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#35 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:21 PM

Humm pain?:D u sure would want to get hit and feel it in real?:D about other 8 i agree^^

#36 17robots

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:22 PM

 

You actually would need 9 senses 

 
  1. Hearing
  2. Smell
  3. Taste
  4. Touch
  5. Balance
  6. Temperature
  7. Proprioception (body awareness)
  8. Pain

Hearing, touch, temperature and Pain wont be that hard...

The rest you'll need to figure out which will be difficult...

 

Good, good, we have ideas brewing, but that is not enough as of this point. I have been monitoring other forums and people are already figuring out this stuff. I know we have this though. can eegs send electrical signals to the brain? We should try to figure that out. Also, I was thinking of investing in an epoc or epoc+ for more research. Does that sound like a good idea?



#37 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:34 PM

I think electromagnet should read/writte. But not really sure how it would affect human. Same as probably electro could even send neural data into brain there is tech what can do it just we would need to make bigger research of it and make more effective in for full dive into VR.

#38 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:41 PM

Good thing that we wouldnt need microphones or earphones as we could directly transfer game data into brain and vice versa:)

#39 TheSoloPlayer

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:43 PM

Electromagnets could possibly displace and/or block signals sent from the brain. Then we could set our own values to show the person the world that they are in. I'm thinking about how do we have values for smell though... Maybe we could access the part of the brain where there is memories and grab values for certain things and make them into the game.



#40 TheSoloPlayer

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:45 PM

I also think that looking at these videos can help:


  • CraigD and Puppy7718 like this

#41 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:46 PM

So there wouldnt be big difference from real life communication and VR. Same as in real sound goes into ear and sends info to brain. Just in VR it would be sound goes in VR and sends to info to brain and vice versa. Like lets take example usual dream state. Our body is disabled but we do feel dream. There shouldnt be big difference from VR and it.

#42 17robots

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:46 PM

That is a great idea with the magnets. But the question is can we make them small enough and accurate enough to not block the nerves that need o be there or we'd die?

 

Electromagnets could possibly displace and/or block signals sent from the brain. Then we could set our own values to show the person the world that they are in. I'm thinking about how do we have values for smell though... Maybe we could access the part of the brain where there is memories and grab values for certain things and make them into the game.



#43 TheSoloPlayer

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:53 PM

maybe... to make something like a MRI which scans the brain mainly to look for tumors and other anomalies in the brain, you'd need a LOT of power and some strong electromagnets. Then you'd also need some type of protection for the eeg against the Electromagnetic field which can interfere with mostly anything electronic. Which is everything. So there will be quiet some work put in to the protection if we were to use magnets to interfere with neuronal signals and input data directly to the brain or neuronal connections.



#44 TheSoloPlayer

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:56 PM

Another thing I would think about is how would the game be bought as? In my imagination for a physical copy you would need to put the games on hard drives. But another idea is through the internet somehow.



#45 17robots

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:01 PM

Another thing I would think about is how would the game be bought as? In my imagination for a physical copy you would need to put the games on hard drives. But another idea is through the internet somehow.

Well in the manga and the anime, people bought the game, and they put it into the back slot close to the memory, it downloaded the normal stuff like a game on the xbox or playstation would, and would run when the user said "Link Start". So I was thinking a physical copy.



#46 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:07 PM

Hmm i think it would be little better for download. Bcoz if we add extra cd drive where to put game we would need cooler for it too. Like example NG had internal memory so what if like example download it there same as usual user files like char lvl status items. Bcoz to play mmo we need internet anyway so simple way would b better just to download it then add cd rom what would make probably helmet more bigger.

#47 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:11 PM

Adding cd drive isnt expensive but as we already will add internal memory for full dive why just not download it then add big case next to head with cd all time spining. + what if cd scratches or gets somehow damaged or cd scanner gets damaged. I would more preffer like sao AmuSphere simple and small then big heavy NG. Its not coz of size but also better in using and comfortable for user.

