Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The Computer That Can Help Humanity In Science Forever.

Science Computer Simulation Past Present Future Orbit Life Time Geology

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 TheSoloPlayer

TheSoloPlayer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 01:29 PM

 Please do not steal my idea I am about to share with you. I am only 13 years old.

We could build a supercomputer ( or a computer that can handle the amount of processing power needed for this ) that could calculate orbits, planets, how the gravity affects other objects, etc. Basically we input all known events I.E. big bang theory, dinosaurs, extinction, protoplanet hits protoearth and creates moon, Jesus is born, planetary geology, heat, radiation, GRB, life as we know it, and the list goes on and on. We can then make a massive and highly intelligent A.I. that is able to calculate things that happen to reach those events. Say we don't know the missing link with evolution so the A.I. can figure out what series of events could reach to the missing link or calculate every possible human type till the computer figures out that missing link.

 The computer would need lots of RAM, graphic cards, ROM, etc. to process everything. In this way space agencies can figure out what series of events can occure for a meteor to hit earth, and possibly even calculate how to prevent such events from occuring. Something like this could tell when life started, or other life could have started. Or calculate when natural disasters would happen such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc.

 Of course this coul mean that the computer would tell the future. I understand that there has been made something like this, the computer that calculated 12 billion years after the big bang to the present day. And thinking of this for a while I have found a paradox which goes as the following: Say we looked several millions of years into the future ( take into account also that one of the events that would be put in was the making of the computer itself ) and decided to build the advanced machinery of the future in the present day. This would mean that those machines would not be created several millions of years in the future, but instead in the present day. And in this way the computer would have never predicted the future machinery in the first place, but in the present. Quite a mind twister right?

 Any ways if you could give me advice or anything on such a computer, than let me know. Or if you found a solution to the paradox.

 



#2 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 02:21 PM

It's an interesting idea, and modeling the real world is something lots of people spend their careers on.

 

Here's a question for you to ponder: how do we get all the data about everything that ever has happened into the computer? How do we collect it? Do you think we can actually find it all? What do we do if we can't get some of the information?

 

As a software person, I rarely see any problem like this as being one where hardware is the most troublesome obstacle. So I am biased, but you might want to think about the fact that the problem isn't how many CPUs or how much RAM.

 

 

Design and programming are human activities; forget that and all is lost. :phones:

Buffy



#3 TheSoloPlayer

TheSoloPlayer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 02:59 PM

It's an interesting idea, and modeling the real world is something lots of people spend their careers on.

 

Here's a question for you to ponder: how do we get all the data about everything that ever has happened into the computer? How do we collect it? Do you think we can actually find it all? What do we do if we can't get some of the information?

 

As a software person, I rarely see any problem like this as being one where hardware is the most troublesome obstacle. So I am biased, but you might want to think about the fact that the problem isn't how many CPUs or how much RAM.

 

 

Design and programming are human activities; forget that and all is lost. :phones:

Buffy

 Simple. We just need to look into all we know of history, add as much theories of relativity, laws of gravity, laws of motion, big bang theory, etc. We could basically update the system every day or week to stay up to date with current events and increase the A.I.'s precision and decision making. It would mean that those history lessons would actually be of some use finally. LOL. The computer could work in a way as a server. Although may not be the best idea to directly connect it to the internet cause of hacker problems. 1) It would have a single input way of connecting to the "server". It would be like your average computer, just with a high power, super intelligent desktop. I.E. input the data from monitor and keyboard, into simulation, using programming language.

 2) We collect all the data from history books, theories, etc. and turn it into data that the computer would understand.

 3) We can collect as much data possible, such as archaeological findings, and written history. If possible from primary sources.

 4) We should get as much data that is possible into the computer. If we cant get some information that is not openly available than we can just hope that the computer could calculate that missing information.



#4 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 03:50 PM

 If we cant get some information that is not openly available than we can just hope that the computer could calculate that missing information.

 

This may sound like it's not an interesting problem, but it actually is: an awful lot of Science Fiction is built on the idea that some of the slightest changes in the data can have enormous effects on the future outcomes, especially when you're talking about predicting things millions of years into the future! Read Ray Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder for an example.

