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#1 montgomery

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:58 PM

Can any person be shown 1000 objects, one at a time, and then remember every single one of them?

 

 

A dog can and it's very likely that this dog is not the exception but is the rule. The only reason this dog has achieved this remarkable memory task is because he/she has been taught by a dedicated human who cares and wants to know. It's likely that all border collies at least are capable of this level of learning.

 

So my point is, in posting this, can that sort of genius that most likely exceeds the level of known human genius, be harnessed and put to work for the sake of science?

 

I think we're seeing something very special that is of great interest to science. I suggest that some dogs are capable of some thinking abilities that the human so far is not. 

 

I think it's safe to say that the dog isn't reading the names written on the toys. 


Edited by montgomery, 11 February 2019 - 01:00 PM.


#2 Moronium

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:28 PM

I think we're seeing something very special that is of great interest to science. I suggest that some dogs are capable of some thinking abilities that the human so far is not. 

 

 

Very impressive, yes.

 

I've heard it said that most humans only use about 10% of their brain (power), but I've never known the basis for that claim.

 

Humans spend their whole lives learning and remembering concepts (including word meanings and a whole lot more), so what more can they do?

 

To me the impressive thing is what this dog can do, not the implications for "mankind."



#3 montgomery

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:22 PM

Very impressive, yes.

 

I've heard it said that most humans only use about 10% of their brain (power), but I've never known the basis for that claim.

 

Humans spend their whole lives learning and remembering concepts (including word meanings and a whole lot more), so what more can they do?

 

To me the impressive thing is what this dog can do, not the implications for "mankind."

Thank you for your comments and for taking an interest in this topic. Your comment that rang a bell for me was you saying that humans perhaps use only 10% of their brain capability. (power)

 

Could it be that this dog, and other dogs are tapping into a much higher per centage of their brain's capability? Or should we look for an answer in a dog's more finely attuned senses? Memory perhaps being the applicable sense. We are all well aware of dogs having more keen senses than humans, as it pertains to at least 3 of the 5 senses. Maybe all 5?

 

The only hesitation I had on not starting this thread was that is would start some people thinking on the military applications of the border collie's amazing abilities.

 

I have two border collies and so I'm somewhat familiar with their capablities. And so I'm suggesting that this dog is not some mental genius itself. I'm suggesting that we can promote the border collie's capacity for genius in probably all border collies.

 

Other breeds? Maybe? Wolves? Probably even moreso than border collies IMO.


Edited by montgomery, 11 February 2019 - 06:27 PM.


#4 sanctus

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:08 AM

Read this about the 10% myth:
https://en.wikipedia..._the_brain_myth



#5 montgomery

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 06:37 PM

Read this about the 10% myth:
https://en.wikipedia..._the_brain_myth

I would rather not but I'll skim over it if you think it's important to this topic.Something that would be more applicable in my opinion would be the question of whether the border collie is using his full brain capacity.

 

Fwiw, I accept the conclusion that the 10% thing is urban legend.

 

But I would suggest that we are certainly not using all of our brain's capacity. The 10% is probably an exaggeration. 

 

I think the human brain functions to fulfill the needs of the species, and likewise with the border collie. I don't know exacly how the ability to remember 1000 different objects correlates with that need of the dog but I'm interested in finding out. 

 

Could dogs be using their sense of smell to tell the difference between one object and another.

 

The reason I'm so interested in this topic is because humans have shortchanged animals so badly. This could be largely due to religious superstitious beliefs in which we used to believe that humans were distinct from other animals or mammals. Now DNA tells us that we're all related. Now we aren't supposed to be negatively affected by thinking that animals are not capable of higher thought proceses. 

 

Can you be of any help? 


Edited by montgomery, 13 February 2019 - 06:47 PM.


#6 Moronium

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:13 PM

The reason I'm so interested in this topic is because humans have shortchanged animals so badly. This could be largely due to religious superstitious beliefs in which we used to believe that humans were distinct from other animals or mammals.

 

 

Yeah, it basically comes from a smug sense of unique superiority, I think.

 

Millennia ago, in order to define the human species, Aristotle said it was the "rational animal," i.e., homo sapiens.


Edited by Moronium, 13 February 2019 - 07:15 PM.


#7 montgomery

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:20 PM

Yeah, it basically comes from a smug sense of unique superiority, I think.

 

Millennia ago, in order to define the human species, Aristotle said it was the "rational animal," i.e., homo sapiens.

Thank you for that, I've learned something today. Indeed I find you're right as the dictionary refers to 'wise man'.

 

Can you help us get any closer to understanding why the dog's brain has evolved to be able to accomplish this amazing feat, as opposed to the human brain that apparently didn't?

 

edit: Fwiw, I think that religious beliefs are responsible for that smugness. You didn't say.


Edited by montgomery, 13 February 2019 - 07:22 PM.


#8 Moronium

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 08:23 PM

edit: Fwiw, I think that religious beliefs are responsible for that smugness. You didn't say.

 

 

Naw, at least not inherently so.  Aristotle had no religion, and past as well as modern-day atheists also discount(ed) the intelligence of animals.


Edited by Moronium, 13 February 2019 - 08:26 PM.


#9 Moronium

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 08:30 PM

For what it's worth, decades ago psychologists declared that a German Shepard dog has the IQ of the average 6 year old human child.



#10 montgomery

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 01:17 PM

Naw, at least not inherently so.  Aristotle had no religion, and past as well as modern-day atheists also discount(ed) the intelligence of animals.

True, atheists and everybody discounted the intelligence of animals. But there's no denying that religious believers told us that humans were separate and apart from animals. Now we know that's not true. I would assume you accept DNA evidence?



#11 montgomery

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 01:22 PM

For what it's worth, decades ago psychologists declared that a German Shepard dog has the IQ of the average 6 year old human child.

I've always heard that it's a four year old child. But IQ is such a flawed method of judging intelligence isn't it. No IQ test is designed to measure anything other than human intelligence.