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The Underlying Problem With Some Science Is Interpretation.

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#1 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:00 PM

Only if we interpret certain things in a certain way does some science work.


If we were to Interpret the information differently then we get rather different results.

In example time dilation, we have to interpret time being that of the Caesium atom, but in reality we all know that the Caesium atom is not time but merely a device with a rate that we use to measure time.

#2 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:42 PM

It doesn't make any difference how you measure time with regards to time dilation. All clocks (clocks as in any accurate measure of time) are affected in the same way. Of an atom isn't time, but it can be used to measure it.

 

GPS satellites are an example of another type of clock that's accurate enough to measure time dilation around the Earth.



#3 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:45 PM

[quote name="A-wal" post="341830" timestamp="1475628141"]It doesn't make any difference how you measure time with regards to time dilation. All clocks (clocks as in any accurate measure of time) are affected in the same way. Of an atom isn't time, but it can be used to measure it.
 
GPS satellites are an example of another type of clock that's accurate enough to measure time dilation around the Earth.[/quote[quote name="A-wal" post="341830" timestamp="1475628141"]It doesn't make any difference how you measure time with regards to time dilation. All clocks (clocks as in any accurate measure of time) are affected in the same way. Of an atom isn't time, but it can be used to measure it.
 
GPS satellites are an example of another type of clock that's accurate enough to measure time dilation around the [quote name="A-wal" post="341830" timestamp="1475628141"]It doesn't make any difference how you measure time with regards to time dilation. All clocks (clocks as in any accurate measure of time) are affected in the same way. Of an atom isn't time, but it can be used to measure it.
 
GPS satellites are an example of another type of clock that's accurate enough to measure time dilation around the Earth.[/quote]clocks are not time, why are you interpreting a clock is time?

#4 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:52 PM

Clocks are a measurement of time, that's what they're for. It includes all physical processes but it's easier to measure with some more than others, these are called clocks.



#5 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 06:59 PM

Clocks are a measurement of time, that's what they're for. It includes all physical processes but it's easier to measure with some more than others, these are called clocks.

Clocks are a measurement of time, so what is time , what is this thing you are measuring?

It is certainly not like distance , and in no way does your meassuring devices of time ever affect the thing you are trying to measure, only if we interpret a clock is time does time dilation work, however we all know a clock is not time and not even related to time other than for a increment quantity.

#6 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:08 PM

That makes no sense! A clock is used to measure time, in the same way that rulers are used to measure length in the spatial dimensions. It works EXACTLY like measuring distance.

 

Of course the measuring devices don't affect time, they measure it, by definition. All physical process are (including some that can handily be used as measuring devices for time) are affect by time dilation in the exact same way and if all physical processes are affected by time dilation in the same way then that's just another way of saying that the rate of time has changed.

 

Please stop thinking you know better every time you come across something that you can't understand because you're always wrong!


Edited by A-wal, 04 October 2016 - 07:08 PM.


#7 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:15 PM

That makes no sense! A clock is used to measure time, in the same way that rulers are used to measure length in the spatial dimensions. It works EXACTLY like measuring distance.
 
Of course the measuring devices don't affect time, they measure it, by definition. All physical process are (including some that can handily be used as measuring devices for time) are affect by time dilation in the exact same way and if all physical processes are affected by time dilation in the same way then that's just another way of saying that the rate of time has changed.
 
Please stop thinking you know better every time you come across something that you can't understand because you're always wrong!

no, you are wrong and your interpretations are false. Measuring time is nothing like measuring distance, distance is physical where time has no physical properties except the physical properties science dogma gives it. I ask you again why you perceive a clock is time and interpret a slowing of rate of the clock in any way affects the thing that has no physicality you call time? You would like us to belive that time flows at different rates because the clock changes it's measurements, but in reality you are not measuring anything, the clock variance has nothing to do with time unless you wrongly
Interpret a clock is time.

#8 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:18 PM

You are so clueless.

 

Time is the rate at which physical process occur. If physical processes slow down (just another way of saying that clocks slow down) then by definition time is moving more slowly.



#9 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:23 PM

You are so clueless.

Time is the rate at which physical process occur. If physical processes slow down (just another way of saying that clocks slow down) then by definition time is moving more slowly.

gibberish , if everything was frozen in the universe time does not stop , time does not have a rate, the next moment of now is adjoined to now , no gaps or spaces or rate. You are quite clearly under false illusions by interpretation.

You cant define a rate of time . Time flows slowly or fast, you could never actually know the correct rate although I believe the rate is infinitely fast,


In simple terms if you said time was running slow because the clock said so, that is based on your defining of the rate of time . However if by poor logic and poor interpretation we was to compare two rates of two clocks, yes one clock runs slower but not compared to time which the rate is unknown.

Edited by xyz, 04 October 2016 - 07:33 PM.