 

Some people who've worked on this problem believe that unless you have a complete recording of ever state of every sub-atomic particle ever (something that Quantum Mechanics says you can't do anyway), the predictive power of any such model would be very limited.

 

It sounds like it's simple, but such problems rarely are. Think of it this way, if it was so simple, someone would have done it by now....

 

None of this should stop you from looking into it, because just the journey will result in learning lots of interesting stuff! :cheer:

 

 

Step on a mouse and you leave your print, like a Grand Canyon, across Eternity. Queen Elizabeth might never be born, Washington might not cross the Delaware, there might never be a United States at all, :phones:

Buffy



#5 TheSoloPlayer

TheSoloPlayer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 05:10 PM

This may sound like it's not an interesting problem, but it actually is: an awful lot of Science Fiction is built on the idea that some of the slightest changes in the data can have enormous effects on the future outcomes, especially when you're talking about predicting things millions of years into the future! Read Ray Bradbury's A Sound of Thunder for an example.

 

Some people who've worked on this problem believe that unless you have a complete recording of ever state of every sub-atomic particle ever (something that Quantum Mechanics says you can't do anyway), the predictive power of any such model would be very limited.

 

It sounds like it's simple, but such problems rarely are. Think of it this way, if it was so simple, someone would have done it by now....

 

None of this should stop you from looking into it, because just the journey will result in learning lots of interesting stuff! :cheer:

 

 

Step on a mouse and you leave your print, like a Grand Canyon, across Eternity. Queen Elizabeth might never be born, Washington might not cross the Delaware, there might never be a United States at all, :phones:

Buffy

It is important to get all data that is conceivable. That's why there would never be a final version of such a computer. You would constantly need to update the events of history. And such a thing can be hard such as telling how many particle's were removed from the 9/11 incident. Of course some people don't want a computer like this to be built because of technological singularity. I understand that people don't like to think about an AI smarter than us destroying everything, but you can't always be so negative. Especially how the only way to learn is from having mistake's. Wouldn't the AI know that? And that they would be smart enough to escape the grasp of other AI's if this computer created others? Plus we are living in the 21st century people! Are we really going to want to stay at the same tech we have now in millions of years in the future? To the point where the sun is already beginning to destroy our world anyways?

 I don't want to make a machine that shows the past and edit it either! We learn things everyday, so if something doesn't work out now, than it will work out better in the future!



#6 HarrisR

HarrisR

    Thinking

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 08:14 PM

I understand that people don't like to think about an AI smarter than us destroying everything, but you can't always be so negative. Especially how the only way to learn is from having mistake's. Wouldn't the AI know that? And that they would be smart enough to escape the grasp of other AI's if this computer created others? 

I think you may want to learn more about AI. I highly suggest these videos. Tl;Dr: General AIs are not smart nor do they have any emotion. They will achieve the best method of completing their task. This can have some unwanted effects. Also we can't create accurate models of reality for these AI so therefore it will not know the full effects of it's actions.

Hill Climbing Algorithm & Artificial Intelligence:

Holy Grail of AI (Artificial Intelligence)


Deadly Truth of General AI

:
AI Self Improvement:

 

They are all by the same source (Robert Miles w/ Computerphile) but they are very well done.


Edited by HarrisR, 26 September 2015 - 08:19 PM.


#7 Volpone

Volpone

    Curious

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 14 October 2015 - 01:46 AM

 Please do not steal my idea I am about to share with you. I am only 13 years old.

We could build a supercomputer ( or a computer that can handle the amount of processing power needed for this ) that could calculate orbits, planets, how the gravity affects other objects, etc. Basically we input all known events I.E. big bang theory, dinosaurs, extinction, protoplanet hits protoearth and creates moon, Jesus is born, planetary geology, heat, radiation, GRB, life as we know it, and the list goes on and on. We can then make a massive and highly intelligent A.I. that is able to calculate things that happen to reach those events. Say we don't know the missing link with evolution so the A.I. can figure out what series of events could reach to the missing link or calculate every possible human type till the computer figures out that missing link.

