jettlarue Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I have a question about the apparant "Gods Will" that is used in lawsuits now. I was reading about abortion in lawsuits (lawyers trying to stop it) and i thought of something. The people in the case were saying that everything is gods will. So if that is true wouldnt gods wll be whatever is currently happening? Not trying to be hard on any relgion or anything so please dont take it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Well its not like we can just phone the BIG GUY up and say...Hey whats your will on this subject... Usually in lawsuits the atterneys (if thats how you spell it) are trying to hit a personal note with the jury and most times the trump card IS religion. Just what I have to say.And no offence Jettlarue...and welcome to the hypography family....hope you like it here! Op5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niviene Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I have a question about the apparant "Gods Will" that is used in lawsuits now. I was reading about abortion in lawsuits (lawyers trying to stop it) and i thought of something. The people in the case were saying that everything is gods will. So if that is true wouldnt gods wll be whatever is currently happening? Not trying to be hard on any relgion or anything so please dont take it that way. What lawsuits are you referring to? Lawyers don't usually start lawsuits... unless there is some kind of a path to large amounts of money involved. Lawyers generally side with whatever their client wants... so "lawyers trying to stop it" sounds odd to me; and, certainly, unless someone is claiming their religious rights are being trod on, there is no way to simply lobby against abortion in this country on the basis of "god's will" - these are the same folks who made certain people remove slogans mentioning God from their offices :) The rest of your post, however - I've wondered about that myself. Why pray if there is a divine plan? (That is, why pray in asking for things). Prayers should be only in thanks that this "will" provided for something that seemed to favor you, right? God's will is apparently what is happening all around us. Good question. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 niviene,If you have ever read the bible you know that god has a devine plan but that plan can be changed through praying.... I have made the argument before in a post (Me and Irish both poninted out the same verse in the bible) If you want to read it I am sure you can ask Irisheyes about it. Op5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niviene Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 niviene,If you have ever read the bible you know that god has a devine plan but that plan can be changed through praying.... I have made the argument before in a post (Me and Irish both poninted out the same verse in the bible) If you want to read it I am sure you can ask Irisheyes about it. Op5 God's plan can be changed by praying? How does that work? What if two people are praying for opposite things? How does God then decide who "wins"? How does God decide which prayers to answer; or which prayers cannot be answered, or seem to not be answered? This doesn't make any sense at all, and in fact is even more confusing to me than any other aspect of the Christian religion! God is omniscient, so isn't everything then already determined? Oh, this is not helping me become a believer. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Oh, this is not helping me become a believer. :)In the first place we shouldn't be praying to change Gods will, we should be praying to find comfort and peace by surrendering to his will. To be in agreement with Gods will should be the aim of every Christain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 In the first place we shouldn't be praying to change Gods will, we should be praying to find comfort and peace by surrendering to his will. To be in agreement with Gods will should be the aim of every Christain.Well said, Infy.This was actually one of the hardest things for me to learn and accept as a Christian. For years I prayed for God to change this, or fix that, all according to my wishes and desires. Realizing that maybe I don't have the 'big picture' was a first step. Seeing that I can only see my point was another. So now, instead of praying "God, give me this. Make that person well. Fix this", I generally pray along the lines of, "God, if it be your will, please do this. Otherwise, please give me the grace and courage to accept whatever your will may be. And please help me to accept, even if I may not ever understand".Not to say that is the way we're supposed to pray, it just seems to help me remember that asking for selfish things may not always be in my best interest. It doesn't always stop me from asking, but I try to remember that "no", however softly spoken, is an answer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I remeber there being a story where God was going to kill someone or a city...I am not exactly sure. And one person praid god to forgive this person and not kill him/strike him down whatever. God changed his plan for the man. I am trying very hard to find this verse in the bible. It may take some time...but I remember it... Op5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 I remeber there being a story where God was going to kill someone or a city...I am not exactly sure. And one person praid god to forgive this person and not kill him/strike him down whatever. God changed his plan for the man. I am trying very hard to find this verse in the bible. It may take some time...but I remember it... Op5God is sensitive to the requests and needs of his children and our prayers can and do make a difference. However, God is sovereign and his plan for the ages will not be changed nor overcome. God has a perfect will for each one of us but that's not to say we can't choose what we have for breakfest, if you see the meaning. God can and will change the details but not his ultimate purpose for mankind. As long as your requests fall within his plans and you trust in his mercy and grace there is a good chance that he will answer your prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockytriton Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Perhaps it's God's will that terrorists are killing people. Or maybe it's his will that they kill people just