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#1 HouseKnight1

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:26 AM

According to Jerome Vermlin

My note: THE HISTORY IS LONG, SO THE TRUTH IS LONG. THE LIE IS SHORT BUT MISLEADING. IT DIFFERS FROM THE TRUTH DUE TO THE LACK OF DETAILS.

As we learn from Vermlin’s book, the widespread comparison of Ashkenazi Zionists with White settlers of the USA , or with the White South Africans (while Palestinians are depicted as Indians or South African Blacks), strongly contradicts the real history. The Zionist immigration to Palestine largely preceded  the arrival of the heterogeneous ancestors of the Palestinian People. The Zionism haven’t disrupted all over the history.

Jerome Vermlin:

 “The «mainstream» western media persistently refers to the modern state of Israel, not as part of a post-Ottoman Palestine Mandate partitioned in 1947 by the UN between its Arabs and Jews, but as having been «born,» «created,» «established,» even «founded, » as though out of the blue, in «1948,» characteristically coupling such simplistic imbalances with equally imbalanced references exclusively to Arab (called «Palestinian») refugees displaced by «the war that followed Israel’s creation.» This book’s thesis is that modern Israel’s roots in Jewish Palestine presence run three millennia deeper than «1948.»

………………..

My note: here’s the opinion of Muslim anti-Zionist:

“Abdul Hamid was the sultan during the time of the creation of the Zionist movement by Theodor Herzl in 1896. In 1901, in response to Herzl’s request for Palestine, it was narrated that sultan Abdul Hameed told Herzl’s messenger: “while I am alive, I would rather push a sword into my body than see the land of Palestine cut & given away from the Islamic Caliphate.”

He was even offered a lot of money. He rejected the offer saying ‘I will not sell a single inch of the country, because it is not mine, it belongs to all the Muslims. They paid for this empire with their blood. And we will redeem it with our blood. Let the Jews keep their millions. If the empire is partitioned, they can get Palestine for free, but that will happen over our dead bodies.’

Herzl himself visited the Sultan and reiterated the offer, to which Sultan replied, ‘Even you paid me the weight of the Earth in gold, I would never agree. I would never bring shame upon Muslims. If you want to buy Palestine, know that the price is the blood of all the Muslims. I have no enemies, other than the enemies of Islam and the Muslims.’”

……………

Now, let’s consider, who exactly paid his blood for the right to live in Palestine:

Jerome Vermlin:

“Legal documents and correspondence found in the Cairo Geniza tell of some 50 Palestine Jewish communities in the 10th and 11th centuries in «different parts of the Land, including all the coastal towns — from Tyre to El Arish —, most of the important inland towns, and small villages.» There are references to Jews apparently in Tyre and Galilee, Ramleh and its environs, «numerous inhabitants of the Shefela and the Sharon Valley,» and Hebron and Gaza and their vicinities.

The worst of times for the Yishuv (The Jewish community of Palestine), and for Palestine’s Christians, during the Fatimid era was the rule of its third caliph, known as El Hakem (or Hakim), 996 – 1021. ……… In 1010, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed.  «Churches were everywhere wrecked and plundered, or converted into mosques. The synagogues in Kjah, Ramleh, and other places, were dealt with in a like manner………

«In 1012, Al-Hakim ordered the forcible conversion of Christians and Jews to Islam, and the resulting persecution in Palestine was fiercer than is generally supposed. The Cordoban scholar and poet Rabbi Yosef Ben Avitur, who was in the country at the time, wrote a dirge on the events that took place.

The troops played a major part in the pogroms, and the poet tells of ‘pregnant women disemboweled and the blood of old men and babies freely spilt, synagogues destroyed by ravening beasts, victims of the sword in Zion left without burial;’ he speaks of rape and ruthless mutilation, of Jews being forced to convert and to ‘forget their covenant with their Lord, and their cherished Land.’

