The Bible and it's religion.

[Biochemist]

...What I meant was, with so many various interpretations out there, is there one correct way to interpret the Scriptures (meaning all others are wrong or misguided), or are many interpretations equally correct?

Interesting question. It is undoubtedly true that some (perhaps many) interpretations are misguided. The question as to whether a single Biblical passage has more than one interpretation has been debated for at least a thousand years. The apostle Paul occasionally took historical passages in the old testament and applied spiritually specific meaning to them. This means that at least some passages have both literal (historical) truth and also a spiritual component. Most conservative folks regard this as rare, and will contend that Paul could interpret in such as fashion because he had apostolic authority.

 

I do think there is a single set of Truths, and (obligatorily) a set of falsehoods as well. That is, I don't think that Truth varies by individual, any more than gravity does.

 

Figuring out the boundary of Truth (where it wanders into falsehood) is a little complicated. But then so is quantum physics.

[eMTee]

The Bible (like any books ment to teach) is ment to be studied, I think with everything you read, you interpret..some portions of scripture are easyer to bluntly understand than others, others requite in depth study. the moral and point of the Bible does not point in multiple directions. There is one correct interpretation of the Bible, no more, but I will not say that all my enterpretations are correct..but that is not to say I don't know anything.

 

I do not go by any other Book other than the intire Bible itself,

 

I notice that there are a whole lot of Catholics in the world..at least people who claim themselves to be Catholic, and go to Church or Mass every once in a while, But when asked about salvation they usualy always reply with a source of a "Good enough life" (in which the Bible does not suport) to go to Heaven....and then they are not quite sure about achieving Heaven eather, they seem to always reply with a "I think" or "I hope so"

 

The reason the Bible does not have some of the books in it, is because they are eather religously or histoicaly inacurate with the Cannon and or rest of the books. the Bible mentions at least one or two other books that arent in it, but is this an excuse to add them into the Bible?

[mojassty]

I notice that there are a whole lot of Catholics in the world..at least people who claim themselves to be Catholic, and go to Church or Mass every once in a while, But when asked about salvation they usualy always reply with a source of a "Good enough life" (in which the Bible does not suport) to go to Heaven....and then they are not quite sure about achieving Heaven eather, they seem to always reply with a "I think" or "I hope so"

 

The reason the Bible does not have some of the books in it, is because they are eather religously or histoicaly inacurate with the Cannon and or rest of the books. the Bible mentions at least one or two other books that arent in it, but is this an excuse to add them into the Bible?

 

Sadly, I've also noticed a lot of people like the ones you talk about, both in the Catholic Church and in other churches. Although there are many Christians who are devout and well-versed in their religion, there is also an alarming number of people who don't consider their faith an important aspect of their life and are too lazy to investigate their religion on their own. They attend services simply because it keeps them from feeling guilty about the state of their spirituality.

 

I never suggested that other books be added to the Bible. The extra "Catholic" books of the Old Testament are not bizarre obscure books. I've even seen them in Protestant Bibles, listed (along with a few others) under a section between the OT and NT called the "Apocrypha." They must be respectable, if other Christian sects still include them in their Bibles.

 

As for Catholic Tradition, they are meant to supplement the Bible, but are certainly not of the same caliber as Scripture. Tradition includes texts that (a) Give us doctrine about issues that aren't discussed in detail in the Bible (such as the mass ceremony and the sacraments), and (:rant: help to explain and interpret the Scriptures.

[sanctus]

Those people you talk about reflect just one aspect of human nature: a big majority of people is scared to be different from the majority of the society, so they go to church and say they believe just not to stand out...

[eMTee]

("A COUNTRY WITHOUT AN ARMY IS LIKE A FISH WITHOUT A BIKE!!!") what kind of "bike" are you refering to?

 

Those people you talk about reflect just one aspect of human nature: a big majority of people is scared to be different from the majority of the society, so they go to church and say they believe just not to stand out...

I see many who do just the oposite in order not to stand out.

 

saying you are a christian.

going to church

being active in charity, the comunity or church

living a moral life

standing up for what is right

preaching the Bible.

 

Acording to the Bible, do all these things make one a Christian, or achieve salvaton? No, if somone base their salvation on these things, they will be hopelessly lost. The Bible doesn't teach "Heaven threw good works". Many and most people who clam themselves, base it on "good works"..and they do not even try.

[adnaan]

Well.. if you think about it.. for how many times the bible has been modernized.. it kind of makes you feel that you shouldn't believe in it anymore.. because when people modernize, from the current translation interpretation... they may and probably did change it totally..

