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#205 Deepwater6

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 10:27 AM

Well I think they need to kill off this residual white supremacist stuff. Trump's whole appeal is a coded message that he would undo everything that that nigger-in-the-White-House tried to do. Every single policy the is motivated by overturning his predecessors' handiwork. Thankfully, most of it has failed. The number of Trump's followers is quite shocking.  

I agree and that's the most concerning to me Ex. Although several things have been done and different attempts to defund or weaken ObamaCare it does not seem to be enough. There is the feeling they must erase any trace of Obama's presence.

 

That's part of the reason the health care debate was so amusing to me. There are elements in ObamaCare that are good, such as the preexisting conditions clause. Some Republicans grudgingly agreed, but even those who did admit that point insisted that those good elements be titled something other than ObamaCare remnants.

 

I think this, more than anything, killed any kind resolution or deal on health care. Also health care is just one of the policies they are trying to erase. They seem to have adopted a "get rid of anything associated with the Obama's era at all costs" attitude. And this is killing many possible compromises or deals on Capital Hill. I can't imagine the white supremacists have a big enough tail to wag the dog, but it sure as hell seems that way. 



#206 Buffy

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:25 PM

I think this, more than anything, killed any kind resolution or deal on health care. Also health care is just one of the policies they are trying to erase. They seem to have adopted a "get rid of anything associated with the Obama's era at all costs" attitude. And this is killing many possible compromises or deals on Capital Hill. I can't imagine the white supremacists have a big enough tail to wag the dog, but it sure as hell seems that way.


The irony of course is that Obama was one of the most conservative Democrats that we've had in a long time. Obamacare is virtually unchanged except for scale and lack of cost controls (a concession to the GOP!) from Romneycare in Massachusetts and is filled with things like the dreaded Individual Mandate that came from Newt Gingrich's counter to Hillarycare back in the 90's!

Basically Obama took the Overton Window and shoved it off the right edge of the cliff. What that's done is to give the Republicans no room to maneuver on policy because the Democrats took ownership of former "conservative" policies (also compare to deregulation under Clinton), and thus if they insist on "whatever Obama's for, we're against!" leaves them with either truly nutcase, unworkable policies, or a need to attack the Democrats from the *left*, which they will never do. The reason that they couldn't propose any "alternative" to Obamacare was that there isn't anything except a completely Laissez Faire healthcare market that has no price pressures or incentives to cover huge swaths of the population, and even the Republicans couldn't find the votes for that return to the Dark Ages.

 

To a great extent, this governed the tax bill too, but in that case the Republicans had straight up bribes coming from rich conservative campaign donors to give them some spine to pass truly Draconian changes that will devastate the budget and ultimately the economy.

 

If anyone has any interest in healthcare policy though, start a new thread. It's a fascinating topic! :cheer:

 

A good compromise, a good piece of legislation, is like a good sentence; or a good piece of music. Everybody can recognize it. They say, 'Huh. It works. It makes sense.' :phones:

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#207 exchemist

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

The irony of course is that Obama was one of the most conservative Democrats that we've had in a long time. Obamacare is virtually unchanged except for scale and lack of cost controls (a concession to the GOP!) from Romneycare in Massachusetts and is filled with things like the dreaded Individual Mandate that came from Newt Gingrich's counter to Hillarycare back in the 90's!

Basically Obama took the Overton Window and shoved it off the right edge of the cliff. What that's done is to give the Republicans no room to maneuver on policy because the Democrats took ownership of former "conservative" policies (also compare to deregulation under Clinton), and thus if they insist on "whatever Obama's for, we're against!" leaves them with either truly nutcase, unworkable policies, or a need to attack the Democrats from the *left*, which they will never do. The reason that they couldn't propose any "alternative" to Obamacare was that there isn't anything except a completely Laissez Faire healthcare market that has no price pressures or incentives to cover huge swaths of the population, and even the Republicans couldn't find the votes for that return to the Dark Ages.

 

To a great extent, this governed the tax bill too, but in that case the Republicans had straight up bribes coming from rich conservative campaign donors to give them some spine to pass truly Draconian changes that will devastate the budget and ultimately the economy.

 

If anyone has any interest in healthcare policy though, start a new thread. It's a fascinating topic! :cheer:

 

A good compromise, a good piece of legislation, is like a good sentence; or a good piece of music. Everybody can recognize it. They say, 'Huh. It works. It makes sense.' :phones:

Buffy

Interesting to read a US view on this.

 

As a European who has worked for a couple of years in the US, it struck me as appalling that there was no proper state health cover, so I saw the health reforms as the big success of Obama's presidency. I cheered to see the attempts to scupper it fail, as I felt sure that once the people had got this, they would never let it go. It may change in how it is administered, as no doubt there are plenty of things wrong with the Mk 1 version, but I feel sure the principle will be there to stay. If that proves to be Obama's only legacy, it will be a worthwhile one.



