Buffy Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Should we push holsters on gradeschoolers so they don't shoot themselves in the nuts?Some people argue that! Most of them are sex prudes too! Get my point? Irresponsible gun use and sex use is somewhat similar: its the "irresponsible" part that gets people hurt or killed. Of course guns are a whole lot more likely to cause harm: there's unfortunately no such thing as a "gun condom" and the whole point of each is diametrically opposed: "cause death" versus "cause life or at least produce lots of fun".... none the less there are those who would put a gun on every hip and at the same time ban sex except for procreation.... Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Some people argue that!But what do you say? Or better yet, let's start from the beginning: child sex = good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 But what do you say? Or better yet, let's start from the beginning: child sex = good or bad?Again and again and again: it has to do with responsibility. Are 8 year olds responsible? No! Is a 45 year-old who thinks he's Peter Pan molesting an 8 year old commiting a crime? Yes, because the 8-year old isn't responsible enough to give consent, its therefore *assault* and the bastard ought to be thrown away! Again, this has everything to do with people being selfish or abusive and nothing to do with sex itself! I find it facinating that so many people hide their own reprehensible behavior by putting up sex as a smoke screen: "boys will be boys" "she made me rape her because of that low cut dress" "i just love children, what's wrong with that?" When its really about power, which would make them selfish and cruel, its easy to hide behind sex and say "i couldn't help myself"... Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 ban both and promote education so that people can become ultra intelligent? we could brow beat our enemies to death.. the point of the thread was my intention to point out sex being a dangerous tool in society. under the assumption people can't handle recreational sex, buffy you say i have the wrong idea... i hope i do, or there isn't much for me to live for. and of course to get some opinions and clarifications, which have been provided. the fact that sex can be used for good doesn't mean it isn't one of the worst most destructive tools known to man. a loaded gun in the hands of maniacs for as many sane and healthy practitioners. those who give sex a bad name are those who aren't good at it? would trainging them help... training them to be good people being a separate topic. people who abuse sex but are so good at it the abused stick around and beg for more. i can't advocate a sexual prohibition, no sex for anybody young or old, again bringing up huxley and lowry, the state makes the babies and raises them in a creche system, everyone is sterile but can dry hump to releave stress, society would eat itself alive. however. how many sexually repressed societies (without even so much as open mouthed kissing) flourish and prosper to the point where adults have to be trained to have sex for procreation because they have no practical experience? (where people run around the country teaching couples hands on how to procreate, what a job.) near total sexual prohibition works. but the point is they are offered training when they need it. should our society also have goverment agents running around training people tantra and kamasutra to avoid people ruining their lives by doing it wrong? an open society that preaches sex is ok through massmedia, that sex is a tool, and is ok to use without instilling within those sexually hyperactive citizens is dangerous. buffy is right, people can competently weild sex, its the people who use it as a tool to gain power and who otherwise aren't nice people that give it a bad name. that though wasn't my question, its if all people in general can handle sex, sure some people can but as a whole, as a society would we be better off with total prohibition of sex from the mass media? a comprimise instead of prohibition? should sex ed in highschool be hands on? hire people, no doubt there are people out there willing to screw highschool students.. (thinking this example is nuked at inception). should there be manditory classes and training courses dedicated to etiquette and relationships, but most importantly how to do it well, training people when it counts, young, how to do it right? how to win a girl over 101how to *f for fun 101how to deal with rejection 101 etc its nice to tell kids its ok, but education isn't a one lane road, teaching people, and training them is the missing link. as in another thread maybe the problem is that listening to a teacher and watching videos isnt visceral enough. like drivers ed you have to drive to understand. we don't give 16 year olds a license with only theoretical knowdledge no matter how well they've mastered that they have to feel the pedals, develop a tangible reletionship with a vehicle before they can drive it. commercials, and the rest of the massmedia, thus opens the door, showing people what to do, the good sex guide is more theory, a tour guide. open frank discussion is also helps. but the real learning often occurs in the back seat under duress as many young women will attest. people are still innocent and