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It's Self-Evident That It's Absurd That The Brain Can Give Rise To Thoughts And Feelings


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#1 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 04:09 AM

Moderation note: the first 20 posts from this thread were moved from The Soul because they were off-topic.

It's self-evident. The brain is a lump of flesh and it's completely absurd to think that any mechanical device can give rise to thoughts and feelings. Soul is just another word for consciousness and it can't be produced by lump of flesh, obviously.

#2 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:16 AM

It's self-evident. The brain is a lump of flesh and it's completely absurd to think that any mechanical device can give rise to thoughts and feelings. Soul is just another word for consciousness and it can't be produced by lump of flesh, obviously.

 

 

Where exactly did anyone mention a mechanical device? Consciousness cannot be produced by a brain? Not obvious, please elaborate,



#3 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:29 AM

Completely obvious, so obvious that to think otherwise is literally insanity. It can't think, it can't feel, it can't create a subjective experience of self-awareness because it's just a sodding lump of organic mush!

 

The brain is a mechanical device.



#4 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:15 AM

Completely obvious, so obvious that to think otherwise is literally insanity. It can't think, it can't feel, it can't create a subjective experience of self-awareness because it's just a sodding lump of organic mush!

 

The brain is a mechanical device.

 

 

Please back up your assertions, evidence please!



#5 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 11:15 AM

It's self-evident! The brain is a mechanical device, how could it not be?

 

How could something that is nothing more than organic chemistry possibly give rise to awareness? I wasn't exaggerating when I said it's insane to think it can.

 

It's one of those things that's so ingrained that people don't question it. You need to take a step back to see just how absurd it really is.



#6 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 11:32 AM

It's self-evident! The brain is a mechanical device, how could it not be?

 

How could something that is nothing more than organic chemistry possibly give rise to awareness? I wasn't exaggerating when I said it's insane to think it can.

 

It's one of those things that's so ingrained that people don't question it. You need to take a step back to see just how absurd it really is.

 

You need to take a step and back and read the rules you agreed to when you joined Hypography, I agree that the brain can be thought of as mechanical device, but the idea that consciousness cannot originate in the brain needs to be supported by something other than your own assertions. 

 

So far all you have done is commit a logical fallacy called argument from ignorance...  


Edited by Moontanman, 21 February 2016 - 11:33 AM.


#7 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 11:47 AM

Nope, sorry but you've got it completely backwards. Claiming that a mechanical device is capable of giving rise to awareness is not only so absurd that it crosses the line of sane thinking, it has no evidence to support it! It's a hell of a claim, beyond the assertion that a god exists. If you want to believe it it's up to you but if you want to claim it as factual then YOU need to provide supporting evidence because it's YOU that's making the claim!

 

I could claim that a TV is a magical window across time and space using your logic and it would be no less silly.


Edited by A-wal, 21 February 2016 - 11:48 AM.


#8 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 11:55 AM

Nope, sorry but you've got it completely backwards. Claiming that a mechanical device is capable of giving rise to awareness is not only so absurd that it crosses the line of sane thinking, it has no evidence to support it! It's a hell of a claim, beyond the assertion that a god exists. If you want to believe it it's up to you but if you want to claim it as factual then YOU need to provide supporting evidence because it's YOU that's making the claim!

 

I could claim that a TV is a magical window across time and space using your logic and it would be no less silly.

 

 

I am making no claim at all, I am asking you for evidence of your assertions.



#9 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:04 PM

Of course you're making a claim, by asking me to provide evidence of a negative. You can't prove a negative. I can't prove that unicorns don't exist.

 

The people who make claims are the ones that need to provide the evidence. I can claim that a brain can't give rise to awareness without breaking the site rules. If anyone wants to claim that it can then they need to support this claim or they're the ones in violation of the rules!



#10 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:11 PM

Of course you're making a claim, by asking me to provide evidence of a negative. You can't prove a negative. I can't prove that unicorns don't exist.

 

The people who make claims are the ones that need to provide the evidence. I can claim that a brain can't give rise to awareness without breaking the site rules. If anyone wants to claim that it can then they need to support this claim or they're the ones in violation of the rules!

 

Again, I am not making a claim, I am asking you to back up yours. Actually no you cannot make that claim with out backing it up. I am not asking you to prove anything, I want to see your evidence that backs up your claim.