 The computer would need lots of RAM, graphic cards, ROM, etc. to process everything. In this way space agencies can figure out what series of events can occure for a meteor to hit earth, and possibly even calculate how to prevent such events from occuring. Something like this could tell when life started, or other life could have started. Or calculate when natural disasters would happen such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc.

 Of course this coul mean that the computer would tell the future. I understand that there has been made something like this, the computer that calculated 12 billion years after the big bang to the present day. And thinking of this for a while I have found a paradox which goes as the following: Say we looked several millions of years into the future ( take into account also that one of the events that would be put in was the making of the computer itself ) and decided to build the advanced machinery of the future in the present day. This would mean that those machines would not be created several millions of years in the future, but instead in the present day. And in this way the computer would have never predicted the future machinery in the first place, but in the present. Quite a mind twister right?

 Any ways if you could give me advice or anything on such a computer, than let me know. Or if you found a solution to the paradox.

 

I think you should start thinking on a smaller scale. In other words, question the finer concepts much more.

 

First of all, what historical events do you think should be input into this supercomputer? All of them? There is a seemingly infinite amount of historical events and it would be impossible to input everything such a computer with finite space. Are there historical events that you value placing into the computer over others? What determines a historical event's value? Also, what about historical events that are unknown to us? Leaving these out could cause significant miscalculations because of missing/unknown variables. There are so many questions to ask about this considering finite space, different values, and unknown events.

 

Second, AI is not that simple. What exactly do you consider to be an highly intelligent AI? One that can pass the turing test for self awareness? Or do you just want something that can apply formula after formula towards events in history? This raises another question actually. How are these events in history stored in memory? Are they spatial mappings of particles? Are they just stories stored in plain text? How would a computer calculate something based off of history? There needs to be some kind of formal input such that a computer can perform some sort of generalized algorithm for an understandable/sensible output.

 

Third, recorded historical events do not include that much of the events that occur outside of our planet. We would have no way of using whatever knowledge we have to all of a sudden calculate when a meteor could hit Earth. Much less is there a way to prevent such an event from occurring just with some calculations. We'd need the actual power to do so and current technology is very limited in that aspect.

 

Fourth, the paradox is known quite well. Of course, maybe not under the specific conditions that you have set yourself, but under different variations. Try looking up the grandfather paradox and parallel universes.

 

Fifth, if the supercomputer is never in a final stage, when can we use it to make accurate predictions? How do we know if we can trust the results for critical decisions? Do we just go by the method of constantly testing it and if it reaches over a certain percentage of correctness, then we can trust it? It would take a lot of funding to build this and if there are no real results anytime soon because of a lack of correctness, then it could go downhill very fast.

 

Sixth, I don't think any of the people that have responded to you here are afraid of AI. Don't worry about having to convince us about that. I'm pretty sure we're all open to changing technology here. However, questions need to be raised about the finer details in large ideas. Keep thinking, keep questioning, and most importantly keep up your creativity.


  • sanctus likes this

#8 AuraNightheart

AuraNightheart

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 14 October 2015 - 09:43 AM

I agree with Volpone, I believe you should start out with less. What you're describing is incredibly complex, and would take many years to develop. Plus, it might even be impossible. Going off of what both Volpone and HarrisR said, what type of AI are you talking about? Like, AI that can think for itself or AI that is just a very advanced computer?



#9 superpsycho

superpsycho

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:07 PM

 Please do not steal my idea I am about to share with you. I am only 13 years old.

We could build a supercomputer ( or a computer that can handle the amount of processing power needed for this ) that could calculate orbits, planets, how the gravity affects other objects, etc. Basically we input all known events I.E. big bang theory, dinosaurs, extinction, protoplanet hits protoearth and creates moon, Jesus is born, planetary geology, heat, radiation, GRB, life as we know it, and the list goes on and on. We can then make a massive and highly intelligent A.I. that is able to calculate things that happen to reach those events. Say we don't know the missing link with evolution so the A.I. can figure out what series of events could reach to the missing link or calculate every possible human type till the computer figures out that missing link.

