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#1 BrettNortje

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 08:53 PM

This is quite new to me, but i want to see if i get the gist of it. i know other's can judge me on this, and i welcome it, and that is why i debate on such a public forum, to learn from lots of people.

 

All symbols have a meaning, and, if you understand the meaning behind them, you could also learn other languages and written forms of ancient languages. actually, i can read Hindi, Chinese and Arabic - you know, the cursive scrawl and the symbols? i find that learning the Hindi and the Arabic is very easy, as we can make out letters there, like cursive, and, know what the sounds are for them. this would be like a snake - a popular Egyptian symbol - would mean, under normal understandings, the letter j as in joke. wouldn't it be the letter s as in the sound it makes? or even sa? sa is a Hindi word of course. it translates more or less to wa in arabic, which is close by, so maybe it is related? then there are the chinese symbols. they make drawings of obvious types, like an 'open box' meaning that it is open, or, that it is beginning, yes?

 

But that isn't all we know about ancient cultures. we also know how they lived, and how they wanted to live. they wanted to be kings because then they wouldn't need to work, which is true today as well.

 

Now, if we were to strive for these same ideals today, we need to observe what moral absolutes are, some say they don't exist. i bet they do, and i will venture a few; everybody believed they are right in the end, everybody believes they are loved by at least someone, and everybody thinks they are a good actor when it comes down to it - that people find them impressive somehow.

 

With this in mind, how hard do you actually think archeology is? i suppose i would find it fun, but it is hot on digs.



#2 Eclogite

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:48 AM

Brett, while I applaud your enthusiasm,, I am somewhat overwhelmed by it. You seem to wish to talk about several topics that are only marginally related. This makes it difficult to engage in a discussion that will be of interest to all, but I'll give it a try.

 

At one time I could write about one hundred and fifty Chinese characters, but I've forgotten most. The evolution of the symbols is interesting. Of course understanding the meaning and development of the individual symbols is a different thing from learning the language the symbols are used in.

 

I think you need a lot more than the similarity of sound with wa and sa to suggest they are related.

 

we also know how they lived, and how they wanted to live. they wanted to be kings because then they wouldn't need to work, which is true today as well.

Are you sure? How do we know this? Do you think all or most people in most or all ancient cultures wanted to be kings?

 

i bet they do, and i will venture a few; everybody believed they are right in the end, everybody believes they are loved by at least someone, and everybody thinks they are a good actor when it comes down to it - that people find them impressive somehow.

In what way are these moral absolutes?

 

I don't believe I am "right in the end" about everything and I'm a fairly egotistical person. I'm confident that others, much more humble than myself, regularily doubt themselves.

 

The number of people who commit suicide suggests that at least some of them feel unloved.

 

I find some people impressive, but not because they are good actors. Some of them are very poor actors and fully acknowledge this.

 

With this in mind, how hard do you actually think archeology is? i suppose i would find it fun, but it is hot on digs.

As hard as any discipline that take years, even decades of study in order to master.

 

If you are investigating old Innuit settlements you are unlikely to be too hot.



#3 BrettNortje

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:06 AM

Brett, while I applaud your enthusiasm,, I am somewhat overwhelmed by it. You seem to wish to talk about several topics that are only marginally related. This makes it difficult to engage in a discussion that will be of interest to all, but I'll give it a try.

 

At one time I could write about one hundred and fifty Chinese characters, but I've forgotten most. The evolution of the symbols is interesting. Of course understanding the meaning and development of the individual symbols is a different thing from learning the language the symbols are used in.

 

I think you need a lot more than the similarity of sound with wa and sa to suggest they are related.

 

Are you sure? How do we know this? Do you think all or most people in most or all ancient cultures wanted to be kings?

 

In what way are these moral absolutes?

 

I don't believe I am "right in the end" about everything and I'm a fairly egotistical person. I'm confident that others, much more humble than myself, regularily doubt themselves.

 

The number of people who commit suicide suggests that at least some of them feel unloved.

 

I find some people impressive, but not because they are good actors. Some of them are very poor actors and fully acknowledge this.

 

As hard as any discipline that take years, even decades of study in order to master.

 

If you are investigating old Innuit settlements you are unlikely to be too hot.

 

People commit suicide because what they believe to be - being loved - seems to be awry, or, not making sense, no?

 

No, i do not always understand the exact tenses of foreign languages, but, when put together under a heading, or based on circumstance, it seems to make sense.



#4 Eclogite

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:06 AM

People commit suicide because what they believe to be - being loved - seems to be awry, or, not making sense, no?

Therefore your statement "everybody believes they are loved by at least someone" is clearly false. And I repeat my question - in what way can the beliefs you say people have be considered moral absolutes?