 

I can give evidence of why a unicorn is highly unlikely, in science nothing is absolutely proven, science simply follows where the evidence goes. 

 

Please give some evidence of why you think the brain is not the source of consciousness. Your personal opinion is meaningless, empty assertions can be dismissed with no evidence. 

 

I cannot assess the claim you are making with out evidence.



#11 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:23 PM

Again, I'm not the one making the claim, YOU ARE!

 

Again, I need to provide no evidence that your claim is false.

 

Again, if YOU want to claim that the brain CAN give rise to self-awareness then YOU need to provide evidence to support that claim.

 

This is how it works. It's not the people who doubt the claims the a required to support their doubts. The onus is on the people who make a specific claim (in this case that a brain has the capacity to produce consciousness) to support their assertions. I don't have to support my doubts about this hypothesis, those that claim it to be true are the ones that are required to provide evidence!

 

Please provide some evidence to support your claim that the brain is the source of consciousness.



#12 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:30 PM

Again, I'm not the one making the claim, YOU ARE!

 

Again, I need to provide no evidence that your claim is false.

 

Again, if YOU want to claim that the brain CAN give rise to self-awareness then YOU need to provide evidence to support that claim.

 

This is how it works. It's not the people who doubt the claims the a required to support their doubts. The onus is on the people who make a specific claim (in this case that a brain has the capacity to produce consciousness) to support their assertions. I don't have to support my doubts about this hypothesis, those that claim it to be true are the ones that are required to provide evidence!

 

Please provide some evidence to support your claim that the brain is the source of consciousness.

 

 

I never claimed the brain is the source of consciousness, I am simply asking why you think it is not. BTW, I suggest you read the rules, you are violating more than one.. 



#13 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:38 PM

No I'm not. I'm no more violating the rules than I would be if were to ask for evidence from a god worshiper who was asking others to believe their in mythology.

 

I'm not making a claim. I'm calling BS on those that make the claim that the brain is source of consciousness.

 

I'd like to see evidence for this assertion because I've never come across even a shred of it.



#14 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:47 PM

No I'm not. I'm no more violating the rules than I would be if were to ask for evidence from a god worshiper who was asking others to believe their in mythology.

 

I'm not making a claim. I'm calling BS on those that make the claim that the brain is source of consciousness.

 

I'd like to see evidence for this assertion because I've never come across even a shred of it.

 

 

Again I am not making that assertion, I simply want to know why you think the brain is not the source of consciousness. 

 

Oh and BTW, if you confronted a theist with the assertion that there is no god you would be required to back up that assertion. 

 

I am not being unreasonable but the rules clearly state that "it's obvious" is not an acceptable answer to any question..  


Edited by Moontanman, 21 February 2016 - 12:50 PM.


#15 A-wal

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:52 PM

For exactly the same reason that I don't believe in a god, because it's an outrageous claim that defies common sense and has nothing anywhere close to evidence to support it.


Edited by A-wal, 21 February 2016 - 12:53 PM.


#16 Moontanman

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 12:58 PM

For exactly the same reason that I don't believe in a god, because it's an outrageous claim that defies common sense and has nothing anywhere close to evidence to support it.

 

 

I agree, but if you make the assertion that a god doesn't exist you have to show the reasons why you are asserting that, simply saying it's obvious is not an answer... 



#17 CraigD

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 04:05 PM

Again, I'm not the one making the claim, YOU ARE!

I never claimed the brain is the source of consciousness, I am simply asking why you think it is not. BTW, I suggest you read the rules, you are violating more than one..

This thread requires moderation, so here it is: Moontanman is right, A-wal is wrong.

A-wall, you need to provide links and references supporting the claim

It's self-evident. The brain is a lump of flesh and it's completely absurd to think that any mechanical device can give rise to thoughts and feelings. Soul is just another word for consciousness and it can't be produced by lump of flesh, obviously.

Find a scientific or philosophical paper or website supporting your claim, and post links or references to it.

Moontanman doesn’t need to support the “claim” of asking A-wall to back up his claim, because he is just asking A-wall to follow the site rules.

Also, A-wall, statement like these

Completely obvious, so obvious that to think otherwise is literally insanity.

are not calm, reasoned, and factual, and are rude and offensive. This is against our site rules. Do not say that the thinking of others, especially when those others constitute most scientists and science enthusiasts, “insanity”. Do not try to support your claims by discrediting others by calling them rude names.