ignorant even though the tools are there. if kids are having sex why not train them to do it properly? as an extention to PE... (still thinking perhaps even the most open minded people will not understand my meaning) more people need to admit they need a tour guide, hands on instruction and accept and be greatful for the assistance. how do you train a 20-30 year old male with something to prove to himself and his friends with emasculating him? few people would admit they aren't able to handle themselves even after proving repeatedly to reams of disappointed women how terrible they are at being gentlemen and sex partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 the point of the thread was my intention to point out sex being a dangerous tool in society....the fact that sex can be used for good doesn't mean it isn't one of the worst most destructive tools known to man. a loaded gun in the hands of maniacs for as many sane and healthy practitioners.Got that. All I'm saying is its only the tool, and the only reason its an effective tool is that people have raised it to the level of evil taboo. If it wasn't considered so evil, it wouldn't be so effective!those who give sex a bad name are those who aren't good at it?That's not what I said: I said if you haven't had any experience at all, its dangerous to pontificate about it like an expert. You're welcome to, just don't expect to be taken very seriously by some people.people who abuse sex but are so good at it the abused stick around and beg for more.Abuse is abuse, these people will abuse no matter what. Sex is a good way to abuse people because society treats it as dangerous and evil so its effective. If society did not treat it this way, it would not be as effective. I'm repeating this because the point is not getting through....in a creche system, everyone is sterile but can dry hump to releave stress, society would eat itself alive.Why is this about sex and not about dysfunctional, hypercontrolled dictatorship societies? If you did not get this *major* point about Brave New World, you need to go back and re-read it without being mesmerized by the sex! Huxleys point was that sex and drugs can be used to distract attention from lack of freedom, and he also was pointing out how benign and meaningless they become when human values are discounted by society. Again: not about the sex its about the control/power/hate/selfishness. Stop staring at my boobs.how many sexually repressed societies (without even so much as open mouthed kissing) flourish and prosper...Like the Taliban? Flourish? I don't think so. Sexually repressed societies are among the most dysfunctional because laws and mores against sex are used as a mechanism of control (usually by the way of men over women). should our society also have goverment agents running around training people tantra and kamasutra to avoid people ruining their lives by doing it wrong?Cute, but 1) there's no need to, and 2) there's really no "wrong" way to do sex and if your partner disses you for how you perform, its a good indication that they're not the right person for you emotionally. If you are devastated by their attitude about your sexual prowess, your problem is psychological and has *nothing* to do with sex.an open society that preaches sex is ok through massmedia, that sex is a tool, and is ok to use without instilling within those sexually hyperactive citizens is dangerous.Its "preached" because its Taboo!!!!! Make it no longer taboo and it won't be talked about as much. Don't teach it to be used as a weapon, moreover teach people that its evil to be used as a weapon, not that its inherently evil! Stop confusing the evil people do with sex! To go back to an issue both you and south are attached to, what you are both arguing is the same as some of your detractors: Religion causes wars and strife and is therefore evil. Are you going to agree with them? that though wasn't my question, its if all people in general can handle sex, sure some people can but as a whole, as a society would we be better off with total prohibition of sex from the mass media?Taboo! I keep saying it. You don't have any teenagers so you have no clue as to the power of Taboo. You'll see if you ever procreate....should sex ed in highschool be hands on?No, and most education in school is not hands on. Kids will get lots of experience outside of class no matter what you do. And as I said before, there's no "wrong" way to do sex (other than not being responsible enough to use a condom).should there be manditory classes and training courses dedicated to etiquette and relationships,YES! AND AGAIN WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH SEX? People suck at being nice to others, and high school is a rats nest of the nasty things that kids learn to do from adults, especially those who hypocritically go to church and then backstab, lie and cheat their way through life (read Dear Abby sometime!). And they wonder why their kids do bad stuff: look in the mirror! Now I'm glad that you don't appear to be at all hypocritical like so many of the more self-righteous out there, but you are being influenced by them. So question everything. Even me! Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkt Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 So question everything. Even me! Why? What you just said was absolutely spot-on correct.Cheers,BuffyCheers Buffy :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Your brevity is remarkable! I almost agree with your view with only two changes:"not for younger folks who abuse it" -> "not for folks who abuse it": age makes no difference and older folks screw up badly, mostly due to things that have nothing to do with sex (being a boor to your fellow man, has nothing to do with sex! honest!) I Agree drop "tell parents to spank" whoa! spank for violence? I'm no Dr. Spock, but violence works best in the heat of immediate removal from danger. "you were bad to be violent, so now several hours later I am going to whip your *** raw with my belt" is really bad and reinforces violence. You can cause a much more reinforcing message to your teenager by embarrasing them in front of their friends too, if your point is to cause *pain*. Other than the death penalty, I find it amusing that many who advocate physical and mental torture for our kids still wouldn't sanction it for convicted felons, because they realize it would probably not have its intended effect, and worse "makes us just as bad as the criminals".... There are those who think criminals should be tortured, but thats for another thread... Disagree. Spanking and other forms of punishment (With spanking the last option) is what give kids structure and disapline. Thats what I ment in my last post. but I thought i would try to make it a lil comedic. Just to reinforce cuz you both seem to be missing it: my main thesis is that the "bad" stuff people associate with sex really has very little to do with sex itself: its used as a tool by people who like or don't care about being mean to their fellow man. If people would just do unto others, sex would never be seen as a problem other than its side effects of pregnancy and STDs! My conclution (that we have reached)Sex=good when not abused. Cheers,Buffy Confused-as-to-what-we-are-drinking,Op5:hyper: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Stop staring at my boobs. ...sorry Religion causes wars and strife and is therefore evil. Are you going to agree with them? to which i'd reply: organized religion is an evil vestigial institution the state uses to create an artificial duality system of good and evil. that controlled conflict giving its people two masters where they can only serve one and jeer the other. and that i think organized religions should be banned outright, people can be moral without a priest brow bashing them on a weekly basis. that religion has no place in a healthy modern society. the people should only serve one master, the state. religion being that little voice in the back of your head forcing you to rethink the doctrine of the state. in either case one of your masters undermines the other because they are engineered to be mutually exclusive, each yelling that the other is impotent. i'd be wiping newsprint off of my nose for the next few hours but be strangely aroused. religion doesn't cause these things, neither does the state, its not the enherent conflict they foster in the hearts of the citizenry thats the problem, its the misuse of power, of those tools that causes these bad things, war strife famine, when things get out of control and the system breaks down, people not caring about either master and taking control for themselves, but using that power to oppress other people rather than in a constructive manner. but again buffy you get to the core of my issue. some people are irresponsable, it doesn't matter what small fraction of them get out of line, evil happens cloaked in a silken robe of good intention. and we can't tell who those irresponsible peeps are before the screw up. perhaps in the right conditions we are all irresponsible and thus cannot be trusted with power of any sort. these powerful tools at our disposal, are weilded by the greedy and wicked amoung us and cause harm to those who are responsable. who's to say who's capable and who's not? we haven't yet found a proper litmus and imo there never will be one. whether power is used to garner fame (as per my example), control a population, or simply to enthral the weak minded, may they be lucid or thoroughly entranced, these tools cause harm, they are a threat to society. we can't police them else the responsable people will revolt. nor can we prohibit them else everyone will revolt. you can't point out the boors and a*holes else they will feel threatened and will bristle and crush a few skulls for fun. let the people go, let them run free and do harm onto each other, eventually the bad apples will be rooted out. but, there are few bad apples and too many people who only sometimes lose control. if i'm to understand and grow i should change my opinion from "sex=bad" and "people can't handle power" to "people misusing sex as a tool for control=bad" and "sex=good". it the subtle ways in which sex is used in non-violent non-destructive ways i'm arguing is bad. those ways that bring the control and power under restraint, shucking that state and church spewed BS about people not being able to control themselves. and still be healthy constructive members of society. how paris hilton can be a pornstar AND guess girl. people using overt sex to gain power without hurting anyone in the process. they aren't harming anyone but they are saying that "sex gives me