Nasa Finally Publishes Controversial Fuel Free 'impossible Drive' Paper - But Still Can't Explain How It Works

[Trevor]

I don't see their problem, they're quite used to working with fictionalised reality and hokum, why should this particular problem cause them pause for thought?

 

Can't answer? No problem, sling some numbers across the blackboard and hope nobody looks too close.

 

For instance, make up some ludicrous suggestion that gravity waves work differently on microwave reflective surfaces, and manifest as an inverted 'information' stream on which a craft can be made to 'surf'.

 

I've kept the language simple deliberately, but part of the performance requires grammar skills to tax part of the audience, math skills to perplex the ego and experience of others - etc etc.

 

Just how quickly do you suppose the first real challenge will come? NASA illustrates this mindset perfectly, they are terrified of early challenges to their position, so take NO position at all, but how long does it take before 'someone' suggests they're just too stupid to understand the concept within which the reality lies.

 

Einstein was a past master of such intellectual acrobatics. He used the female primal attraction for intellect, and its perceived genetic advantages to lure the hard to get - with some success. How much less risky to the ego was one of his numeric puzzles, tossed out to linger, unchallenged - due to fear of being made to look a fool.

 

Black holes worked didn't they?

Edited February 6, 2018 by Trevor

[Trevor]

I think this story will turn out the same way those “faster than light” neutrinos. As you may recall, in that case the fiber optic cable carrying the timing signals was poorly connected, and the reflection in the signal caused a 73 nanosecond delay in the timing. In other words, the timing started 73 nanoseconds after the neutrinos started their journey from CERN with the improbable result they were arriving in Italy before they left Switzerland!

 

Now, one would think the scientists involved would instantly know their test setup was bungled, but instead they announced they found evidence that physics as we know it is fatally flawed. What a howler that was!

 

This EmDrive sounds similar. Without any propellant leaving the closed chamber, conservation of energy says no thrust force can result from em waves bouncing around inside the chamber. So, the scientists have proposed that “the tapered RF test article pushes off of quantum vacuum fluctuations, and the thruster generates a volumetric body force and moves in one direction while a wake is established in the quantum vacuum that moves in the other direction”.

 

I wonder how long they spent thinking that one up. Their time may well have been better spent looking for a loose cable!

 

CERN is a poor reference for such comparisons - they've repeated the mistake they made when powering up the LHC without first checking the connections with a meter, relying on the 'electricians' knowing what they were doing - as well as the damage which could result from fractional differences in resistance. 

 

First, define a pass/fail measurement, then find or design an apparatus capable of measuring these values - not rely on Joe the Electrician and his AVO 8!

[exchemist]

I don't see their problem, they're quite used to working with fictionalised reality and hokum, why should this particular problem cause them pause for thought?

 

Can't answer? No problem, sling some numbers across the blackboard and hope nobody looks too close.

 

For instance, make up some ludicrous suggestion that gravity waves work differently on microwave reflective surfaces, and manifest as an inverted 'information' stream on which a craft can be made to 'surf'.

 

I've kept the language simple deliberately, but part of the performance requires grammar skills to tax part of the audience, math skills to perplex the ego and experience of others - etc etc.

 

Just how quickly do you suppose the first real challenge will come? NASA illustrates this mindset perfectly, they are terrified of early challenges to their position, so take NO position at all, but how long does it take before 'someone' suggests they're just too stupid to understand the concept within which the reality lies.

 

Einstein was a past master of such intellectual acrobatics. He used the female primal attraction for intellect, and its perceived genetic advantages to lure the hard to get - with some success. How much less risky to the ego was one of his numeric puzzles, tossed out to linger, unchallenged - due to fear of being made to look a fool.

 

Black holes worked didn't they?

What is the purpose of this apparently directionless rant? Do you hate scientists or something? 

[Trevor]

What is the purpose of this apparently directionless rant? Do you hate scientists or something? 

 

I don't know how you extrapolate hate from that reply, I hate nobody and consider us all scientists on some level.

 

As Feynman pointed out, step 1 is to 'guess', but people are too frightened or shy to guess publicly. This may stifle any potential constructive exchange. 

[Vmedvil]

Ya, Trevor you must assume they didn't think about all the things you posted, they did, but that EM Drive does not work. How you have painted science is wildly inaccurate. These equations are to explain the exact way the events of nature are carried out. The key of the equation is the explain that element of nature exactly and not to confuse, as the Universe seems to use math to carry out these transactions. It is no trick just too complex for most people to understand the exact way the universe works nothing about EGO just getting the exact solution has its own rewards to truly understand the methods which the Universe uses to do an action under a situation.

 

 

 

You don't have to believe that keep the paranoid belief that they did it as a manipulation technique that is fine with me. I know the way the Universe works and despite that sometimes I hate that it works that way, I would rather know the truth that doesn't fit my viewpoints then a lie that does. The Universe doesn't care what you think, Einstein  was correct in how it worked that is all that matters in the eyes of science. TRUE OR FALSE model of the Universe, nothing else matters to scientists does it accurately describe the situations that happen.

