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How Could Tachyons Be Detected?


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#1 Farming guy

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 06:59 AM

Suppose you wanted to prove the existence of faster than light particles.  How would you detect them, and how would you prove that you detected them?



#2 DrKrettin

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

These are rather unfair questions, because you can have no idea what the properties of tachyons would be. So how could you devise a method for detecting them? If you did manage to detect them, presumably you could prove it by measuring their arrival at a target before you switched the emitter on.



#3 Farming guy

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:08 PM

These are rather unfair questions, because you can have no idea what the properties of tachyons would be. So how could you devise a method for detecting them? If you did manage to detect them, presumably you could prove it by measuring their arrival at a target before you switched the emitter on.

Well, sure, they are unfair questions, and that is the problem, isn't it?  How would you know that you were emitting tachyons and not merely absorbing ordinary particles that you had earlier detected?  

 

Sorry, I have no idea why these questions started bouncing around my mind today.  Too much coffee or not enough.



#4 Dubbelosix

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:00 AM

Suppose you wanted to prove the existence of faster than light particles.  How would you detect them, and how would you prove that you detected them?

 

 

You would look for Cherenkov radiation. Some particles actually behave like tachyons in certain mediums.


Edited by Dubbelosix, 11 August 2017 - 03:00 AM.


#5 Farming guy

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:10 PM

You would look for Cherenkov radiation. Some particles actually behave like tachyons in certain mediums.

Okay, so I had to look up Cherenkov radiation, and although quite interesting, I don't think that would quite do it because you need a medium, and behaving like tachyons is not the same thing as being tachyons.  The backwards time travel thing relies on the speed of light in a vacuum in the equations, and not the speed of light in a medium.

 

Again, any particle traveling backwards in time relative to us would just be a part of our past, and really hard to differentiate from stuff we see all the time.  Or should I have had one less cup of coffee today?



#6 DrKrettin

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:49 AM

Or should I have had one less cup of coffee today?

 

Nope, one fewer.  :nahnahbooboo:



#7 Farming guy

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:39 AM

Nope, one fewer.  :nahnahbooboo:

I stand corrected. :joker:



#8 Dubbelosix

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:05 PM

Okay, so I had to look up Cherenkov radiation, and although quite interesting, I don't think that would quite do it because you need a medium, and behaving like tachyons is not the same thing as being tachyons.  The backwards time travel thing relies on the speed of light in a vacuum in the equations, and not the speed of light in a medium.

 

Again, any particle traveling backwards in time relative to us would just be a part of our past, and really hard to differentiate from stuff we see all the time.  Or should I have had one less cup of coffee today?

 

 

Yes, but the point is you would look for Cherenkov radiation. What I explained was a special case which does indeed require a different kind of medium, but the physics is still the same. 



#9 Vmedvil

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:08 AM

Yes, but the point is you would look for Cherenkov radiation. What I explained was a special case which does indeed require a different kind of medium, but the physics is still the same. 

 

He is Right you would look for Cherenkov Radiation that is the only way you could ever hope to detect that particle to my knowledge. Tachyons would be emitting particles as they travel backward in time faster than the speed of light, that is a part of String Theory with tachyons. It would take the form of Gravitational Cherenkov Radiation either Gravitons or Higgs bosons depending on whether their energy is emitted as Mass or Gravitational waves, which it is unknown which it would be as they have never been found in this universe. I think personally the Cherenkov Radiation would be Higgs Bosons being that they do have Tachyonic states before condensation then W and Z bosons acquire masses. So, in this case, the medium would be the higgs field or in Gravitational waves it would be Time-Space in the form of Gravitons. My point being a nearby Tachyon would definitely set off some bells and whistles in the universe. So, they probably don't exist at least in this universe, but maybe they just instantly decay into higgs bosons being apart of the higgs mechanism never being noticed.

 

cherenkov_small.png


Edited by Vmedvil, 28 September 2017 - 04:06 AM.


#10 Farming guy

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:46 PM

He is Right you would look for Cherenkov Radiation that is the only way you could ever hope to detect that particle to my knowledge. Tachyons would be emitting particles as they travel backward in time faster than the speed of light, that is a part of String Theory with tachyons. It would take the form of Gravitational Cherenkov Radiation either Gravitons or Higgs bosons depending on whether their energy is emitted as Mass or Gravitational waves, which it is unknown which it would be as they have never been found in this universe. I think personally the Cherenkov Radiation would be Higgs Bosons being that they do have Tachyonic states before condensation then W and Z bosons acquire masses. So, in this case, the medium would be the higgs field or in Gravitational waves it would be Time-Space in the form of Gravitons. My point being a nearby Tachyon would definitely set off some bells and whistles in the universe. So, they probably don't exist at least in this universe, but maybe they just instantly decay into higgs bosons being apart of the higgs mechanism never being noticed.

 

cherenkov_small.png

Okay, that is the most convincing explanation I have seen so far, and a cool picture to boot!