power" because i control it. o.0, d'oh! and who are the people doing it that most?! cameron, pamela, paris, madonna. empowered women... women... female stars. who have recaptured their sex and control it. even if its all a show the message is there, women can control there sex and not fall prey to the boors of the world. hmmm. if that message got accross many young women would see men for the animals they can be, remain apprehensive, and not fall prey to them as easily. if they went into the game knowing that their man potentially only wants one thing and one thing only and isn't willing to earn it, then she can "snap out of it" and move on. no harm no foul. like the microsoft commercial (of all media sources i could use as an example) the girl, just out of a failed relationship, says she isn't going to cry about it, she'll write a song about it, find solace in something productive and move on. i mean if what it takes is telling young people they will get their hearts run over but not to encase them in steel for the rest of their lives then the messgae gets accross. 1. sex can be fun, and is thus worth the effort2. use your head, and stay in control3. pull out before you get in too deep people can easily control themselves and this 'trend' is just the mallet falling on the heads of people so thoroughly indoctrinated in the self hate preached by state and church that they can't understand the power the weild. or do and take advantage of those who don't believe they have any power at all. 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EWright Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Every generation seems to think things are going to hell in a handbasket. I've actually said that I pity the current generation of kids because they're going to have a hard time to be more outrageous than those of us who grew up in the 60s, 70s and 80s. :) It always seems that all this stuff is totally overblown: the "out of control" Flappers of the 20s had kids and became the Ward and June Cleaver's of the 50's. Go figure. History has its cycles, but things do progress: I think its facinating that your post is all about sex. I for one am hopeful that these episodes of outrageousness will help the realization that sex is a *LOT* better for people than violence or drugs, something we have a major problem with: any kid could go in and buy a copy of Grand Theft Auto and spend hours stealing and killing, but oh, my, when they found out it had *sex* in it, well, we have to *ban* that!!! Get a box of condoms and go at it kids. Its way better than shooting each other or stealing stuff. Contrarily,Buffy :) ahhh.... wanna exchange phone numbers? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 LOL Seems like Buffy is developing a fan club. alxian is looking at your boobs and now Ewright wants your number. LOl Good luck with that one...:) Op5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 ;) ahhh.... wanna exchange phone numbers? ;)Be careful of what you wish for! I'm known by some in these parts as a, uh "cojones-buster"... ;) Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 LOL Seems like Buffy is developing a fan club. alxian is looking at your boobs and now Ewright wants your number. LOl Good luck with that one...;) Op5Oh for certain. They aren't the only ones with a crush, I've been trying to catch up with Buffy for the longest and finally I've reached enough post count to be right behind her. You might say that I've been wanting to get next to her for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've reached enough post count to be right behind her. QUOTE]Wow, now that's an interesting thought, I must say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I've reached enough post count to be right behind her. Wow, now that's an interesting thought, I must say.I don't let just *anybody* get behind me you know. Or next to me. :hihi: Infamous is one of the few... Just beware of the fact that if I disappear for a few weeks and you manage to pass me somehow, that you may have your doors blown off when I come back! A Chevy small block is a beautiful thing to behold... Vrrrrroooom,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I don't let just *anybody* get behind me you know. Or next to me. :hihi: Infamous is one of the few...Your a doll Buffy Just beware of the fact that if I disappear for a few weeks and you manage to pass me somehow, that you may have your doors blown off when I come back!I'm really lovin the position we are in at the present Buffy. A Chevy small block is a beautiful thing to behold... Oh yes, but you haven't seen my big bad Mopar hotrod. How's 9.83 @ 128 MPH................... Vrrrrroooom, Golly Geeez Buffy, I just love the way you do that!!!!!Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Oh yes, but you haven't seen my big bad Mopar hotrod. How's 9.83 @ 128 MPH................... Buffy I quess I'm just one of those machismo fools??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I quess I'm just one of those machismo fools???That you are. I will never forgive Chrysler for killing off the Plymouth brand and the Prowler.... I'm close to your "hot rod" but the Buffymobile is all stock...gimme a nitrous rig and watch out though! Meep, Meep!Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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