«Even though Al-Hakim’s decrees were eventually revoked, and the policy of religious toleration restored, the Yishuv was badly hit by the persecution. The Jewish community expelled by Al-Hakim from Jerusalem established itself in Ramleh. Jews came from Iraq to Ramleh and Tiberias.

 ………….

«When the Crusaders came to Palestine after 460 years of Arab and non-Arabic Moslem rule, they found an Arabic-speaking population, composed of a dozen races (apart from Jews and Druzes), practicing five versions of Islam and eight of heterodox Christianity.

«At this time, a full thousand years after the fall of the Jewish state, there were Jewish communities all over the country. Fifty of them are known to us; they include Jerusalem, Tiberias, Ramleh, Ashkelon, Caesarea, and Gaza.» Bahat wrote:  «Jewish communities along the coast, such as those at Rafah, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea, flourished during this [11th] century and maintained cultural relations with Egypt,» citing documents found in the Cairo Genizah.

6.2 Crusader Conquest of Palestine and its Jews

It wasn’t purely Arab or even purely Muslim fighting forces that fought the Crusaders. From contemporary records, we know of the Jews’ organized military participation in desperate efforts at fending them off.

«A contemporary Crusader account of the conquest of Jerusalem acknowledges the valor of the Jewish fighters: ‘And here, in front of us, were the foreigners, Jew, Turk, and Arab, fighting for their lives with slingstones, with catapults, with fire and venom . . . and when the end came upon the foreigners, they withdrew from one battlefront, only to find a second battlefront facing them. And though there was terror on all sides, none put down his sword; the Turk, the Arab, and the Jew were among the fallen. The Jew is the last to fall.»

And not in Jerusalem only.  Katz wrote: «The Jews almost single-handedly defended Haifa against the Crusaders, holding out in the besieged town for a whole month (June-July 1099).» ………… Archeologist  Bahat backed this up by citing «several chronicles» relating «the acts of heroism which the Jews of Haifa had been roused…

My note:

https://beta.wikiver...ki/_1099_-_1291

“Simultaneously with the conquest of Jerusalem, the crusaders embarked on conquest missions throughout the country. In July 1100, they carried out a military attack on the urban settlement in Haifa (in the Bat Galim neighborhood). According to the research literature, a large Jewish community lived in Haifa at that time. Historian Benzion Dinur emphasized his image: «The city is a Jewish city … its citizens — Jews (the Saracens /Muslims are only in the garrison!), Its defense — the defense of the Jews, and its victory — the disgrace of the Christians. … The Jews of the city rejected the demands of the Crusaders to surrender and convert, and even left the city walls and attacked the Crusader forces and their siege towers. In order to conquer the city, Tancred, the prince of the Galilee, was forced to bring to Haifa many forces both at sea and on land. Naval forces that moved about 200 vessels to Haifa, came from the Republic of Venice. The Jewish residents joined the small Fatimid garrison; «They stood firm on their souls,» until the Crusader forces gave up and withdrew. [6] When the onslaught of the crusaders returned, the Jews and the Muslims stood «in their faces with unabated heroism.» [7] After a lull, the Crusader conquerors returned and used strong assaulting forces. And after 27 days of siege, the «Haifa Fortress» as its Hebrew name, or Castellum Caiphas, fell under the Latin name, by the Crusader conquerors. [8] Some of the inhabitants fled to Caesarea and Acre, the rest of the inhabitants, who did not manage to escape, were murdered by the Crusaders. Historian Benjamin Ze’ev Kedar notes that «this was the last time before the appearance of the Jewish Legion in World War I that a Jewish force took part in a military campaign on the land of Palestine.» [9]

Conquest and mass murder took place one after the other in the coastal cities of Caesarea and Arsuf in 1101 and Acre in 1104. The same happened in some of the Galilee villages, which were conquered without resistance as early as 1089. The Crusaders did not conquer the cities of Tire and Ashkelon during the wars of the summer of 1099, Which were controlled by the Muslims, and the Jewish communities continued to flourish there.”