#5 BrettNortje

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 06:00 AM

Therefore your statement "everybody believes they are loved by at least someone" is clearly false. And I repeat my question - in what way can the beliefs you say people have be considered moral absolutes?

 

Moral absolutes are where the ideals of this person are found in all people.



#6 Eclogite

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 06:38 AM

Morals are about what people believe to be right and wrong. Moral absolutes are about the idea that morals are not dependent upon time, or place, or context; that something is either right, or it is wrong. I do not see how believing that someone somewhere loves you, or that thinking you are a good actor has anything to do with right or wrong. These are beliefs, or opinions and have no particular moral significance.

 

I think you are somehow confusing the idea of commonly held ideas with moral absolutes. (Although, I also challenge you on the notion that your examples are commonly held ideas.)



#7 BrettNortje

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 05:30 AM

Morals are about what people believe to be right and wrong. Moral absolutes are about the idea that morals are not dependent upon time, or place, or context; that something is either right, or it is wrong. I do not see how believing that someone somewhere loves you, or that thinking you are a good actor has anything to do with right or wrong. These are beliefs, or opinions and have no particular moral significance.

 

I think you are somehow confusing the idea of commonly held ideas with moral absolutes. (Although, I also challenge you on the notion that your examples are commonly held ideas.)

 

Please illustrate for me, with evidence, that there is someone out there that thinks nobody loves them?



#8 Eclogite

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:23 AM

Please illustrate for me, with evidence, that there is someone out there that thinks nobody loves them?

I see you choose to ignore the central point. The instances you have given are not moral absolutes because they have nothing to do with morals. Do you understand and accept this, or do you still claim they are moral absolutes. If so you have to justify that claim.

 

Now, as to the secondary matter as to anyone out their thinking no one loves them, at this point I have only anecdotal evidence.

 

1. I have sat with friends who have declared exactly that - that they were unloved.

2. I have seen in many documentaries individuals declaring that no one loved them.

3. I have stopped a young lady acquaintnce from hurling herself from a high rise apartment building because she was convinced no one loved her.

 

Have you had so little life experience that you have not run across similar situations?



#9 ErlyRisa

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:24 AM

Please illustrate for me, with evidence, that there is someone out there that thinks nobody loves them?

 

Man your like me on steroids or some sort of opiate (I haven't touched the stuff, but we have got to get together and smoke something!!!)

 

Yeah I wreckon I could do archeology/anthropolgy too ... all you need is a shovel!!!

 

Morally though: Would you enjoy it? , personally under my circumstances, anything better than what I am doing now would be enjoyable (with the exception of what I deem tobe against my morals)

 

I doo like digging though, especially for cool stuff. Watching it on TV though and doing real work is more moral though!!!

 

Have you heard of doing microbiological archeology? For example - what lived on our moustaches when we were still picking fruit? and as we whiped our mouths from the juices - did the micro organisms make thier way toward the V--inal tract? - It somewhat depends on the sexual revolution...I highly doubt it happened in the sixties b/c I am pretty sure the human body was not ready for it yet!!!!! :nahnahbooboo:  Personally if I were cave man I would have kissed a girls ()() ().() (.) for as long as I could hold my breath.

 

Nobody loves me: mainly b/c I treat everything as an object.



#10 ErlyRisa

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:38 AM

People commit suicide because what they believe to be - being loved - seems to be awry, or, not making sense, no?

 

 

 

You got it.

 

Love makes no sence to some people, and the part where suicide comes from is somewhat attributed to acknowledging that maybe once you did understand...and know that that time is gone. I think suicide/revenge/givingup are a result of knowing about ones self and not being able to come up with a reason for continuing your life.

 

I hate suicide and euthanasia: but it can make sense in the right setting sadly. Which makes you question bravery the afterlife and existence (well the living get too question it)

 

I always say though, no matter what don't do it --> take risks, but don't make the concerted effort too end or end others...The reminder of the feeling is not needed anymore.



#11 BrettNortje

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:15 AM

I see you choose to ignore the central point. The instances you have given are not moral absolutes because they have nothing to do with morals. Do you understand and accept this, or do you still claim they are moral absolutes. If so you have to justify that claim.

 

Now, as to the secondary matter as to anyone out their thinking no one loves them, at this point I have only anecdotal evidence.

 

1. I have sat with friends who have declared exactly that - that they were unloved.

2. I have seen in many documentaries individuals declaring that no one loved them.

3. I have stopped a young lady acquaintnce from hurling herself from a high rise apartment building because she was convinced no one loved her.

 

Have you had so little life experience that you have not run across similar situations?

 

Do you believe your mother loves you, or, your children or friends? people that commit suicide find that they believe that others are hiding from them, and hermits feel that nobody understands them. when a hermit denies you conversation, it is because they feel that you are not worth their time, as, they have heard that so many times before, yes? Social absolutes then, if you will.



