amt7565 Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I find it easier to accept that GOD made this Universe than to think it was some event or accident. I am sure many of you will disagree. But for the sake of a theoratical discussion, let's assume that God did make the Universe 15 billion years ago- Would God have had to wait 15 billion years to witness full Human evolution (it's taken 15 billion years for the first life form to realize that we have a superior) OR Would he have done some kind of time travel such that, even though it has taken 15 billion years for Humans to fully develop, God, probably would have cut across a black hole or some other form of time travel in only a few moments? AMT- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I find it easier to accept that GOD made this Universe than to think it was some event or accident. I am sure many of you will disagree. But for the sake of a theoratical discussion, let's assume that God did make the Universe 15 billion years ago- Would God have had to wait 15 billion years to witness full Human evolution (it's taken 15 billion years for the first life form to realize that we have a superior) OR Would he have done some kind of time travel such that, even though it has taken 15 billion years for Humans to fully develop, God, probably would have cut across a black hole or some other form of time travel in only a few moments? AMT-Greetings amt7565; Before I pass this advice on to you, let me first say that I am also a believer and nobody will ever take that faith from me. Now, the advice: Don't espect to have an easy time of it when you talk about God at any science forum. As you and I both know, faith needs no proof, however at this forum, evidence is required when talking about anything scientific. I'll assume that this thread will most likely be moved to the strange claims forum, but don't let that discourage you. There are other believers here even if we may be in the minority. Have a good one, and keep looking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 If the universe was created by a god, he would by necessity not be a part of his creation. There is therefore reason to suspect that time and space would mean little to this god, so I suspect there would be more practical sides to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niviene Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I agree with Tormod, but I also am thinking that since God, if he exists in the way that Christians say he does, is everything, he would be time itself. I suppose that's the same answer, in a way, but I wanted to include Christianity's own rules to apply to it. Essentially I feel that if God exists, Time Travel would be a completely moot point, since he would be every point in both time and space, all at once. Implying that he would need to use a black hole or something is a little degrading of an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent being, in my opinion. What reason would a God have for waiting for humans to evolve? Well, this will probably go into a religion or philosophy and Humanities forum. I would suggest starting a thread there; it would be pretty interesting to debate, even though I think it might not have much dealing with science involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amt7565 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well my question is purely from a scientific point of view. If someone or something made the universe, then did he or it wait for 15 billion years or did he or it timetravel? And let's assume that God wanted to have fun and experiment not only with massive objets, but life forms as well. Since he made everything, then it's fair to imply that he was a Scientist. But like someone mentioned here...he is omnipotents, so he is everything. So timetravel was not necessary. Maybe he is behind evolution, maybe evolution is bogus....who knows.. AMT- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus00 Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well my question is purely from a scientific point of view. If someone or something made the universe, then did he or it wait for 15 billion years or did he or it timetravel? And let's assume that God wanted to have fun and experiment not only with massive objets, but life forms as well. Since he made everything, then it's fair to imply that he was a Scientist. But like someone mentioned here...he is omnipotents, so he is everything. So timetravel was not necessary. Maybe he is behind evolution, maybe evolution is bogus....who knows.. AMT- Lets make this clear: The question of wether or not some divine entity time traveled is not a scientifc one. Perhaps, the question of "is it possible for god to time travel" is scientific. Then again, gods aren't bound by natural law, so anything should be possible. Omnipotence. So then, the scientifc question was "could god have time traveled without breaking any of the natural laws he had just created?" But if we aren't violating natural laws, why posit a god? Instead we could ask "is time travel possible?" or to keep your question in context, "would it have been possible to time travel from the begining of the universe to a time when humans first arrived on the scene?" There is a lovely book on GR and time travel titled "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe" written for non experts. Some of it, I'm told, deals with time travel and the early universe. -Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amt7565 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I read that book by R Gott.Good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 nah no time travel would be needed, say he/she is a higher dimensional being in his n-dimensional 'space' then when he creates the universe it would exist as one spacetime so that when he/she 'looks' at it he/she would see all places and times at once... so he wouldnt need to wait around since time is only another dimension to his creation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well my question is purely from a scientific point of view. If someone or something made the universe, then did he or it wait for 15 billion years or did he or it timetravel? And let's