This is not Zionist era propaganda. Bahat quoted a 1719 French priest and historian: «And Haifa, although moderate in size, was strongly fortified, and, perhaps because of this, for a long time it withstood the mighty onslaught of the Prince Tancred, who attacked it from the sea and also from the land, with the help of the Venetians. Although the Jews fought with courage, they were overcome by the might of the invaders.»

The well-known historian of the early Crusades, Albert of Aachen, in his ‘Book of Travels,’» referring to the conquest of Haifa by the Crusaders: «And the city of Haifa . . . which the Jews defended with great courage, to the shame and embarrassment of the Christians.»

(My note: Most of Haifa Jews were slaughtered by the Crusaders.  Yet additional Jewish settlements of Galilee fought the Crusaders.)

The Crusaders conquered Jerusalem in 1099, brutally slaughtering its Muslims and Jews in an orgy so gruesome that crimson tales of it chill the blood to this day. Contemporary records indicate that the carnage was not limited to the actual wars of conquest, or to the battlefield: ‘On the third day after the victory, at their commanders’ orders, the Crusaders carried out a dreadful massacre of all the people who still survived in the city. 

Continue reading:

http://aaronblog.co/...wish-palestine/

 



#2 LaurieAG

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:15 AM

http://time.com/5473...ael-indictment/

https://www.abc.net....harges/10575782

https://www.npr.org/...-case-this-year

https://www.smh.com....203-p50jrl.html

https://www.washingt...m=.92e581caab5d



#3 HouseKnight1

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:09 AM

I do understand, that this long article is VERY tiring, but I cannot make it shorter. The Jewish history is long and complicated, and Jewish truth is yet longer and yet more complicated. Well, anti-Semitic/pro-Palestinian lies are short and cheap. To make reasonable conclusion, You must read this article up to its end. Well, searching the truth is tiring.



#4 sanctus

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:27 AM

Admit I did not read the first post, but your second post has something in it which I see as a big problem: there is no such thing as jewish truth (or catholic truth or muslim truth), truth is just reality based on facts. Adding anything in front of "truth" usually is just a sign that it is a lie or at least a very contorted and interpreted version of truth.



#5 A-wal

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 06:55 AM

Admit I did not read the first post, but your second post has something in it which I see as a big problem: there is no such thing as jewish truth (or catholic truth or muslim truth), truth is just reality based on facts. Adding anything in front of "truth" usually is just a sign that it is a lie or at least a very contorted and interpreted version of truth.

This basically sums up every one of his posts.



#6 exchemist

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 09:08 AM

The Jews and Palestinians are largely descended from the same family group. It is argued that the Palestinians were Jews that decided to stay in Palestine and convert to Islam. Mohammeds mother was a Jew by all accounts. https://shavei.org/p...s-jewish-roots/ It is unbelievable that peoples living in Palestine with differing belief systems did not intermarry a few thousand years ago. 

 

Its only about 600km from Egypt to Palestine. Walking along well known trade routes how could some take 40 years to cover that distance, has someone been making up stories ? 

In fact, there is no "P" sound or letter in Arabic. The Arabic for Palestinian is transliterated as: "Filistin".

 

Anyone remember David and Goliath, Jews vs. Philistines, in the Old Testament?  

 

So these people seem to have been around ever since the time that story was written, in much the same territory, whatever religion they followed.  



#7 HouseKnight1

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:31 AM

Seriously simplifying, and missing most of the history of the planet from the original Denovians, Neanderthals, Homo Sapiens who are our ancestors, more so in some than others :) . And briefly looking at the last blink of time, missing out empires etc. 

 

If my history is correct :)  Settlers that went to the USA mainly from Europe, initially settled in small numbers, once there numbers increased due to immigration and breeding, they were able to carry out large scale land grabs from the indigenous population. They used force of arms to subjugate and push the indigenous peoples into reservations, and excluded them from trading on a level playing field with new comers, this still appears to be the case today for those living on the reservations. (It is not possible to get a loan to develop land, on land owned by the government of the USA). This has parallels with Palestine and Israel, except the settlers are descended from the same racial grouping ie they are not too distant cousins.

