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Astrology - Fact Or Fiction


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#52 CraigD

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 06:27 AM

Astrology is about the interaction of our solar system forces on our planet and therefore then on ourselves .

There’s a neat exercise you can do to show yourself that the idea that the force exerted by heavenly bodies is too small to support the claim that their position during our conception, gestation, birth and life significantly influences our character. It’s one I was shown as a child in school, and I wish every child was shown.

Calculate the relative gravitational force on yourself caused by:
the Moon;
the Sun;
the planets;
another person standing nearby.

I encourage you to do this, current. Learning by doing is, in my experience, stronger than being told what is and isn’t true, or arguing about it with others. If you need help, let us know – I’m not sure how good you science education is.

#53 DrKrettin

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 07:03 AM

There’s a neat exercise you can do to show yourself that the idea that the force exerted by heavenly bodies is too small to support the claim that their position during our conception, gestation, birth and life significantly influences our character. It’s one I was shown as a child in school, and I wish every child was shown.

Calculate the relative gravitational force on yourself caused by:
the Moon;
the Sun;
the planets;
another person standing nearby.

I encourage you to do this, current. Learning by doing is, in my experience, stronger than being told what is and isn’t true, or arguing about it with others. If you need help, let us know – I’m not sure how good you science education is.

 

 

An excellent idea, and of course gives very convincing results. The peculiar effect is has though is that astrologers then change tack and claim that the forces are in fact not gravitational, but some other force field which has not yet been identified. The proof that this field exists is that they have an effect on us as is clearly demonstrated by astrology. There is not much you can do in the face of such stupidity, but there is plenty of it when people just want to believe and have invested too much of their lives in it to review its plausibility.

 

(I have used this argument against astrologers myself, and have had exactly this response)


Edited by DrKrettin, 29 March 2017 - 07:05 AM.


#54 spartan45

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:29 AM

“Natural astrology”, such as medical astrology and meteorological astrology does seem to have observable tendencies:

1. Check family trees. Star signs are often heredity, because, perhaps sub consciously, we try to make carbon copies of ourselves.

2. Each sign seems to have different personality and physical traits: Aries-controls by leadership, Taurus-easy to understand, Gemini-good sales people, great sense of humour, in depth investigations quickly bore, quick minds, enjoys debate and likely to out-wit opposition, but can be too outspoken for some, Cancer-controls by religion/belief, calm, with a calming influence, Leo-popular with people. Being Leo the lion they often have a good mane of hair, Virgo-good teachers, but perfectionists, good surgeons. They appreciate art and culture, Libra-controls by politics, easy going, amiable, can weigh up situations/odds, making good politicians, sales people and gamblers, Scorpio-investigative, mysterious, Sagittarius-good explorers, adventurers, good at quizzes and flirting. Female’s’ appearance may be tomboyish. Fire or red coloured hair is not unusual with Sagittarius, Capricorn-controls by money/assets. They are good at achieving recognition because has a strong sense of duty and achievement, Sea-goat; determined and stubborn, Aquarius-Unique and individualistic, thinks outside the box, artistic, some even eccentric, not one of the herd, thinks with the mind, Pisces-imaginative, empathic, good poets, writers and artists.

3. Star sign can have an influence on health aspects because of personality traits. For example, a Capricorn often gets stressed and so generates adrenalin. This thins the blood and helps prevent clogging of arteries, so reducing the possibility of heart attack. The downside is stomach problems. Each sign has different health characteristics.

4. Newspaper star sign columns are drivel, but popular because they hone in on the various traits, making it interesting reading. For example: Leo “Today you are going to be popular.” This would interest a Leo (loves popularity), and things of interest always makes you want to read more. This helps sell newspapers.

5. Many marriages are arranged in India and astrology often plays a part, as it may for people in non-arranged marriages and in other countries around the world. Aries, Leo, Sagittarius are fire signs, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces are water signs, Libra, Aquarius, Gemini are air signs, Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo are earth signs.

 

Same elements are generally good for each other, a Gemini + Gemini is a particularly good same element match.