 

Of course, we do not , as yet, have the means to detect such things.

 

Does that mean I am wrong?  Could not tachyons not look to us like ordinary particles from our frame of reference?  They would already be a part of our past, and therefore going around us unnoticed all along.

 

How wrong am I?



#11 Vmedvil

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:50 PM

Okay, that is the most convincing explanation I have seen so far, and a cool picture to boot!

 

Of course, we do not , as yet, have the means to detect such things.

 

Does that mean I am wrong?  Could not tachyons not look to us like ordinary particles from our frame of reference?  They would already be a part of our past, and therefore going around us unnoticed all along.

 

How wrong am I?

 

 

Well, during Higgs Tachyon Condensation, the Higgs bosons lose their tachyonic state by giving mass to W and Z bosons, If the universe holds to form it seems you would notice their effect on other particles.

 

Tachyon condensation is a process in particle physics in which a system can lower its energy by spontaneously producing particles. The end result is a "condensate" of particles that fills the volume of the system. The appearance of tachyons is a potentially serious problem for any theory; examples of tachyonic fields amenable to condensation are all cases of spontaneous symmetry breaking. In condensed matter physics a notable example is ferromagnetism; in particle physics the best known example is the Higgs mechanism in the standard model that breaks the electroweak symmetry.

 

so, by that definition, you would notice particles being produced as Symmetry breaks in the field being acted upon, that is if nature holds to its form. It would cause as the tachyon passes particle synthesis being its cherenkov radiation, as the particle loses energy, at some point, it would lose its tachyon state and phase shift back into the non-tachyon domain, most condensates are created from different particles shifting into Tachyon states. At low temperatures condensates have strange properties such as in Bose-Einstein Condensation which gives rise to Super-conductivity and Super-fluidity. Tachyonic Condensation is even a possible cause of the Big Bang, as I said "Very Noticeable", but you are right in our reference frame tachyons would be noticed as particles being emitted of some sort in a vacuum from seemingly nothing, the Cherenkov Radiation of the Tachyon, not much is known about tachyons past that. 

 

Here is a paper about Tachyon Condensation in the Big Bang. https://arxiv.org/abs/1211.3952

 

Schematic.png

I would also like to note that, the LHC probably generates Tachyons in Proton-Proton collisions giving you your particle synthesis via Tachyon Condensation and the higgs mechanism.

 

god-particle-higgs-boson-cern.jpg

 

As well as, Fermilab in Matter-Antimatter collisions generating High Energy particles from Tachyon Condensation, which quickly decay, which can be assumed by the presence of W+ and W- Bosons. The Top quark and Anti-Top Quark presumed to be in a tachyon state or via the Higgs Mechanism have interaction with tachyons.

 

grimm_collision_150c.gif


Edited by Vmedvil, 28 September 2017 - 10:22 PM.


#12 Farming guy

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 04:56 AM

Well, during Higgs Tachyon Condensation, the Higgs bosons lose their tachyonic state by giving mass to W and Z bosons, If the universe holds to form it seems you would notice their effect on other particles.

 

Tachyon condensation is a process in particle physics in which a system can lower its energy by spontaneously producing particles. The end result is a "condensate" of particles that fills the volume of the system. The appearance of tachyons is a potentially serious problem for any theory; examples of tachyonic fields amenable to condensation are all cases of spontaneous symmetry breaking. In condensed matter physics a notable example is ferromagnetism; in particle physics the best known example is the Higgs mechanism in the standard model that breaks the electroweak symmetry.

 

so, by that definition, you would notice particles being produced as Symmetry breaks in the field being acted upon, that is if nature holds to its form. It would cause as the tachyon passes particle synthesis being its cherenkov radiation, as the particle loses energy, at some point, it would lose its tachyon state and phase shift back into the non-tachyon domain, most condensates are created from different particles shifting into Tachyon states. At low temperatures condensates have strange properties such as in Bose-Einstein Condensation which gives rise to Super-conductivity and Super-fluidity. Tachyonic Condensation is even a possible cause of the Big Bang, as I said "Very Noticeable", but you are right in our reference frame tachyons would be noticed as particles being emitted of some sort in a vacuum from seemingly nothing, the Cherenkov Radiation of the Tachyon, not much is known about tachyons past that. 

 

Here is a paper about Tachyon Condensation in the Big Bang. https://arxiv.org/abs/1211.3952

 

Schematic.png

I would also like to note that, the LHC probably generates Tachyons in Proton-Proton collisions giving you your particle synthesis via Tachyon Condensation and the higgs mechanism.

 

god-particle-higgs-boson-cern.jpg

 

As well as, Fermilab in Matter-Antimatter collisions generating High Energy particles from Tachyon Condensation, which quickly decay, which can be assumed by the presence of W+ and W- Bosons. The Top quark and Anti-Top Quark presumed to be in a tachyon state or via the Higgs Mechanism have interaction with tachyons.

 

grimm_collision_150c.gif

Awesome!