 

 

I'll put it this way if Adolf Hitler made a correct model of the universe despite his moral imperfections it would have been part of science if it was correct!

 

 

 

 

If you reply to this with more your paranoid and arrogant bullshit, I will just laugh at the sheer stupidity of your rants like I have been for days.....

 

if you still don't believe what I have said..... Read this ----> https://www.bestpsychologydegrees.com/30-most-disturbing-human-experiments-in-history/

Edited February 8, 2018 by Vmedvil

[exchemist]

I don't know how you extrapolate hate from that reply, I hate nobody and consider us all scientists on some level.

 

As Feynman pointed out, step 1 is to 'guess', but people are too frightened or shy to guess publicly. This may stifle any potential constructive exchange. 

Well you certainly seem to be trying to disparage someone, or something, with your talk of people who are used to "fictionalised reality and hokum", NASA being "too stupid" to understand - and then finishing off with some irrelevant, but uncomplimentary, remarks about Einstein's sex life.

 

If you have a scientific point to make, it would help if you could make it, clearly and concisely, so that readers can respond.   

[Trevor]

Well you certainly seem to be trying to disparage someone, or something, with your talk of people who are used to "fictionalised reality and hokum", NASA being "too stupid" to understand - and then finishing off with some irrelevant, but uncomplimentary, remarks about Einstein's sex life.

 

If you have a scientific point to make, it would help if you could make it, clearly and concisely, so that readers can respond.   

 

I guess you don't get out much, but..................

[OceanBreeze]

I think this story will turn out the same way those “faster than light” neutrinos. As you may recall, in that case the fiber optic cable carrying the timing signals was poorly connected, and the reflection in the signal caused a 73 nanosecond delay in the timing. In other words, the timing started 73 nanoseconds after the neutrinos started their journey from CERN with the improbable result they were arriving in Italy before they left Switzerland!

 

Now, one would think the scientists involved would instantly know their test setup was bungled, but instead they announced they found evidence that physics as we know it is fatally flawed. What a howler that was!

 

This EmDrive sounds similar. Without any propellant leaving the closed chamber, conservation of energy says no thrust force can result from em waves bouncing around inside the chamber. So, the scientists have proposed that “the tapered RF test article pushes off of quantum vacuum fluctuations, and the thruster generates a volumetric body force and moves in one direction while a wake is established in the quantum vacuum that moves in the other direction”.

 

I wonder how long they spent thinking that one up. Their time may well have been better spent looking for a loose cable!

 

 

Hey, I just did one of those back-of-the envelope type calculations, to see if I could explain the thrust they are seeing for this so-called EmDrive.

I am using the fact that the Tesla has the dimensions N*s / C*m where N is Newton, s second,

C coulomb, m meter.

 

Force = I L T, where I is current in coulombs/second and L is length in meters. T is Tesla as defined above.

 

You can check to see that the result in Newtons is dimensionally correct as all units cancel except Newton.

 

For the value of I, I note that they are driving a loop antenna with 1 Kw of power ( maybe they use more Power than that ) but they are getting a resulting force of ~ 0.001 N / 1KW. So, I will use 1 KW going into a 50 Ohm loop antenna. So, I = ( P/R )^1/2 = ~ 5 Amps approximate value.

 

For L, I guesstimate the loop antenna and feed in as 2 meters. It could be more or less.

 

For T, I am going to use an upper value of the earth’s magnetic field B on the surface of ~ 65 uT.

 

So, Force in Newtons = 5 C/s * 2 m * 65 E-6 N*s / C*m = 0.00065 N

 

That is 65% of the thrust force they measured!

 

I think that is significant. What I think happens when they energize this thing it deflects like a compass needle. If it is capable of measuring forces on the order of 0.001 N, it must not take much too Force to make it deflect. The earths magnetic field is enough, with the power and current they are using.

 

What do you all think? Should we tell them? :nea: 

 

 

Well, it looks like I called that one right!

 

Tajmar's results are exactly what you'd expect for the systematic error explanation: with a properly shielded apparatus, with no additional electromagnetic fields induced by the wires, there is no observed thrust at any power. They conclude that these induced fields by the electrical wires, visibly present in the other setups, are the likely culprit for the observed, unexplained thrust:

Our results show that the magnetic interaction from not sufficiently shielded cables or thrusters are a major factor that needs to be taken into account for proper µN thrust measurements for these type of devices.

[Vmedvil2]

Ya, the EM Drive was a waste of money any 1st year physics student could have told you that it would have never worked and was a waste of time.

[OceanBreeze]

Ya, the EM Drive was a waste of money any 1st year physics student could have told you that it would have never worked and was a waste of time.

 

Ya dude, that's why NASA doesn't employ any 1st year physics students, huh?

[Vmedvil2]

Ya dude, that's why NASA doesn't employ any 1st year physics students, huh?

 

 

They must not employ anyone with over a 1st year physics student education apparently to ever think the EM drive would work.