Fire & Air: Good, because air fans the flames, while the fire excites the air.

Earth & Water: Good, because Earth holds water, while water nourishes Earth.

Air & Water: Bad, because wind blows a storm, while water fogs the air.  

Fire & Earth: Bad, because fire scorches the earth, while earth smothers the fire.

Air & Earth: Bad, because dust and dirt contaminates the air, while air blows away the soil creating dust bowls.

Fire & Water: Bad, because fire vaporises water, while water dowses fire.

6. Stock market forecasting. During high sun spot activity the effect seems to encourage optimism, so markets rise, low sunspot activity seems to cause pessimism, so markets fall.

The various world financial falls are approximately in line with the low sun spot activity cycle of 10.9years

https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activity/solar-cycle

  

19 Oct 1987 Black Monday crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)

July 1997 Asian financial crisis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Asian_financial_crisis

August 2007 Start of 2008 credit crunch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7521250.stm
October 2018 Expected low sunspot activity start point. Unfortunately there are many variables and other factors to be taken into account for the knowledge to be useful.

7. Nature often shows the effect on life of time of year and heavenly body position. Example: One of the most spectacular events to occur on the Great Barrier Reef is the annual synchronised spawning of corals.

This mass reproduction only happens once a year. It involves colonies and species of coral polyps simultaneously releasing tiny egg and sperm bundles into the water.

The mass spawning on inshore reefs usually start one to six nights after the first full moon in October, whereas those in outer reefs spawn during November or December. The day length, tide height and salinity levels also appear to be factors in deciding when the event will happen.

The phenomenon — which only happens at night — resembles an underwater snowstorm. But rather than being all white, there are also clouds of red, yellow and orange.

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-the-reef/corals/coral-reproduction



#55 DrKrettin

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 05:11 AM

Totally unsubstantiated rubbish



#56 spartan45

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:46 AM

Totally unsubstantiated rubbish

A nice article about scientific prowess and fascination with astrology co-existing. http://www.npr.org/s...rology-co-exist



#57 DrKrettin

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:58 AM

A nice article about scientific prowess and fascination with astrology co-existing. http://www.npr.org/s...rology-co-exist

 

Yes, it's quite unbelievable how some well-educated people can also lack any kind of critical thinking. And there is a lot of money in conning a huge population that believe this crap.



#58 OceanBreeze

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 02:26 AM

A nice article about scientific prowess and fascination with astrology co-existing. http://www.npr.org/s...rology-co-exist

 

 

 

That actually is a decent, balanced article but if you are implying that “co-existing” means astrology is on a level footing with science, you didn’t understand what the author was saying. If a person is sensible enough to use astrology for entertainment, and not let it rule one’s life or make major decisions based on it, then astrology can be a harmless hobby. Unfortunately, as the article also points out, there are many superstitious and ignorant people who take it seriously and become enslaved by it, becoming easy prey for dishonest astrologers who extort large sums of money for their worthless astrological readings. Overall the practice does more harm than good, but as long as there are gullible people being born every minute, it isn’t going away. (In India, 34 are born and 10 die every minute; fertile ground for astrologers)



#59 quickquestion

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:28 PM

If you get in a relationship with someone who believes horoscopes, this is a red-flag and don't expect them to behave in a rational, coherent, or unbiased and fair manner concerning you.

 



#60 spartan45

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:07 PM

There’s a neat exercise you can do to show yourself that the idea that the force exerted by heavenly bodies is too small to support the claim that their position during our conception, gestation, birth and life significantly influences our character. It’s one I was shown as a child in school, and I wish every child was shown.

Calculate the relative gravitational force on yourself caused by:
the Moon;
the Sun;
the planets;
another person standing nearby.

I encourage you to do this, current. Learning by doing is, in my experience, stronger than being told what is and isn’t true, or arguing about it with others. If you need help, let us know – I’m not sure how good you science education is.