assume that God wanted to have fun and experiment not only with massive objets, but life forms as well. Since he made everything, then it's fair to imply that he was a Scientist.Actually, she could never have been a scientist before she made everything, since that would be meaningless. There's nothing to investigate and explore! And even after she had created everything, she already knows how it works - why explore it as a scientist would? Perhaps she could try to figure out where she came from? Ah, if she's omnipotent she would know the answer. I hope that some day, some representative for whatever religion will ask her that question. They seem to know lots of things about god, curiously not where god came from. As for the time travel, it would not be necessary. I would think that if she had to create us, or life, or our solar system, she needed to create everything else in the universe. So, I suppose she had her hands full assembling all the hydrogen atoms, then to push them together to create stars. And we call those forces strong nuclear force and gravity. She needed to create stars as factories to produce the heavier elements. The question is: why not just create the heavier elements like the hydrogen was created? Ah, this feels like the question whether god can create a rock so heavy she can't lift it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well my question is purely from a scientific point of view. If someone or something made the universe, then did he or it wait for 15 billion years or did he or it timetravel? And let's assume that God wanted to have fun and experiment not only with massive objets, but life forms as well. Since he made everything, then it's fair to imply that he was a Scientist. But like someone mentioned here...he is omnipotents, so he is everything. So timetravel was not necessary. Maybe he is behind evolution, maybe evolution is bogus....who knows.. AMT-If God made the Universe, then what you're asking if God would hang around for 15 billion years, or if he would zip across time to the present. Firstly, that implies boredom. Granted, 15 billion years is a long wait - but then what's so special about the present? For all we know, the human form will only reach its peak in another million years before eventually dying off of mass-amusement.In which case God would have time-travelled past the present to a more interesting age, meaning that currently, there is no God.The principle of mediocrity would apply, meaning that there's nothing special about the present. But then human nature would also apply, explaining why we would want the present to be special in some way. It's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohaar818 Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I find it easier to accept that GOD made this Universe than to think it was some event or accident. I am sure many of you will disagree. But for the sake of a theoratical discussion, let's assume that God did make the Universe 15 billion years ago- Would God have had to wait 15 billion years to witness full Human evolution (it's taken 15 billion years for the first life form to realize that we have a superior) OR Would he have done some kind of time travel such that, even though it has taken 15 billion years for Humans to fully develop, God, probably would have cut across a black hole or some other form of time travel in only a few moments? AMT- Nice question. Now I have one for you...if this God you posit is so powerful and clever as to build the universe and slip through time..could he make a rock so big and heavy that even he couldn't pick it up?I mean...I'm just trying to get your scientific view.... -Zohaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chacmool Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Did God time travel? Yeah sure. He uses the sleigh pulled by Rudolph and the gang the 364 days it's not used by Santa Claus. And he is often accompanied by the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Elvis. Of course, I don't have any proof for this, I just believe ... :Alien: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amt7565 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Nice question. Now I have one for you...if this God you posit is so powerful and clever as to build the universe and slip through time..could he make a rock so big and heavy that even he couldn't pick it up?I mean...I'm just trying to get your scientific view.... -Zohaar Sorry I don't get the significance of this question:Now remember, I am only talking from a scientific standpoint, assuming someone designed our Universe....I am not pushing my beliefs on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Did God time travel? Yeah sure. He uses the sleigh pulled by Rudolph and the gang the 364 days it's not used by Santa Claus. And he is often accompanied by the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Elvis. Of course, I don't have any proof for this, I just believe ... :Alien: I was just wondering how long it would take before the sarcasm began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chacmool Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I was just wondering how long it would take before the sarcasm began. Not very long, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleMad Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I agree with Tormod, but I also am thinking that since God, if he exists in the way that Christians say he does, is everything, he would be time itself. God is EVERYTHING, including time. So when I sit down on the toilet and squeeze out a nice big, soft, greenish and filled with corn, stinky-as-hell floater, that's actually God coming out of my butt! :-) niviene 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amt7565 Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 God is EVERYTHING, including time. So when I sit down on the toilet and squeeze out a nice big, soft, greenish and filled with corn, stinky-as-hell floater, that's actually God coming out of my butt! :-) I don't think this forum has place for such trashy talk. It's disgusting and not funny at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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