Vmedvil2 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Trump has spoken about leaving NATO, I tend to believe that NATO is much needed to keep enemies away from powers within NATO if someone leaves it all the nations within it would be greatly hurt, the leaving nations and the nations currently within NATO. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/01/15/trump-repeatedly-mulled-leaving-nato-military-alliance-report/2578184002/ Edited January 17, 2019 by VictorMedvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montgomery Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Is it hard too hard to believe that Trump was so braindead stupid that he would think and say that Nato wasn't needed? He had no idea of the fact that Nato is a tool of US aggression and is sorely needed by the US to justify and legitimize it's coming wars. He probably hasn't figured out yet that the US isn't intending to bomb Iran and slaughter another million without the Nato countries lending support for appearance sake at least. Same with the UN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 When you consider the failure of many NATO members to actually do what they re supposed to, I can see where he's coming from.AFAIK Canada has for the past 15 years or so performed very well in wargames, but failed to meet many of the agreements on readiness and actual dense spending. IIRC we're less than half of where we should be according to agreements. That's a problem! The other members are just as bad if not worse! Dunnthat and OceanBreeze 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montgomery Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) When you consider the failure of many NATO members to actually do what they re supposed to, I can see where he's coming from. AFAIK Canada has for the past 15 years or so performed very well in wargames, but failed to meet many of the agreements on readiness and actual dense spending. IIRC we're less than half of where we should be according to agreements. That's a problem! The other members are just as bad if not worse! I don't consider Canada not living up to it's Nato commitments a problem at all. We should be out of Nato and not helping the US in any way in their many wars of aggression.Nato serves no useful purpose and likely never did in my opinion. It was all promoted by the US and the Soviet Union was never a threat. The US is now and has been the threat to world peace since WW2. If that sounds like I've been outspoken on the issue, it's because I am and I want to make an impression. It's time now that at least Canada does the right thing to promote world peace. Edited January 21, 2019 by GAHD stop doing that please. fixed bad quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 I don't consider Canada not living up to it's Nato commitments a problem at all. We should be out of Nato and not helping the US in any way in their many wars of aggression.Nato serves no useful purpose and likely never did in my opinion. It was all promoted by the US and the Soviet Union was never a threat. The US is now and has been the threat to world peace since WW2. If that sounds like I've been outspoken on the issue, it's because I am and I want to make an impression. It's time now that at least Canada does the right thing to promote world peace. I disagree with you, obviously. For one, people are not as a general rule "nice" unless it's to your face where they instinctively know you can react to aggression. Mob/country reaction is generally speaking similar IMHO. I think you're missing out on a large chunk of history if you don't think the USSR is/was a threat. Governments by nature are like schizophrenic psychopaths if you bother to anthropomorphize them. Literally every nation is a threat to Canada, including Canada. The world is not covered in bubble-wrap and gumdrops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montgomery Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) I disagree with you, obviously. For one, people are not as a general rule "nice" unless it's to your face where they instinctively know you can react to aggression. Mob/country reaction is generally speaking similar IMHO. I think you're missing out on a large chunk of history if you don't think the USSR is/was a threat. Governments by nature are like schizophrenic psychopaths if you bother to anthropomorphize them. Literally every nation is a threat to Canada, including Canada. The world is not covered in bubble-wrap and gumdrops...Yeah, I know all the talking points but the reality of history tells me a different story now. Since the fall of the Soviet Union the US has clearly demonstrated that it's the world's aggressor. You know, 40 US led wars of aggression since WW2 alone. And then, when the Soviets agreed to tear down the wall, they were doublecrossed by the US and it's continuing encroachment toward Russia's borders. I'm inviting you to wade into some of the details with me. I'll choose an example from many to kick it off. Let's take the Vietnam war in which the Vietnamese people attempted to reunite their country, and finally did succeed. I'm suggesting that the dominoes wouldn't have tumbled because that wasn't the agenda. The agenda was the Vietnamese people's not another communist country's. Literally every nation is a threat to Canada, including Canada. The world is not covered in bubble-wrap and gumdrops... I'm trying hard to make some sense out of that? You must be suggesting that some people of another nationality are going to attempt to take over our government by military means, and install their preference? But that's about the best guess I can come up with. Well, maybe the US but not by military force but possibly by economic blackmail. A wild guess over what you're on about so better I wait for your explanation of how the Soviet Union was an actual threat? Or start in reverse order with Russia if you like and how they grabbed the Crimea. I have no prreferences, they're all pretty much the same. It's not correct to say the USSR is/was a threat. You can