 

that is a probable reason why there is alot of contradictions in the Bible anywayz..

 

It seems that Islam is the largest growing religion out there.. now if you havent tried reading the Quran you should probably try it out.. its very weird.. anywayz..

 

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

[insight]

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

 

i don't think this is a right understanding, it's may just a coincidence and no scientific knowledge. now can you say anything, which may turn up true in 1000 years or more? if you think like that, hmmm...it's no wisdom. religion can't be messed up with science everytime. science is a fact.

[Boerseun]

The Christian-Judeo-Islamic beliefs (and all the subsets and flavours of it) are all manifestations of the same attempt at creating a form of social order in the mid-East a couple of thousand years ago. The argument can be made that civilization would not have come to be if not for belief in the supernatural.

 

The fact that it is still the driving force for most of the world, including governments spending billions of tax dollars on wars directed at protecting their "God-given" freedoms etc. is just proof of how good a system it was, regardless of how dangerous it has become in the modern context.

 

It's a system built on fear and intimidation - if you don't do exactly what the Book says you'll burn in Hell.

It proposes to be a system built on Love, which is contradictory as far as I can see - I love you, so I'll nail my kid to a cross so that he can die for all your cock-ups.

It tries to be a system catering for human nature, but the moment you get inquisitive and eat from the Tree of Knowledge you get kicked out of Paradise.

Its a system of incest, torture, rape, witchcraft, superstition, bloodshed, racism, warfare, a total disregard for human fallibility and a system which is, to put it kindly, flat out wrong.

 

Jew, Christians and Muslims share the same God, the God of Abraham. If you deny this, then you better go and read up some. Ever since the time of Abraham, these three branches couldn't see eye-to-eye. The Christians believe that Jesus is the saviour - but the Muslims see Jesus as just another prophet, although they do reckon he was a bit brighter than most. The Jews don't deny the fact that there's a saviour, they just believe He's still on His way and that Jesus wasn't It. Which one of these three - the Jews, the Christians, or the Muslims, can lay claim to being the only True Religion, seeing as, by definition, there can be only one?

 

Can we really be so arrogant as to assume that "we" are right, and all others are wrong? What if we're wrong? What if you die, and the next moment you reincarnate as a slug, and it turns out the Hindus were right, after all? How many wars have been started because of this error in reason? Can we blame the Muslims in the mid-East for hating everything that smells like a Christian, if we don't give them the benefit of the doubt as far as religious commitment goes? Can we blame them for being totally pissed off because we won't allow their women to wear their veils seeing as they might hide bombs underneath - regardless of the fact that wearing a veil is prescribed in the Q'uran? How much respect should they have for us, if we have absolutely no respect for them? And can we blame them if they have no respect for us?

 

And to think that we, the children of Abraham, sat around at the same campfire in the desert years ago, shooting the breeze and having fun - until some idiot came with a different interpretation of The Word. And ever since then, so many thousands of years later, we've been blinded by a thousand odd pages' worth of absolute mindless crap. And, as Mr. Bush will testify, it goes to the highest echelons of power.

 

Stupid is as stupid does. If the voices in your head tells you to take your son up the mountain and sacrifice him, by all means - do it.

 

If the Catholics have more or less Books in their Bible than the rest of the Christian world, good on them - just keep in mind what the final instructions in Revelations tells you. Change any single word in this Book, add to it or subtract from it, and you'll burn in Hell. So - if they can disregard this, how much respect have they got for the rest of it? Do they add, remove, chop and change to suit their requirements at the time? I have actually elaborated on this in another thread, so I won't go into it here.

 

Right - that's me for tonight. As far as I'm concerned, read the Bible - by all means. Just see it for what it is. If you want Instruction with a capital "I", you can start off with a couple of Darwin's books.

[adnaan]

YEs.. i have read the bible.. well parts of the bible.. and it really doesnt interest me one bit.. because its soo unbelievable in some areas.. a bit fairy tale like..

but the Quran is a bit more confusing.. as my muslim friend has been telling me..

lemme show you people what this guy has been showing me...

 

In Quran it talks about the creation of man from sperm....oh yeah.. and when it says WE.. as you learn in english.. "We" in these sentences is a royal pural given to anything "great" example "God"

 

It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator? (Qur'an, 56:57-59)

 

Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled [without purpose]? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen? (Qur'an, 75:36-37)

 

We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing. (Qur'an, 76:2)

 

He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected. (Qur'an, 53:45-46)

 

Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female? (Qur'an, 75:37-39)

 

I donno about you guys.. but this muslim guy seems convincing to me.. and im just sharing info... tell me your opinion..!