#10 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:32 PM

What you're describing can have no physical definition because it's totally independent of everything else and therefore a meaningless concept. Something that has no measurable affect on reality is something that either exists outside of reality (only in your head) or outside of anything that we're are aware of and so is not science, and it certainly isn't what physics refers to as 'time'.

 

Time is dependent on physical processes and can therefore be measured by those processes (a clock).



#11 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:38 PM

What you're describing can have no physical definition because it's totally independent of everything else and therefore a meaningless concept. Something that has no measurable affect on reality is something that either exists outside of reality (only in your head) or outside of anything that we're are aware of and so is not science, and it certainly isn't what physics refers to as 'time'.
 
Time is dependent on physical processes and can therefore be measured by those processes (a clock).

no , synchronisation is relative to your arbitrary clocks, time is a timeless quantity, what I am talking about is correct interpretation and the correct value and speed of time .


A time dilation is arbitrary like the clOck. time can not slow down or be measured in advance, the rate of time is infinite because we can measure time at any rate,

#12 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:49 PM

time is a timeless quantity,

That's a self contradiction. How can time be timeless quantity? A quantity of time is how time is defined.

 

what I am talking about is correct interpretation and the correct value and speed of time .

No it isn't. What you're talking about is another thing entirely, a kind of master clock that nothing that we're aware of can be affected by. I suppose it's possible with extra dimensions but that's not what we perceive as time and what clocks measure.

 

A time dilation is arbitrary like the clOck. time can not slow down or be measured in advance, the rate of time is infinite because we can measure time at any rate,

Time dilation is NOT arbitrary! It happens under very well defined conditions and is only arbitrary in the sense that it depends on the frame of reference of the observer.

 

The rate of time IS arbitrary in itself, it can only be measured by comparison (relative to other objects) and different objects can and do experience the same physical processes occurring at different rates. This is time dilation.


Edited by A-wal, 04 October 2016 - 07:53 PM.


#13 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 07:56 PM

That's a self contradiction. How time be timeless quantity? A quantity of time is how time is defined.


No it isn't. What you're talking about is another thing entirely, a kind of master clock that nothing that we're aware of can be affected by. I suppose it's possible with extra dimensions but that's not what we perceive as time and what clocks measure.


Time dilation is NOT arbitrary! It happens under very well defined conditions and is only arbitrary in the sense that it depends on the frame of reference of the observer.

The rate of time IS arbitrary in itself, it can only be measured by comparison (relative to other objects) and different objects can and do experience the same physical processes occurring at different rates. This is time dilation.

your interpretation of the truth is rather ludicrous .


Let me prove something to you ,


Clock A running at rate 1


Clock B running at rate 2 half the rate of clock A


We use both clocks to measure a car travelling at 100mph .


How far has the car travelled in one hour ?

Edited by xyz, 04 October 2016 - 07:56 PM.


#14 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:02 PM

I'm not the one having trouble interpreting truth here nincompoop.

 

You contradicted yourself again. If clock B is running at half the rate of clock A then the car is moving twice as fast according to clock B than it according to clock A because it's covering the same distance in half the time. If both of those clocks are in the same frame of reference (including the same strength gravitational field) then at least one of them is wrong.

 

How far has the car travelled in one hour ?

An hour on which clock? You just said they were running at different rates.



#15 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:05 PM

I'm not the one having trouble interpreting truth here nincompoop.

You contradicted yourself again. If clock B is running at half the rate of clock A then the car is moving twice as fast according to clock B than it according to clock A because it's covering the same distance in half the time. If both of those clocks are in the same frame of reference (including the same strength gravitational field) then at least one of them is wrong.


An hour on which clock? You just said they were running at different rates.

the clocks are running at different rates, the velocity of the car is constant, try it with c if you like from the sun, the light does not slow down to hLf the speed because the clock is half the rate. The whole point my friend, think about that

Edited by xyz, 04 October 2016 - 08:06 PM.


#16 xyz

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:14 PM

In short if the Caesium atom travelled to the sun , at any speed, the time it arrives will be what the earth clock says, the atom does not travel slower when the rate of the Caesium slows.if time slowed it would take longer to get there . Velocity is constant therefore so is time.

Edited by xyz, 04 October 2016 - 08:17 PM.


#17 A-wal

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 08:25 PM

If the clocks are running at different rates then the car can't possibly be moving at the same velocity relative to both of them because velocity is a measurement of distance over time.

 

If the clocks were in motion relative to each other and both measuring the car moving at the same velocity (as happens with light) then they couldn't possibly be running at the same rate (time dilation).

 

This will probably confuse the hell out out of you so you'll reject it on the basis that you can't face the prospect of not being capable of understanding it but...

 

If you were to put one clock inside the car and leave the other clock beside the road (assuming now that both clocks are accurate) then the time it would take for the car to travel any distance would be different on the two clocks, less time will have passed on the clock in the car. You'd need a very accurate clock to measure the difference because 100mph is so slow compared to the speed of light but if the car were moving at say half the speed of light then any clock would do.