try 'was' a threat if you like. Edited January 21, 2019 by montgomery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Yeah, I know all the talking points but the reality of history......It's not correct to say the USSR is/was a threat. You can try 'was' a threat if you like. I might bother to respond to the rest in the future, but for now just that last point has me thinking "tell that to the Ukraine." Both a century ago, and very recently...unless you're really concerned with pedantic rebranding of names and not the underlying structure of power that is still in large part represented. Quote Literally every nation is a threat to Canada, including Canada. The world is not covered in bubble-wrap and gumdrops... I'm trying hard to make some sense out of that? You're probably having difficulties because you didn't link everything in the paragraph together into the intended cohesive whole. You're "picking and choosing" what you read and thus seem to be understanding something different than what was said. For now I'll explain the more direct link below, and ask that you re-read the original post and consider how one point links to the others. :) Governments by nature are like schizophrenic psychopaths if you bother to anthropomorphize them. Literally every nation is a threat to Canada, including Canada. The world is not covered in bubble-wrap and gumdrops...By nature, governments are an amalgamation of individuals. That whole "bothering to anthropomorphize them" is intended to point out that nations, due to the vast array of people that are are components of any one decision, tend to act like paranoid schizophrenics. Canada is no exception: just look at the conservative vs liberal divide, and how desperately each tries to entrench power against the others at every opportunity. THAT is what I mean by Canada being a threat to Canada. It's own schizophrenic tendencies are just as dangerous to itself as they would be to an individual with the same mental issues. Have you been following OUR yellow-vests? The "Western alliance" movement is gaining traction because of Ontario's stupid policy dick-swinging, and it's a very real possibility for Alberta and other disenfranchised provinces to trigger Referendum and secede to avoid the absolute idiocy that is being ham-fisted about by the current government. Do you remember Quebec's own attempts to leave Canada and become sovereign? It's quite likely we'll see something similar from the prairies, and without developed grain and oil industries GFL balancing the books for the rest of Canada's horrible economic mismanagement. Don't rely on CNN. or me. to find that out. gov.gc.ca has PLENTY of documentation for you to read though yourself. I mean, just look at what they've done since they forced-though the election reform on decenber 12th(or was it 14th that it was ratified and passed into law? I'll check later if I feel like it.) Right now the various provincial governments are using newly appointed ( NOT ELECTED ) individuals in positions of power to snuff out anyone talking politics with fines and whatnot. You are no longer allowed to point out what a particular policy or individual is doing to/with funding without facing $5k-100K in fines MONTHLY. That might not be the INTENT of the new legislation but is currently happening and is the actual EFFECT of it. Edit: Heck, even me just writing this paragraph MIGHT mean that I have to register an LLC, pay bank fees for a linked LLC account that I'll have to open EXPRESSLY for paying my internet connection, transfer the connection to the LLC and have an accountant keep tabs on it because I'm now effectively a "Third Party" engaging in "Political advertisement." Combine that set of ineffectual issues with what the OP is talking about, and it's no wonder Canada (and many other NATO nations) are being looked at as "useless." It really DOES makes sense from a dispassionate viewpoint for the USA to go "k, defend yourselves" and withdraw; they are the only nation making good on NATO guidelines. Everyone else is living peacefully off their backs. Edited January 22, 2019 by GAHD clearly marked in bold Dunnthat and OceanBreeze 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leracatalen Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Trump has spoken about leaving NATO, I tend to believe that NATO is much needed to keep enemies away from powers within NATO if someone leaves it all the nations within it would be greatly hurt, the leaving nations and the nations currently within NATO. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/01/15/trump-repeatedly-mulled-leaving-nato-military-alliance-report/2578184002/I like the speechesHe is an intelligent man in my opinion OceanBreeze 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 I like the speechesHe is an intelligent man in my opinion How depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnthat Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 When you consider the failure of many NATO members to actually do what they re supposed to, I can see where he's coming from. AFAIK Canada has for the past 15 years or so performed very well in wargames, but failed to meet many of the agreements on readiness and actual dense spending. IIRC we're less than half of where we should be according to agreements. That's a problem! The other members are just as bad if not worse!Not only Canada, but many of the many nations that rely upon NATO to defend them against the threat of Russian aggression, refuse to pay their fair share for that protection. The United States has been carrying that burden for far too many years. I personally feel that it was a very well planned moved of Trump to say that we did not need NATO and that we were leaving. All of a sudden these countries are paying their share. We are trillions of dollars in debt and yet we have not only been paying the largest portion of NATO, but giving these countries foreign aide as well. WHY??? OceanBreeze 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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