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New Equivalence Principles?


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#52 Dubbelosix

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Posted Today, 04:18 AM

What I find interesting about this whole idea of a black hole being subject to Hawking radiation generated ''analogue'' to Larmor radiation for accelerated charges is that as I have mentioned before, early scientists considered the electron to be a stable extremal black hole - can we ignore the silly outcomes of some of the physics and just suggest a breakdown of our understanding, instead of accepting they are bare singularities - which doesn't explain anything nor can we understand such an object. 

 

I think I gave a pretty good argument why a stable black hole cannot exist in nature - this all boiled down to an argument that if the black hole truly was stable then it would have a zero-entropy and according to the third law of thermodynamics, it would suggest it would be a system at absolute zero - if they really are, they'd be the first objects that would break my understanding of zero point fields. So let's assume from here on, that the third law in this context holds true. 

 

If scientists had been aware of Larmor radiation for the electron, and if the theory of the electron being a micro black hole is true, what did they think this acceleration radiation was? Was it truly a direct analogy of black hole charge to Larmor radiation for any accelerated charge? It would appear they would have uncontested this assumption - but would they have additionally seen this as generated through a Hawking radiation? In which case, how did the system actually remain stable? If there is an answer to this out there it would solve the problem of how a black hole could be in the ground state, but have a non-zero entropy. 

 

It may be due, for instance, to a particle production on the horizon produced from strong gravitational curvatures assuming it does this because it cannot decay into any simpler (just like a hydrogen atom in the ground state). So... I did some digging... according to the main poster who answered the question, a system can have a non-zero entropy at absolute temperatures: [[BUT]] big warning bells has to ring in this instance because the true understanding of quantum mechanics is that no system can be in a ground state - unless black holes are special creatures. 

 

 https://physics.stac...t-absolute-zero

 

 

So for now, I will remain skeptical until I can investigate some of the things they are claiming with more clarity. I am sure there will be a misapplication of physics somewhere to explain the result, if the result is true. 



#53 Dubbelosix

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Posted Today, 04:22 AM

Yeah, a big stipulation was made by the poster ''the third law is not useful for quantum mechanics,'' which tells me this person really doesn't understand the implication of the law or its universal role in quantum mechanical zero point fields...

 

Regardless, I'll still be open that they may be right the Von Neumann entropy allows a non-zero entropy at [actual zero point temperatures] because a casual glance through the internet hasn't revealed for me yet any corroborating evidence.



#54 VictorMedvil

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Posted Today, 04:28 AM

Yeah, a big stipulation was made by the poster ''the third law is not useful for quantum mechanics,'' which tells me this person really doesn't understand the implication of the law or its universal role in quantum mechanical zero point fields...

 

Regardless, I'll still be open that they may be right the Von Neumann entropy allows a non-zero entropy at [actual zero point temperatures] because a casual glance through the internet hasn't revealed for me yet any corroborating evidence.

 

It couldn't possibly have a zero temperature and still emit hawking radiation, there has to be some level of atomic or molecular movement to generate hawking radiation in the first place dubbel. Otherwise, the hawking radiation has no source to come from without it, itself moving away from the BH and would not be there without some amount of temperature driving it, some level of entropy as well this implies, even if it is just quantum movement and quantum vibration there is some temperature within the system absolute zero temperature is still impossible even for a BH, especially with all the gravitational potential energy crushing the Energy-mass together. The level of energy that a BH outputs is that of our sun in a year in an hour or more, there has to be especially in the photon sphere much Atomic,Quantum and Molecular Movement.


Edited by VictorMedvil, Today, 04:36 AM.


#55 Dubbelosix

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Posted Today, 05:09 AM

It couldn't possibly have a zero temperature and still emit hawking radiation, ...

 

Yes quite right, which is why its so difficult to find arguments for the case for stable black holes. I am actually doing some more investigation into any possibilities in literature that allow a system to have a non-zero entropy at absolute zero temperatures.