 

South Africa is slightly more complex, but not much, it was also settled by Europeans. The San and Hottentot (now classified coloured ie not black) who lived there were side lined, they were nomadic hunter gatherers. The Blacks Africans (Zulu and the Corsa) arrived on mass after the Europeans looking for work. They then themselves out bread and sidelined the Europeans due to Economic sanctions from the rest of the world. South Africa now has a Democracy, and huge mineral wealth that may work for all the peoples living in South Africa ( if the politicians can stop lining there own pockets :(  ). I understand the coloured peoples traditionally fished, they now can not easily get licences for fishing, because they are not black (). It seems it is still not a level playing field.

 

People have in the past migrated and traded all over the globe, and due to some financial, genetic advantage(resistance to new disease) military advantage (see Americas, Palestine, various historical empires) have managed to take over the country, resources, and culture of where they have overwhelmed the indigenous people. 

 

If the USA had not accepted the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine after the second world war about 5 minutes after Israel declared itself a new state, would the world be a safer place today. 60 years on would Palestinians be living happily alongside there neighbours happily buying and selling land. Intermarrying etc in a land of nuclear power, desert and irrigation () if outside powers had not interfered, or had perhaps applied sanctions until they agreed to get along.

 

Perhaps I have over simplified, sanctions will not happen because the US congress would never sanction it.

 

People who find an advantage to live on Palestinian land will continue to migrate there build homes and have families with in the state of Israel. It might just be Human nature, or ground hog day.  

You obviously haven't read My/Vermlin's article, since all My stuff is about the fact that Zionism lasts just 2500 years being uninterrupted. Israel is not an "accident", it is just a consequence of long historic process.



#8 montgomery

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 01:02 PM

You obviously haven't read My/Vermlin's article, since all My stuff is about the fact that Zionism lasts just 2500 years being uninterrupted. Israel is not an "accident", it is just a consequence of long historic process.

The original idea was mostly to facilitate the West's continuance of aggression and colonialism in the ME. It obviously should have never happened and the world may pay a very high price for allowing it, in the end. 

 

We don't need to accept the common rhetoric that Jews couldn't live side by side with Europeans, or any others for that matter. There's nothing that makes them special, except what's in their own heads.

 

But I guess we have to accept the mess created by the West now, because the only unsatisfactory solution is nuclear war, and that means the rest of the world too. It really does appear that the Zionists are going to keep it up until there are no Palestinians left in the apartheid state.  



#9 HouseKnight1

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 03:05 PM

The original idea was mostly to facilitate the West's continuance of aggression and colonialism in the ME. It obviously should have never happened and the world may pay a very high price for allowing it, in the end. 

 

We don't need to accept the common rhetoric that Jews couldn't live side by side with Europeans, or any others for that matter. There's nothing that makes them special, except what's in their own heads.

 

But I guess we have to accept the mess created by the West now, because the only unsatisfactory solution is nuclear war, and that means the rest of the world too. It really does appear that the Zionists are going to keep it up until there are no Palestinians left in the apartheid state.  

Factually, just opposite is correct: British Empire violated the terms of Mandate, discriminated Jews and prevented Zionism, with the purpose to prolong its presence and control over Middle East. All Your assertions are fake slogans, contradicting history and all known facts. Instead of learn history and make proper conclusions, You are shouting fake slogans, invented with the purpose to achieve vile goals, and to revive anti-Semitism. 



#10 HouseKnight1

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 03:26 PM

Seriously simplifying, and missing most of the history of the planet from the original Denovians, Neanderthals, Homo Sapiens who are our ancestors, more so in some than others :) . And briefly looking at the last blink of time, missing out empires etc. 

 

If my history is correct :)  Settlers that went to the USA mainly from Europe, initially settled in small numbers, once there numbers increased due to immigration and breeding, they were able to carry out large scale land grabs from the indigenous population. They used force of arms to subjugate and push the indigenous peoples into reservations, and excluded them from trading on a level playing field with new comers, this still appears to be the case today for those living on the reservations. (It is not possible to get a loan to develop land, on land owned by the government of the USA). This has parallels with Palestine and Israel, except the settlers are descended from the same racial grouping ie they are not too distant cousins.

