offspring till natural selection dictates that breasts are the most efficient delivery system and attractive display for mates. So yes, it is a highly improbable set of events that are required for the species to undergo. But, it has happened before... At least for mammals. so its not impossible. Though, I doubt that they would retain their scales for the hindrance they would profile for the glands. So if a "Reptilian" species developed humanoid breasts, then in they would appear similar to us. More than likely develop downy feathers in the place for hair(Alligators and other reptiles have been shown to develop proto-feathers within eggs on a few occasions as well as discovered genes that convert scales to feathers), have smooth skin, and appear very similar to us.

 

...P.S. I am highly curious as to what a real life crocodile or alligator would look like with feathers.



#16 fahrquad

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 11:55 AM

Thank you for your condolences, I truly appreciate it. I still plan on publishing it after my editor shreds it and pieces it back together. At the moment however, I am still debating as to whether I would like to include an intelligent dinosaur species. However, if I were to do so, it would be in a later installment. 

 

 

As for the whole reptilian breasts from Madam Vastra, Yea, mammalian breasts are a strange and improbable occurrence. Breasts are merely adapted sweat glands to produce highly nutritious secretions. In order for a reptile to to form sweat glands, a few things must occur. The first thing that is required of the species is to evolve into an endothermic animal and to develop a highly active life style. Such a change should allow for a sweat gland like organ to develop. Next, the species will have to slowly evolve to secret these nutrients to their offspring till natural selection dictates that breasts are the most efficient delivery system and attractive display for mates. So yes, it is a highly improbable set of events that are required for the species to undergo. But, it has happened before... At least for mammals. so its not impossible. Though, I doubt that they would retain their scales for the hindrance they would profile for the glands. So if a "Reptilian" species developed humanoid breasts, then in they would appear similar to us. More than likely develop downy feathers in the place for hair(Alligators and other reptiles have been shown to develop proto-feathers within eggs on a few occasions as well as discovered genes that convert scales to feathers), have smooth skin, and appear very similar to us.

 

...P.S. I am highly curious as to what a real life crocodile or alligator would look like with feathers.

 

While birds and reptiles regurgitate food to feed their young, mammals are unique in that we secrete milk to feed our young.  Yeah, I know, it sounds disgusting to me too. On the other hand breakfast this morning consisted of a 3 egg onion and cheese omelet with bacon, so that was 3 ova excreted out of a chicken's arse with fermented bovine glandular excretions served with fried strips of swine arse preserved with salt and smoke so who am I to criticize?.  Yum, yum.  :bad:  



#17 fahrquad

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

...P.S. I am highly curious as to what a real life crocodile or alligator would look like with feathers.

 

No crocs or gators, but how about a thunder lizard?

 

GettyImages-836201698-3db0452.jpg?qualit





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