[eMTee]

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

 

..people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that..

For one, these miracles cannot be explained away scientificaly. that is the whole point of miracles. But threw geological evidence (which has strong suport for the Bible's claims) they have found that the Bible can be considered acurate. The Qu'ran has several copies of the Bible's textual content in it..as well as I think other beliefs..so sure the Qu'ran has the same evidence.

 

how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

 

Many portions of scripture can be found in the Qu'ran on this subject as well.

The Qu'ran was also written after the Bible.

 

The reason They knew so much can only be explained in one way..just a deep down fealing? no, word from God? more likely

[eMTee]

Can we really be so arrogant as to assume that "we" are right, and all others are wrong? What if we're wrong? What if you die, and the next moment you reincarnate as a slug, and it turns out the Hindus were right, after all?

Well..if that happens, What harm did I do in preaching Christianity and the Bible to you all?..and what is the loss that I gained in not believing in reincanation?

 

In that question you ask me and any other person, you have to ask the same thing to yourself.

 

What if you Died and found out that the Christians where right, and you found yourself burning in Hell for the rest of eternity?

 

When you say that God in the Bible is full of hate and not love...I notice that you do not do anything in your power to acualy consider what it means when you read it.

[Harzburgite]

Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

Ask them to tell you which Sura and verse this is in. Let us know and we can then assess that objectively.

[adnaan]

Ask them to tell you which Sura and verse this is in. Let us know and we can then assess that objectively.

 

WEll.. i asked this guy.. and he says he'll look for it.. (this is where i started laughing at him)

 

ANYWAYZ... he was able to give other stuff.. which im going to share..

 

 

This one shows that the expansion of the universe was already know through this verse..

 

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

 

 

This one shows about the creation of the planet through hot smoke..

 

He placed firmly embedded mountains on it, towering over it, and blessed it and measured out its nourishment in it, laid out for those who seek it-all in four days. Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly or unwillingly." They both said, "We come willingly." (Qur'an, 41:10-11)

 

 

This guy says to be open minded and accepting and stuff.. and im thinking.. isnt that wat freethinkers already doo?

[adnaan]

AUGH.!!! my little muslim buddy started pissing me off.. soo i just told him straight forward.. to just plainly give me the SOURCE in which he is getting his information.. instead of just giving me little bits..

soo he gave one..

 

http://harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php

 

If you would like.. browse through it and tell me more opinions.. i browsed through it.. and some i can find that they could have possible already knew.. anywayz you be the judge..

[Tormod]

Please do NOT post Harunyahua links. We used to get them all over the place here. It is a nonsense site masquerading as "scientific answers" while all it does is preach religion. There is *nothing* on that site that will give you objective answers about anything.

[Southtown]

Hi, everyone. This is my first post here. I'm a Christian, an independant one, actually (sort of an anti-denominationalist) for the very reason that this thread discusses, subjective interpretations of scripture. There's just too many people who disagree to trust any of them blindly. I just read the bible and consider its meaning myself or, if with others, I prefer two-way communication over the "I preach, you listen" method. I must say, though, I hear good sermons sometimes, but I always have to check their interpretations out for myself. My philosophy is that one cannot be told the Truth, they have to seek it out for themselves. (Psalm 145:18)

 

The Christian-Judeo-Islamic beliefs (and all the subsets and flavours of it) are all manifestations of the same attempt at creating a form of social order in the mid-East a couple of thousand years ago.

Actually, Judaism starting with Abraham sometime before 2000 B.C. did not have a ruler until the people demanded one. (1 Samuel 8:6-7) Christianity starting with Jesus around 30 A.D. (the crucifixion) testifies to justification apart from deeds (as opposed to "do-it-or-burn") and was prophesied in Jewish scripture, whether they accept it or not. (Romans 4:16-18) Then, Islam starting with Mohammed about 500 years after Christ died (and rose again) has no root of it's own, but claims the Hebrew roots and then turns around and disses the Jews and the Christians. It is a parasite that poisons its host. Besides, the credibility should go to the eldest of religions and the Savior of whom it testifies. (Daniel 9:25-26)

 

It's a system built on fear and intimidation - if you don't do exactly what the Book says you'll burn in Hell.

I look at it like: if you want to live in a perfect world after this one, that's fine... if not, that's fine, too. The Book says that nobody's perfect and everyone will burn in Hell. But it also says that forgiveness is free to all who accept it. (Romans 3:23-24) What's bad about that? This system only eliminates the hard-of-heart.