#208 Deepwater6

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:34 PM

The irony of course is that Obama was one of the most conservative Democrats that we've had in a long time. Obamacare is virtually unchanged except for scale and lack of cost controls (a concession to the GOP!) from Romneycare in Massachusetts and is filled with things like the dreaded Individual Mandate that came from Newt Gingrich's counter to Hillarycare back in the 90's!

Basically Obama took the Overton Window and shoved it off the right edge of the cliff. What that's done is to give the Republicans no room to maneuver on policy because the Democrats took ownership of former "conservative" policies (also compare to deregulation under Clinton), and thus if they insist on "whatever Obama's for, we're against!" leaves them with either truly nutcase, unworkable policies, or a need to attack the Democrats from the *left*, which they will never do. The reason that they couldn't propose any "alternative" to Obamacare was that there isn't anything except a completely Laissez Faire healthcare market that has no price pressures or incentives to cover huge swaths of the population, and even the Republicans couldn't find the votes for that return to the Dark Ages.

 

To a great extent, this governed the tax bill too, but in that case the Republicans had straight up bribes coming from rich conservative campaign donors to give them some spine to pass truly Draconian changes that will devastate the budget and ultimately the economy.

 

If anyone has any interest in healthcare policy though, start a new thread. It's a fascinating topic! :cheer:

 

A good compromise, a good piece of legislation, is like a good sentence; or a good piece of music. Everybody can recognize it. They say, 'Huh. It works. It makes sense.' :phones:

Buffy

Huh, the tax bill, this would also be another topic for it's own thread, but if I can make an observation on these side topics first. One of the largest problems Republicans had with ObamaCare was the damage it would inflict on the budget. This tax deduction will have enormous consequences on the budget, but that doesn't seem to bother many Trumpites. As you referred to in your post "straight up bribes" may have something to do with it.

 

As far as the Oprah element or any other famous people using their stardom to get votes is what I have a real problem with. I believe elections should be about making a concerned informative selection on who they think would be the best person to represent the greater good of the country. Somehow we seem to have devolved elections into a reality TV show and popularity contest. 

 

Below is a link to a brief BBC piece about what people around the world think of Trump.

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...as-us-president



#209 sanctus

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:43 AM

While I am sick as can be of our celebrity culture, Oprah Winfrey did build her fortune from a starting point of nothing, and she has been open with all of her struggles in life. 

Trump also says he started from nothing, just getting a tiny initial help from his father (1M)... :evil:



#210 Farming guy

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:06 PM

We used to refer to him as President Ray-Gun, because of the Star Wars programme. But you're right, he had a disarming charm and the gift of simplicity.

 

Seriously, it is an important part of democratic leadership to be able to communicate with the people you have been elected to serve. Clinton was good at that, too (Bill, I mean, not his wooden and shapeshifting wife). And Kennedy. And FDR.  Churchill was good at it too - in wartime only. And so in her odd way was Thatcher: even though people disliked her, they got her point.

 

But you have to be able to assemble and run a competent team as well.   

Don't you just miss the 1980s, and even the 90s?  It was a simpler time.  



#211 exchemist

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

Don't you just miss the 1980s, and even the 90s?  It was a simpler time.  

Yes in many ways I do, I must say. Though some things are better now, politics is definitely not.  



#212 Deepwater6

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:07 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2...ouse/index.html

 

I'm almost at a loss for words. "I don't know Donnie? if I was from a shithole country I know I would want to stay there." Notice in the article what countries on the TPS list that triggered this verbal stupidity. Like my question of the criteria to "make America great again" exactly what must a country do to be labeled a "shithole" country? Unbelievable!!!!!  



#213 Farming guy

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:25 PM

 even the Republicans couldn't find the votes for that return to the Dark Ages.

 

 

Buffy

What exactly was so dark about those ages?  You paid you local family doctor for the small or routine stuff, and only had insurance for the big stuff that needed hospitalization.  Most employed people could afford insurance, and the family doctor's office wasn't overwhelmed with insurance paperwork.  It was , in my opinion, the push to force insurance to cover "preventative"medicine that began the rise in healthcare costs, so that now the insurance for my family costs almost the equivalent of a mortgage, and that is a high deductible plan, and that is not including the employer's share of the cost!  It would cost far less for us to pay for our own routine costs and not have to have it billed through a third party.  We should at least be given the ability to opt out.



#214 exchemist

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:19 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2...ouse/index.html

 

I'm almost at a loss for words. "I don't know Donnie? if I was from a shithole country I know I would want to stay there." Notice in the article what countries on the TPS list that triggered this verbal stupidity. Like my question of the criteria to "make America great again" exactly what must a country do to be labeled a "shithole" country? Unbelievable!!!!!  

It's obvious, surely? Be a country whose inhabitants are mainly black, muslim or "hispanic" (a pseudo-racial term I detest).

 

Unlike those [Aryan?] blond people in Norway, for instance.

 

More racial dogwhistling - and decreasingly subtle dogwhistling as time goes on. 


Edited by exchemist, 12 January 2018 - 02:35 AM.