The relative gravitational force on yourself caused by;
the Moon; (at mean distance from Earth) 3.32 x 10-5 m/s  
the Sun; (at mean distance from Earth) 5.93  x 10-3 m/s  
the planets; (at closest distance from Earth) Mercury 3.70 x 10-9 m/s, Venus 2.23 x 10-7 m/s, Mars 1.44 x 10-8 m/s, Jupiter 3.52 x 10-7 m/s, Saturn 2.63 x 10-8 m/s, Neptune 3.70 x 10-10 m/s another person standing nearby; A person 100kg, standing 1 meter away from  a particle exerts a gravitational force of 6.67 x 10-9 m/s.

From the above it can be seen that the Sun’s gravitational force on a particle on Earth is about 890,000 times greater, (the Moon about 5,000 times greater), than that of a 100kg person at 1 meter from the particle on Earth. Added to this is the Sun and Moon tidal bulge which also has a gravitational influence.

It must be said that I cannot think why the gravitational force of the heavenly bodies would influence human characteristics. 



#61 spartan45

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

Here is an interesting article from the Telegraph dated 7th May 2017 stating ‘One of the more surprising events to exert an apparent influence on markets is the solar eclipse’ It follows on nicely after my 8th April 'natural astrology' post on this page (item 6; stock market forecasting).  http://www.telegraph...ent-strategies/  



#62 exchemist

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 01:22 AM

Here is an interesting article from the Telegraph dated 7th May 2017 stating ‘One of the more surprising events to exert an apparent influence on markets is the solar eclipse’ It follows on nicely after my 8th April 'natural astrology' post on this page (item 6; stock market forecasting).  http://www.telegraph...ent-strategies/  

Yes this was quite funny. 

 

For those that can't be bothered to read the article, the key passage is this: 

 

"As the 15 examples go back to 1900, the results could be skewed by superstition and fear not present in the modern world. Additionally, as the average profits on offer are so small, the benefit could be wiped out by the cost of trading. 

 

Hahaha. :)



#63 spartan45

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

Are same name star signs with the exception of Gemini rarely found in marriage/partnerships? The reasoning behind my question is because as mentioned in an earlier post I think same elements (fire + fire, water + water, air + air, earth + earth) are generally good for each other, but only a Gemini + Gemini is a particularly good same sign match because of their twin sided nature and most other same sign matches may be found too similar/boring.

The probability of same star signs occurring is one in twelve, but because a good Gemini + Gemini match, having a probably of one in a hundred and forty four, must be removed, the probability of poor matching star signs is 1/12 – (1/12 x 1/12) = 11/144 = 0.0763888, or about one in thirteen. It would be interesting to see if statistics could show that due to bias, the actual probability a good Gemini/Gemini match is higher, say one in 100, or poor matching star signs is lower, say about one in twenty matches. Unfortunately I don’t have the data. 



#64 exchemist

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:26 AM

Are same name star signs with the exception of Gemini rarely found in marriage/partnerships? The reasoning behind my question is because as mentioned in an earlier post I think same elements (fire + fire, water + water, air + air, earth + earth) are generally good for each other, but only a Gemini + Gemini is a particularly good same sign match because of their twin sided nature and most other same sign matches may be found too similar/boring.

The probability of same star signs occurring is one in twelve, but because a good Gemini + Gemini match, having a probably of one in a hundred and forty four, must be removed, the probability of poor matching star signs is 1/12 – (1/12 x 1/12) = 11/144 = 0.0763888, or about one in thirteen. It would be interesting to see if statistics could show that due to bias, the actual probability a good Gemini/Gemini match is higher, say one in 100, or poor matching star signs is lower, say about one in twenty matches. Unfortunately I don’t have the data. 

You are asking the wrong people, I suspect. 

 

If you want to explore this you will probably have to go digging for evidence in other places. There might be data from marriage registries that you could use. Though how you could tell anything about the quality of the marriages I simply do not know - unless you were to attempt to correlate with marriage failures, as measured by divorces. I suppose someone may have already done this and published it on the internet somewhere.



#65 current

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 07:04 PM


Hmm...it seems that all objects in our solar system influences all objects in our solar system .