so they get westerners mad enough to kill a bunch of muslims. Who's to say. In my opinion, the definition of God's will is "What I think should be done." With "I" of course being whoever is saying what should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biochemist Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I remeber there being a story where God was going to kill someone or a city...I am not exactly sure. And one person praid god to forgive this person and not kill him/strike him down whatever. God changed his plan for the man. The most frequently cited example of this is in Jonah. There are a couple of others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loarevalo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 We have free agency and can do whatever we please, whether is in harmony with God's will or not - this is fundamental. God will not do something for us that we can do ourselves, that is, God delegates as well to us and to those in authority to represent him here on Earth. The point is this: God has given us power to act for good, but it is by his grace that we can do this - we must ask for this help. If we ask, and is a righteous request, we will get it if we ask in faith - but we have to ask. When we pray we don't seek to change God's will, we are only exercising our faith in Him. The question of this thread should be understood as pertaining to faith, and free will - not as pertaining to determinancy. Sometimes we forget that we too are intelligent, and have a will, and power to act. Asking God for help is recognizing our depency to him, and thus praying is a way to show humility and faith. To return to the case of abortion: Was it God's will that she had sex, but later she didn't want the baby? I would say NO. It was the woman's will, and she's responsible for that decision. Was it meant to happen? No. It's different: God wanted it this way AND God knew it would be this way. God's omniscience doesn't determine how we act - doesn't restrain our freedom. God's foreknowledge is simply that - a knowledge of how things will unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loarevalo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Occasionally the Bible has passages that by their denotation contradict each other - while when interpreted under context, they are in harmony. I can't figure out the correct meaning of the following. I can't see if they are contradicting or equivalent statements: "He that is not with me is against me..." - Matthew 12:30"...he that is not against us is for us." - Luke 9:50 That came into my mind when Anakin (Stars Wars Ep.III) said the same words (in Matthew) to ObiWan, and he replied back, "only Siths speak in absolutes." I love that movie partially because of the quasi-postmodernistic use of ambiguity and uncertainty as to right/wrong, truth/falsehood. sorry to stray off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 There is no such thing as "God's Will". Anything alluding to God's, or any other supernatural being's will, is a certain set of circuimstances that happens to be meaningful for the observer in either a negative or a positive way. If this specific set of circuimstances wasn't meaningful, the relationships between the specific events wouldn't have been noticed, and nobody would've been any the wiser. The mere fact that any specific set of circuimstances as described above, is meaningful to any observer at all, is purely subjective and coincidental. When that individual goes so far as to imagine that the universe have planned this out millennia ago, is self-justification to the n-th degree. We are far too small for anything of consequence in the universe to have a plan in any form or way with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niviene Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 In the first place we shouldn't be praying to change Gods will, we should be praying to find comfort and peace by surrendering to his will. To be in agreement with Gods will should be the aim of every Christain. Inf - this is more along the lines of something I can understand. It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try to "change" it.... but something more along the lines of being able to accept whatever is in store for me makes sense. That's basically how I try to live, as it is. Whether or not it's Christian yet, well, I don't really know. I'm still questing. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loarevalo Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 If everything that is happening, or everything that is, is according to God's will, then we have no freedom of choice. In order to be free, we must be free to disobey God or to obey Him. Is it God's will that we sin? Sure, he said that we all sin, but he doesn't mean that it has to be like that. WE choose to sin, not God chooses for us. Again, we forget that we too are living beings with inteligence, freedom of choice, power. While God is perfect, he can still feel sorrow for us. While everything is not as it should it be (that is, perfect), everything is how it must be, the only way it could be or would be - because our flaws as humans enter into the equation. God knew it would be this way, but that doesn't mean He determined it to be as so - because there are other forms of life in the Universe beside Him. And something that lives exists as an entity that acts upon, or has a certain power over things - otherwise, there is no life and no purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Inf - this is more along the lines of something I can understand. It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try to "change" it.... but something more along the lines of being able to accept whatever is in store for me makes sense. That's basically how I try to live, as it is. Whether or not it's Christian yet, well, I don't really know. I'm still questing. :hihi:The scripture says in Math. 7:7; Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: This verse is what I understand as a good exmple of scientific inquiry. Science is in fact the study and investigation of things not yet completely understood. There is also a saying: None is so blind as he who will not see. Keep looking niviene, your answer is waiting and you have a promise that if you don't give-up the hunt, you'll find the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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