 

South Africa is slightly more complex, but not much, it was also settled by Europeans. The San and Hottentot (now classified coloured ie not black) who lived there were side lined, they were nomadic hunter gatherers. The Blacks Africans (Zulu and the Corsa) arrived on mass after the Europeans looking for work. They then themselves out bread and sidelined the Europeans due to Economic sanctions from the rest of the world. South Africa now has a Democracy, and huge mineral wealth that may work for all the peoples living in South Africa ( if the politicians can stop lining there own pockets :(  ). I understand the coloured peoples traditionally fished, they now can not easily get licences for fishing, because they are not black (). It seems it is still not a level playing field.

 

People have in the past migrated and traded all over the globe, and due to some financial, genetic advantage(resistance to new disease) military advantage (see Americas, Palestine, various historical empires) have managed to take over the country, resources, and culture of where they have overwhelmed the indigenous people. 

 

If the USA had not accepted the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine after the second world war about 5 minutes after Israel declared itself a new state, would the world be a safer place today. 60 years on would Palestinians be living happily alongside there neighbours happily buying and selling land. Intermarrying etc in a land of nuclear power, desert and irrigation () if outside powers had not interfered, or had perhaps applied sanctions until they agreed to get along.

 

Perhaps I have over simplified, sanctions will not happen because the US congress would never sanction it.

 

People who find an advantage to live on Palestinian land will continue to migrate there build homes and have families with in the state of Israel. It might just be Human nature, or ground hog day.  

Zionist idea states, that the Jews are indigenous in Palestine. When Herzl proposed Uganda as the Jewish State, Zionist congress had rejected his idea, and proclaimed Palestine as the goal. "The Firsters" considered local Arabs as their brethren. Such views expressed Zionist intellectuals, like poet Bialik and painter Rubin. Just the Palestinians have rejected Jewish wooing. After numerous slaps in the face (last of these were Oslo terror and Intifada), some Jews try to appease 'Palestinian brethren" offering self-destruction of Israel. Now, even anti-Palestinian Jewish extremists call Palestinians "our cousins". 

However, last genetic studies indicate that at least 50% of the Palestinian population  are genetically very distant from local origin. Maybe, Palestinians themselves were informed in the matter much better, than Jews.


Edited by HouseKnight1, 28 January 2019 - 03:30 PM.


#11 montgomery

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:14 PM

 

My note: THE HISTORY IS LONG, SO THE TRUTH IS LONG. THE LIE IS SHORT BUT MISLEADING. IT DIFFERS FROM THE TRUTH DUE TO THE LACK OF DETAILS.

 

The details aren't lacking at all. The lies and fabrications are manifest.

 

Factually, just opposite is correct: British Empire violated the terms of Mandate, discriminated Jews and prevented Zionism, with the purpose to prolong its presence and control over Middle East. All Your assertions are fake slogans, contradicting history and all known facts. Instead of learn history and make proper conclusions, You are shouting fake slogans, invented with the purpose to achieve vile goals, and to revive anti-Semitism. [/quote]

 

I don't blame the Israeli people, I blame Zionists and the US for promoting their apartheid regime. It serves as a strategic benefit to the US ongoing aggression in the ME.

We will all likely be victims of payback, including you. The difference between me and you is that you promoted it.

 

 

I don't blame the Israeli people, I blame Zionists and the US for promoting their apartheid regime. It serves as a strategic benefit to the US ongoing aggression in the ME.

We will all likely be victims of payback, including you. The difference between me and you is that you promoted it.


Edited by montgomery, 06 February 2019 - 12:15 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Jews of Palestine, Crusaders, mamluks, Salah ad Din, Maimonides, Jerusalem, Ottoman empire, the Old Yishuv, Medieval Zionism