 The computer would need lots of RAM, graphic cards, ROM, etc. to process everything. In this way space agencies can figure out what series of events can occure for a meteor to hit earth, and possibly even calculate how to prevent such events from occuring. Something like this could tell when life started, or other life could have started. Or calculate when natural disasters would happen such as earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc.

 Of course this coul mean that the computer would tell the future. I understand that there has been made something like this, the computer that calculated 12 billion years after the big bang to the present day. And thinking of this for a while I have found a paradox which goes as the following: Say we looked several millions of years into the future ( take into account also that one of the events that would be put in was the making of the computer itself ) and decided to build the advanced machinery of the future in the present day. This would mean that those machines would not be created several millions of years in the future, but instead in the present day. And in this way the computer would have never predicted the future machinery in the first place, but in the present. Quite a mind twister right?

 Any ways if you could give me advice or anything on such a computer, than let me know. Or if you found a solution to the paradox.

I think like many people you assume computers have capabilities they don't. Computers can only do what they are specifically told to do, they just do it very fast. You can enter every book and document ever written and the computer would just see them as text files and nothing more. To do what you suggest, every combination of word relationships would have to be defined by humans and entered into a database. Unfortunately, humans can't agree on what those relationships are, much less know all the possibilities. If you could define all those relationships you would then have to define what you want the computer to do with them in detail step by step. I doubt there is anyone who would even know where to begin with such a huge task.

A computer is not a brain. Effectively a computer is nothing more than millions of switches that have been meticulously organized for specific tasks.


  • sanctus likes this

#10 CraigD

CraigD

    Creating

  • Administrators
  • 8034 posts

Posted 11 August 2016 - 03:22 PM

A computer is not a brain. Effectively a computer is nothing more than millions of switches that have been meticulously organized for specific tasks.

Which gave rise more 40+ years ago (It was old in 1978) to a famous jingle, commonly called “The Programmers Lament” which remains poignant to this day:

I really hate this damned machine
I wish that they would sell it.
It never does quite what I want
But only what I tell it.


  • LaurieAG likes this

#11 whocares386

whocares386

    Curious

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:54 PM

Good idea but practically will it run as you planned ?



#12 LaurieAG

LaurieAG

    Explaining

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1509 posts

Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:46 PM

 Any ways if you could give me advice or anything on such a computer, than let me know. Or if you found a solution to the paradox.

 

TheSoloPlayer, you appear to make one big assumption that all of our science is absolute truth and not just the best we have at the moment.

 

If we could determine which part of what we 'know' is true and what is false we wouldn't actually need the computer program you refer to.



#13 KendraSpringfield

KendraSpringfield

    Curious

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 28 August 2017 - 09:36 PM

It's good that as young as you are, these ideas are already popping in your mind. It's actually a very interesting one. :) 



#14 hazelm

hazelm

    Creating

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1062 posts

Posted 29 August 2017 - 04:38 AM

Let me first stress that I do agree with all everyone above has  advised, at least not with the type of computers we have today.  But, that said, I could not help but remember one of my favorite poems.  Take it to heart, whatever you try.   Maybe, first, build a better computer.

 

It Couldn’t Be Done
Somebody said that it couldn’t be done
      But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
      Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
      On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
      That couldn’t be done, and he did it!
 
Somebody scoffed: “Oh, you’ll never do that;
      At least no one ever has done it;”
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
      And the first thing we knew he’d begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
      Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
      That couldn’t be done, and he did it.
 
There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
      There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
      The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
      Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing

      That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it.

 

 

               --------by Edgar A Guest


  • Buffy likes this

#15 scherado

scherado

    Questioning

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 207 posts

Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:27 PM

...
Some people who've worked on this problem believe that unless you have a complete recording of ever state of every sub-atomic particle ever (something that Quantum Mechanics says you can't do anyway), the predictive power of any such model would be very limited.
...





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Science, Computer, Simulation, Past, Present, Future, Orbit, Life, Time, Geology