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Police Officer Conduct


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#1 Deepwater6

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Posted 09 June 2015 - 04:54 PM

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=31624657

I'd like to start a thread about this incident, share my thoughts, and hopefully get input and opinions from others on this site about the event. As I write this I see on the ABC news website that the officer has just resigned over this.

From what I know, and I'll admit up front this information is from various news outlets not known facts, but there seems to be a consistent report on most of the events and the time line seems to match all acounts.

When I was younger some of my pals had pools in their back yard, but as a teenager it was still fun to jump into the large apartment complex pool up the street. It would close at 8pm and we would sneak in around eleven. sooner or later someone in the apartments that surrounded the pool would call the manager because we were making too much noise when they wanted to go to sleep.

Of course as soon as the manager showed up or the police we ran for our lives.

If this account is correct the group was made up of white and black children. They were asked to leave by the manager first and ignored it. In my opinion that's the first strike against all of them getting respect that is often asked for in these situations. Second strike against respect, The police asked them to leave and they ignored authorities for some time before they left. Third strike against respect extreme profanity directed at law enforcement who were only trying to do there job.

 

Respect must be given on both sides. Some people ignore respect to others and police then demand they get it from them.
 



#2 CraigD

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 07:22 AM

Until a well-researched, widely accepted account of the events involving former policeman Eric Casebolt and 14-year old Dajerria Becton has been published, I think it’s risky to make more than general comments about it. Given how much national and international attention it has drawn, I expect this will be done soon, although it may be delayed due to pending civil or criminal legal proceedings.

Without this information, I think the best source of information is the original, unedited video, which is available at this youtube page. Note that the full video is about 7 min 20 seconds long, the remainder being repeats of earlier parts. I encourage everyone to watch the first 7:20 of this video.

A good opinion of whether Casebolt misbehaved is, I think, his voluntary quitting his policeman job, and his statement, delivered by an attorney, that he believes he misbehaved. The reasons given for his misbehavior seem to me sensible and truthful: that he was emotionally stressed after having earlier in the day consoled the family of a suicide victim, then successfully intervened in a teenager’s apparent suicide attempt, so “allowed his emotions to get the better of him” in his altercation with Becton. Casebolt appears to have considered not participating in the event because of his emotional state. In hindsight, it’s clear thing would have been better if he hadn’t. From the video, it appears to me Casebolt is not “out of control” or behaving brutally, but makes poor decisions in his attempt to calm people and control the situation.

It appears that, fortunately, nobody was seriously hurt.

I think the most important psychological sociological question raised by this story is why it has drawn so much attention, and has such severe consequences for Casebolt, which is tied strongly to why the bystander-made video of it went viral, drawing so much individual and news agency attention so quickly. I think this was not due to the parts of the video showing Casebolt downing and restraining Becton, but the parts where it shows him drawing and pointing his handgun at two boys who approach him as he is restraining Becton (The two boys immediately run away, and two policemen appear in shot moments later, briefly interact with Casebolt, then give chase. Minutes later, one of the boys is brought back handcuffed. I understand he was arrested and charged with interfering with a police officer, but that the charge was soon dropped).

The image of a gun being pointed at these boys, and the implication that they might be killed unjustly, is, I think, the main driver of attention to this story.

The most important civil sociological question raised is, I think, whether it is illegal to show disrespect to police. From other bystander interviews, it appears the reason Casebolt grabbed Becton from among a group of similar-looking girls who he had ordered to leave, and who appear to have been leaving, was because “he thought we were saying rude stuff to him”.

I don’t believe it is illegal to say “rude stuff” to policepeople, provided that stuff is not threatening. I believe that, in part because he was emotionally stressed by his activities earlier that day, Casebolt overreacted and grabbed Becton when he should not have.

#3 Deepwater6

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 04:26 PM

http://www.npr.org/s...-spikes-in-2014

http://www.npr.org/s...-spikes-in-2014

I appreciate your view on this Craig, but have a few problems with it. As you said all the facts are not in so we must be careful not let our imaginations tell us what happened. But there are some parts we did at least see and that was the interaction between Miss Becton and officer Casebolt.

That said the problems I see are not only lack of respect for a person our society agreed to put in a position to protect and serve us, it also shows multiple occasions of lack of compliance.

I'm willing to admit officer Casebolt took Miss Becton down hard, but the video does not give the sense of what was really happening out of view. Several people appear to be disregarding compliance, walking/running in circles leaving the officers confused and causing them (for their own safety) to have them sit down.

If the newspapers are correct in reporting that even after the police asked them to get out of the pool it's again lack of compliance. Society must have compliance to operate safely. how do the swimmers know that someone just infused arsenic into the filter line or some other dangerous chemical. When the officer took Miss Becton to the ground, she wound not turn over and lay on her stomach as it seems the officer trying to get to do.

Now the media has it and blew it out of proportion of course. I don't think officer Casebolt resigned because he felt he did something wrong as you offered as a possibility I think he resigned because he knew the media wouldn't rest until he lost job or was crucified by his superiors.

The attachment above about Baltimore cops afraid to do there jobs is a perfect example of where non-compliance leads society. The NPR attachment shows the 126 officer killed in 2014. So when the young men were charging towards officer casebolt he was engaged with a non-compiling Becton. The chance exist that the boys would try to push him off her or worse if they had a knife.

Its easy to watch a video from the comfort off our office and living room and pick apart what and officer did in the split second he acted. Most of us cannot relate to police life, you send the wrong e=mail, no problem, you copier needs ink I'll get it tomorrow. no big deal, but it doesn't work that way for cops.