#48 CraigD

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:25 PM

That could easily be done by stimulating the optic nerves. If we could get the electric pulses right, we could potential render what a camera sees, convert it into electric pulses, and send those down the two nerves straight to the brain, making it seem like we are seeing. What do you think?

I think it’s in principle possible to produce the perception of a normal visual image by stimulating the optic nerve, but that wouldn’t be easy to do.

In a 30 patient clinical trial started in 2006, the Argus II retinal prosthesis system, which is intended to restore vision to people who are effectively blind but have intact retinas and optic nerves, was able to give people the ability to detect large objects like walls and doors, and in some cases, recognize large-print letters. This system uses 60 implanted electrodes, and doesn’t attempt to reproduce the complicated way that the retina stimulates the optic nerve, but simply “draws” an processed image captured by a camera onto a collection of nerves. The patient sees “spots of light”, that, through training and practice, they are able to use to recognize actual objects and shapes. The Argus II is approved for commercial sale in Europe, and limited use in the US.

The Argus has also successfully been used to allow blind people to see brail letters generated directly from text, without the use of a camera, - see http://www.wired.co....mprints-braille for more.

A similar, older system, the Dobelle artificial vision system, implants electrodes directly on the brain, rather than the retinal optic nerves. Its closeness to actual vision was greater than the Argus, but the surgery it required was more complicated and riskier, and adverse effects more severe, so it was never approved for sale or non-experimental use, and has largely been abandoned.

If we consider our dreamed-of FullDive system’s visual system to be analogous to present-day FUHD resolution video, existing technology in producing vision via nerve simulation is analogous to 19th century telegraphs.
 

... send those down the two nerves straight to the brain ...

It’s important to understand that the optic nerve is not a single nerve, but a bundle of 700000 to 1700000 nerve fibers. So you can’t simoly stimulate it with a single analog or digitalally modulated voltage like that produced by a camera. In computer hardware terms, the optic system is a ”parallel, not serial, interface” – massively more parallel than the electronic communication schemes to which these terms are usually applied.

The several orders of magnitude difference between the number of electrodes in present-day nerve-stimulating electrode grids (on the order of 1 to 100) and the number of individual nerve fibers in even a small subset of the human nervous system (on the order of 1000000) is an obvious challenge for FullDive technology. A FullDive system would need to have either on the order of 10000 times smaller physical electrodes – practically nanotechnology – or a completely different way of stimulating neurons, such as optogenetics.

This wouldn’t be fun if it was easy, would it? :)

Edited by CraigD, 17 June 2015 - 09:52 PM.
Corrected spelling


#49 TheSoloPlayer

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:49 PM

Yes... It would take several thousands of electrodes to connect to different nerves and stimulate them to see objects in a game.. So that would bring us straight to some type of wireless connection... I wonder if electromagnetism can stimulate the nerves and neuron's to be able to see and hear. Than you would have taste and smell which, still is unknown what would be used. Possibly stimulate the nerves in your tongue and nose but I still cant figure out how do you get a scent such as a flower? Any ideas? I'm still thinking whether or not to join your company but we might as well exchange ideas as if we were working together in the same company...



#50 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:49 PM

@CraigD using camera isnt gud i think coz it would most likely wouldnt be full dive but more like ps morpheus or "OR" but you said that argus managed to make blind see even without camera. As while in VR body is being disabled only brain and vital parts are working. As character is in game he would basically see virtual world but to make it more closely to real feel can we cheat brain to make it think that what is happening in game is real eyes? By send data to centrain nerve which is responsible for eye sight. If it would be possible then we could also control character with those nerves. Example try raise hand then ur game character raises it but ur body is disabled.

#51 Loney

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:52 PM

@thesoloplayer if we could manipulate with brain thinking that game data what device would send to brain is real then smell and taste come too. Just ofc if manipulate with correct nerves and send like example food data to them.



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