#12 Eclogite

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:53 AM

Do you believe your mother loves you, or, your children or friends? people that commit suicide find that they believe that others are hiding from them, and hermits feel that nobody understands them. when a hermit denies you conversation, it is because they feel that you are not worth their time, as, they have heard that so many times before, yes? Social absolutes then, if you will.

I feel I am talking to a brick wall with you most of the time.

 

Firstly, thank you for finally acknowledging what was my central point - you were not talking about moral absolutes.

 

Secondly, it is completely irrelevant whether anybody loves me. I have never questioned that in this thread. I have questioned your unsupportable assertion that eveybody feels loved by someone. Can we now cut to the chase and hear you agree that is not the case? In short, will you agree that you have displayed a tendency in this thread to insist that what may be true sometimes is actually true all the time?



#13 BrettNortje

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 09:18 AM

I feel I am talking to a brick wall with you most of the time.

 

Firstly, thank you for finally acknowledging what was my central point - you were not talking about moral absolutes.

 

Secondly, it is completely irrelevant whether anybody loves me. I have never questioned that in this thread. I have questioned your unsupportable assertion that eveybody feels loved by someone. Can we now cut to the chase and hear you agree that is not the case? In short, will you agree that you have displayed a tendency in this thread to insist that what may be true sometimes is actually true all the time?

 

I contest that you believe that someone loves you, and, sometimes you look around to verify it?



#14 BrettNortje

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 12:34 PM

I have found a language i cannot read, check or polish or croatian or whatever!



#15 Eclogite

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 11:58 PM

I contest that you believe that someone loves you, and, sometimes you look around to verify it?

This is irrelevant. Why do you continually change the subject? It creates the impression that you are afraid of something.



#16 ErlyRisa

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 12:50 AM

Do you believe your mother loves you, or, your children or friends? people that commit suicide find that they believe that others are hiding from them, and hermits feel that nobody understands them. when a hermit denies you conversation, it is because they feel that you are not worth their time, as, they have heard that so many times before, yes? Social absolutes then, if you will.

 

Not worth their time: That is one of the variables that made my mother kill herself. From a scientific standpoint, we then got to watch whether she would turn to god/religion , and finally after enough effort and instantiation of justified states she killed herself. There was also the belief that the insurance money was going to help her offspring. (The insurance money was used by the husband for a sailing boat)

 

From an anthropological view point: If her life was observed again, say...250yrs from now, and due to what I see as psychiatry/psychology being the lingo that evolves into that future method of diatribe. She would be perceived as nothing more than a condition. (again, an entity that even in death is treated as a conversation piece - like a puppy)

 

Love (for her children - and husband [to an extent]), and having a moral set that did not fit with the standards of the day, killed her.

I call it murder by proxy: Her own family and environment pushed her b/c she wasn't as befitting of the environment. The husband was also the type that continues providing false promise to the spouse...and objectifying her (I am still unsure if the father has an ability to see himself).

 

As the offspring got too see all of this, and the dynamics that they lived through; they are now much as the father and treat life as nothing more than object exchanges (much like what robots would do). They no longer trust humanity.

 

As for acquirement of language - who cares! I know now that conversation is based on being able to observe. (God Complex) , it may be the case that some of us watch TV, or now we get to interact in fake lives...fame is what provides the many with a past time.

 

The other species on earth is the one that likes tobe creative (thinking it is so) - when you remove the ability for that species tobe creative you end up with a person that loathes the world.

 

Couple more months: and soon I will finally get too leave and be the hermit that I was always going tobe. Besides at least their is a challenge to be had: cause no offence lawyer is not a challenge, and actor I already loathe. I am going off todo what I ENJOY not what everyone else thinks I should.

 

PS: I know the mind of the murderer. This is what they want, and both of us know that their is no point to our existence other than fulfilling their orgasm. I AM THE PROVIDER - they are THE TAX MAN.


Edited by ErlyRisa, 22 January 2015 - 01:09 AM.


#17 BrettNortje

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 06:17 AM

This is irrelevant. Why do you continually change the subject? It creates the impression that you are afraid of something.

 

Well, you obviously share something in common with someone else, be it a home, a state or a planet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love

 

Biological models of sex tend to view love as a mammalian drive, much like hunger or thirst.[17] Helen Fisher, a leading expert in the topic of love, divides the experience of love into three partly overlapping stages: lust, attraction, and attachment. Lust is the feeling of sexual desire; romantic attraction determines what partners mates find attractive and pursue, conserving time and energy by choosing; and attachment involves sharing a home, parental duties, mutual defense, and in humans involves feelings of safety and security.[18] Three distinct neural circuitries, including neurotransmitters, and three behavioral patterns, are associated with these three romantic styles.[18]