They only have seconds in some situations to make decisions that could save their life, that doesn't occur too often on a cubical.

So my final point is I agree with you about the media. It was blown way out of proportion. the media has  the power to make opinions for many people, but in the end its just like money, it really doesn't have any value until we give it some.







 



#4 sanctus

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 03:14 AM

What I actually think is almost a bit funny about this is that the media blew this to bigger proportions than all the fatal police shooting over the last few months. The only reason I can see is because it is a girl, I mean Tamir Rice was even younger...
I also think there was only misconduct in this case, no risk of shooting remember there were other 11 police officers there who would have intervened.

 

Wrt to compliance and respect, I think that police does not earn more or less than other humans just because they are police. They show respect they get respect and compliance from me, they abuse their power and I still comply (= not wanting to get into trouble) but they have no respect from me neither.



#5 Deepwater6

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 08:53 AM

I disagree with the compliance being earned by the police. Example; if there is a horrific accident on the highway ahead of you and an officer puts his hand up to stop traffic but you ignore him and drive thru it anyway. How would you know that the officer hadn't "earned" his respect or compliance from you? Example; If there is a crime seen with fatalities and the officer rudely tells you to stay out of the area what can happen? "Well he didn't earn my respect so I'm not going to comply with request to stay out of the scene that could hold vital evidence to solve the case".

I believe society must give officers some level of ability to make us comply. If we can just ignore them whenever we feel disrespected it would chaos. it's a line that shifts back and forth as to how much power they have. As you can see the from the article about Baltimore.

There are bad cops out there no doubt, all I'm saying is even if a bad cop throws me to the ground and cuffs me for just walking in the park, I would lay down as he asked and put my hands behind my back. If he figures out he has the wrong guy I'll be let go shortly. If not I'll have my day in court. What possible positive outcome can come from fighting the officer and refusing to get cuffed?




 



#6 sanctus

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 02:44 AM

You misread me, I talked about respect and compliance as twp separate things, respect is earned, compliance is there anyway (why get into trouble for nothing...). And yes, a policemen telling me rudely to stay out of an area with fatalities etc., would make me comply and if I see that it is something big (eg. plenty of police) then the officer does also not lose my respect-->normal to be stressed out. But, real story, when I go through passport control (before Schengen) from France to Switzerland and everyone has a passport ready in their hand and is not controlloed and I therefore do not have it ready in my hands (because I am carrying a lot of stuff) and the officer only asks me to show the passport, then I get annoyed and he for sure does not have any earned respect, I still but my stuff down though and fished out the passport (mumbling some equivalent to wtf).



#7 Deepwater6

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:06 PM

I feel for you Sanctus, I flew from the US to Panama a few months ago. I flew a lot when I was younger and way before 911. I had heard of the upgraded security since that event and others trying to take down a plane. The flight was beautiful, Panama has something akin to a rain forest on top of steep trails in some areas, for me it was a few hours of mental nirvana.

 

But the worst, and I mean worst part of the trip was security. I stood in line for 45mins. each way for the security check. There was at least 15 police officers and 20 TSA personnel at each check of the American side. The TSA  people deal with the public all day so they have become rude by default, sort of like the DMV.

 

I put everything I had including wallet and money in the gray tray as they rudely asked me  to. When I finally made it to the front with my personal belongings now out of sight and heading in a different direction, I started for the full body scan. I found a 1 dollar bill in my pocket, just one dollar bill. I pulled the one dollar bill out and held it somewhat discreetly in my hand.. As I went thru the last cattle herd hand rail I heard "NEXT" "NEXT." I stepped into the full body scan.and everything was fine, I was ready to exit and start my new life, but an astute TSA officer noticed part of the dollar bill in my hand and screaming started from all sides.

 

It was the rudest experience I've ever gone through. The officers even said things of personal nature such as " what's wrong with you" and "can't you read the signs" I tried to explain my situation to them and it was just a one dollar bill, but it was fruitless. I was told rather rudely "PUT THAT IN A BIN AND GET BACK IN LINE". Shoeless, head down, depressed, downcast, and dejected, People stared at me as they do when there is a bad accident off to the side on the highway. They're compelled to see the carnage.  I made my way to the end of the cattle fences. The rest of the herd looking at me with sympathy. By now all my money and other valuables on the conveyer belt have made it thru the scan and sitting with everyone else's bins who made it thru the line.

 

My valuables now sit in an open area at the end of the belt where everyone can walk-up and hopefully just pick-up their own valuables. I sullenly walk to the back of line now being eyed with suspicion from the other TSA and policemen in the area. I put my dollar in the bin and continued on my with the rest of the herd for another 45 mins. Fortunately for me there are still a lot of honest people on this planet I call home. by the time I made it past the US human missile defense system all my stuff was there. It also could have been all the rude officers in proximity to my valuables, but I like to think it was honest herd that day.

 

No officer earned my respect that day and we have a choice how we want to treat people, but I still complied. It's what makes the system work, the young girl and the two boys coming at the police officer did not comply. She didn't roll over and they didn't stay back. We continue to task police officers with no win situations and Monday morning QBing. Now this man has lost his job and whatever benefits came with it. Such as health care and it may have affected more than just him if he has children they will also now lose that health care because these people refused to get out of a pool they should not have been in to begin with..

 

 

 

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#8 sanctus

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 02:11 AM

Deepwater, I would have done exactly the same, comply but nothing more.

 

But back to the topic, I still think that this case is made way too big compared to all the other ones: I mean no one was even harmed here!! And this officer is losing his job for this while plenty of the others got acquitted of all charges...that is sad!!