 

Which one of these three - the Jews, the Christians, or the Muslims, can lay claim to being the only True Religion, seeing as, by definition, there can be only one?

My guess would be to investigate each one. But only Christianity admits that a man can never acheive perfection through his deeds. And a God who saves any willing souls regardless of their mistakes is the only kind of God I could put my faith in.

 

Can we really be so arrogant as to assume that "we" are right, and all others are wrong? What if we're wrong? What if you die, and the next moment you reincarnate as a slug, and it turns out the Hindus were right, after all? How many wars have been started because of this error in reason? Can we blame the Muslims in the mid-East for hating everything that smells like a Christian, if we don't give them the benefit of the doubt as far as religious commitment goes? Can we blame them for being totally pissed off because we won't allow their women to wear their veils seeing as they might hide bombs underneath - regardless of the fact that wearing a veil is prescribed in the Q'uran? How much respect should they have for us, if we have absolutely no respect for them? And can we blame them if they have no respect for us?

Are you numbering yourself with the Christians? Or with the Jews? Because neither are starting wars with Islam.

 

The holy land conflict doesn't involve the Christians, strangely enough. Jews had claim to the holy land (Isreal) off and on since the time of Abraham. Islam never lived in that region and their claims to it are false. They are migrants from Saudi Arabia, who found themselves with a country next to Israel after WWI when Europe drew new country boundries. A "Palestinian" is anyone in that place at that time regardless of religion or ethnicity.

 

Their religion is a counterfeit (literally) and their history was given to them by lying dictators who wanted to expand the Palestine borders (greed) across Israel to the Mediterranean Sea. Strangely, the entire world seems to be siding with Islam (who attacks other nations besides Isreal *ahem*) except for our oddly unpopular conservative president and his scant few allies even though Islam was undeniably never rooted in Israel.

 

So it is in fact the Muslims starting wars with the Jews and Christians, just like the secularists in the west are ousting Christians from the democratic process. The holocaust wasn't an isolated incident, it's been this way since Moses, and it will be this way until Christ comes. (2 Timothy 3:12-13) The world simply hates God's people, and your post is evidence of that, Boerseun.

 

Stupid is as stupid does. If the voices in your head tells you to take your son up the mountain and sacrifice him, by all means - do it.

I agree with this. Seek your own truth, beyond the comprehension or approval of others. And trust that God brings you to the real truth, the absolute truth, and that He is bigger than death.

 

By the way, some important misconceptions about the bible need to be pointed out. The bible doesn't say there is life after death or that people go to heaven or hell forever when they die. It says there's a resurrection at the end of the world when the new world is made, and that all will be resurrected. Those who sought the truth with an honest heart and/or those who did not deny the truth when they heard it will be transformed into perfect beings. The others will be held accountable to their own beliefs (none of which will be found flawless, though) and destroyed by the white fire of God's presence, not perpetually tortured forever. Check another of my posts for more details, read the links to scripture, and interpret them for yourself.

 

If the Catholics have more or less Books in their Bible than the rest of the Christian world, good on them - just keep in mind what the final instructions in Revelations tells you. Change any single word in this Book, add to it or subtract from it, and you'll burn in Hell. So - if they can disregard this, how much respect have they got for the rest of it? Do they add, remove, chop and change to suit their requirements at the time? I have actually elaborated on this in another thread, so I won't go into it here.

Can't comment on the apocrypha because I haven't researched OT validity. I don't read it, and I'm not Catholic. I don't agree at all with their extra-scriptural customs and traditions.

[eMTee]

Southtown...I am also a nondenominational Christian, nice to have you comment.

 

I agree with you fully on most of what you said..the only things that differ on is when you said that the Muslem people are some migrants from Sadi-Arabia. I get it that you are saying that they are just some migrants wanting the Holy Land (in which that was possably not all you ment). They are decendents from Ishmael, which was one of the sons of Abraham...so they got that.

 

The seccond disagreement that I have is when you sead

 

"The bible doesn't say there is life after death or that people go to heaven or hell forever when they die. It says there's a resurrection at the end of the world when the new world is made, and that all will be resurrected. Those who sought the truth with an honest heart and/or those who did not deny the truth when they heard it will be transformed into perfect beings." The other

 

For one, the Bible says several times that for those who goes to hell, it's for all eternity.

 

When everyone is judged, they will be judged by their faith in Christ.

 

This is a fact. if you seek the truth with in honest heart..you will find it...and I believe that would happen before death.

 

"Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives, he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" Matthew 7:7-11