deschoe Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) ok, but there is still the question, where does the energy come from, and now we have learned, that moving a cube in a horizontal direction means no physical work was done and for this you see a Pm in the video, because the cubes are only moved in a horizontal direction by hand. so as long as you dont name the source of energy, you have a violation of the CoE, because this is science, not faith. Edited February 27, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) after removing this topic to where the crows fly backwards because ocean breeze, farming guy and last not least exchemist claimed wired theories ( http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/29832-where-does-the-energy-come-from/page-7 ) the question is still unanswered so here the detailed explanation : Please let me know, why do you think this is compatible with energy conservation Edited February 28, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 ... and now we have learned, that moving a cube in a horizontal direction means no physical work was done and for this ...This isn’t correct. In physics, energy is defined (in terser definitions – longer ones are also common) as the potential to perform work. Work is defined as the force acting on a body times the displacement of that body in the direction of the force – symbolically: W = F s If a force is applied, which is must be if the cube has mass and has a change in velocity, or if experiences frictional force, which is the case if it is in a fluid (that is, not in vacuum), moving it in any direction performs physical work and requires energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanBreeze Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 This isn’t correct. In physics, energy is defined (in terser definitions – longer ones are also common) as the potential to perform work. Work is defined as the force acting on a body times the displacement of that body in the direction of the force – symbolically: W = F s If a force is applied, which is must be if the cube has mass and has a change in velocity, or if experiences frictional force, which is the case if it is in a fluid (that is, not in vacuum), moving it in any direction performs physical work and requires energy. I have explained this to him in detail, with an example. (see my post 104 on previous page) He is blind to anything that contradicts his crackpottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 nonsens doesnt get better if its repeated and repeated, here an example that shows, that horizontal movement doesnt mean physical work is done. ex, farming and breeze know exactly, why they refuse to make the calculation. if any reader herein wants to know whats going on, ask this three guys, why they refuse to make these calculation, on the other hand you can see that on the left picture you have a book motionless lying there, and one tentioned spring and one relaxed spring, after moving the book, in the picture on the right site you have a horizontal moved book that is motionless lying there and again one tentioned spring and one relaxed spring. still any questions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 thanks @MrD -> http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/29875-has-physical-work-to-be-done-to-move-a-mass-in-a-horizontal-direction/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) @ex, farming and ocean and after clearing, that horizontal movement means no physical work, again my question for you boys : Where does the Energy come from ? Edited March 1, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine farmer Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Did you not read the answer to which you refer above? I suggest that you read it again, and visit the link that Craig posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 ask Craig by PN, but please stop this borring posts. Craig told everybody inhere, that horizontal movment means no physical work !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzkpfw Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 ask Craig by PN, but please stop this borring posts. Craig told everybody inhere, that horizontal movment means no physical work !!! What do you think "1 J" means where he wrote: The work done when the spring extends, then, is 1 N x 1 m = 1 J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) ok, lets ask Craig ! http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/29875-has-physical-work-to-be-done-to-move-a-mass-in-a-horizontal-direction/?do=findComment&comment=345008 Edited March 2, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 ask Craig by PN, but please stop this borring posts. Craig told everybody inhere, that horizontal movment means no physical work !!!I did NOT say that horizontal movement means no physical work! When a force is applied and results in movement in the direction of the force, mechanical work is done. Deschoe, your claim that “horizontal movment means no physical work” is wrong. What do you think "1 J" means where he wrote:The work done when the spring extends, then, is 1 N x 1 m = 1 J. By “1 J” I meant “one Joule”. The Joule is a standard unit of energy or work. pzkpfw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 @D of course, the spring performs work, but the other spring "catches" this work. that wasnt the question. the question is ,do you have to perfom mechanical work ( which has a negative effect on the energy balance ) moving mass in horizontal direction according to the upper example. exactly, what does this moving ( acceleration + deceleration ) mean for the energy balance ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) @D if it isnt too much work, it would be nice, if you calculate for the guys inhere the energy balance to this mechanical equipment, because this is the actual object of contemplation : http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 , you see the cubes at first moved in horizontal direction ( red arrows ) and than they fall/rise. the horizontal movement is done by springs according to the book example. the falling/rising is caused by gravity and buoyancy. the cubes weight is 0,0135 g and they fall/rise 5mm. you can neglect friction you can calculate the rise/fall of the single cubes by impact energy or even by the difference between their potential energy levels before falling/rising and after. you have to consider as well the stacked on each other cubes when they move after docking of the rising/falling single cubes. I suggest you calculate the difference between their potential energy levels before descending/ascending and after or better you imagine, that there are little springs, which "catch" the energy of the falling/rising single cubes and the energy of the ascending/descending stacked cubes. I would calculate it by my own, but then they wouldnt accept it. if it is not too much for you if it is not too much for you if it is not too much for you Edited March 2, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschoe Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) obviously the cat has got the tongues of CraigD, exchemist, farming guy, pzkpfw and ocean breeze, so I want to determine for other readers, that moving a mass in a horizontal direction ( acceleration + deceleration of the mass ) means no physical work was done according to the correspondingly energy balance, as I claimed, and the claims of exchemist, farming guy, pzkpfw and ocean breeze means nothing else than spreading nonsens inhere and especially CraigD hasnt the courage to admit this. indeed this means, that the energy balance according to http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 says, this is a perpetual motion, as long as anybody is able to name the source of energy. here the complete explanation, for new readers Edited March 3, 2017 by deschoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
current Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Could not the energy come from the atmosphere ? The experiment is not a closed system . The soap and the magnets produce the same out come . How and why ? There seems to be a connection , somehow . Just saying . Edited March 16, 2017 by current Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluggo Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 nonsens doesnt get better if its repeated and repeated, here an example that shows, that horizontal movement doesnt mean physical work is done. ex, farming and breeze know exactly, why they refuse to make the calculation. if any reader herein wants to know whats going on, ask this three guys, why they refuse to make these calculation, on the other hand you can see that on the left picture you have a book motionless lying there, and one tentioned spring and one relaxed spring, after moving the book, in the picture on the right site you have a horizontal moved book that is motionless lying there and again one tentioned spring and one relaxed spring. still any questions ? The energy in the left spring is transferred to the right spring via the book.How does the energy originate in the left spring? It must come from outside the experimental setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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