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Edit: PLEASE, at least READ THE FAQ linked below. But I urge you to check out the entire site and even do some research of your own to both corroborate that info and to search for answers to your own questions.

 

So, by now you may have learned of a project called Solar Roadways. It was stared in 2006, has received funding from the FHA for the first two prototypes, and as of today(5/25), has raised more than a million dollars on indiegogo.com (linked below) to begin production. It only took a few days to raise that much.. People are excited. I think It has only just now gained more popular support because of their brand new, comically popular Youtube video titled, "Solar Freakin' Roadways." If you're familiar with the project, you may have already formulated some questions of your own. If not, please take some time to check the links I've included and let the creative juices flow. I know I spent hours brainstorming to myself, doing a little research, and trying to have real conversations with people on youtube. First, I urge you to check the FAQ (linked below) and see what has been answered by the project engineers, themselves, so that we can all start with the same updated information. The goal of this thread is basically to poke hole in the theory and to think of solutions. We have tons of questions to answer from large and small-scale social standpoints, to technical and engineering issues, environmental impacts, etc.. The applications of this technology are practically endless and every time I think I've found a reason why it wont work, I find that the answer is so simple and possibly solves a few problems of it's own. Some of my greatest concerns lie in the interactive capabilities of these smart roads, a lot of which require at least some engineering expertise, which I just don't have, and could take ages to research. So anyone with any knowledge on related topics is more than welcome to help guide the conversation.
 
Because of the endless number of sub-topics to discuss, I think some sort of organization is in order. Maybe BOLD titles to let others know what exactly your post pertains to, so that others could just scroll through and find what they're looking for. Also, possibly an initial compilation of all the most viable topics to be discussed, and then start to break them down once we have a greater understanding of exactly how much there is to be taken into account.
I'd appreciate any ideas on how to proceed.
I hope that this thread will unfold into many wonderful conversations.

 

Link to Indiegogo page:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways/x/7647661#activity

Link to their main webpage:

http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml

Link to the FAQ:

http://solarroadways.com/faq.shtml#index

Edited by Jewbacca92
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I saw this a few days ago. Pretty neat development. One question I have is what will it cost to install and then maintain? Also road work puts a lot of jobs on the table. Would this increase or decrease those jobs?

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I suppose we won't know anything about how much it will cost until the project developers conduct their own estimates. I suppose they are the only ones with all of that kind of information as of yet. Also, their contract with the FHA restricts them from releasing any of that info until July, when it expires. Maybe they'll release some rough numbers soon after. So don't believe people when they say that they're holding out on the costs as some kind of subterfuge. I do know that the prototypes they have now are extremely durable under almost all conditions which leads me to believe maintenance of the structural integrity of the units will be fairly infrequent. Here's an excerpt from the FAQ:

 

What kinds of things have you tested for during your contract with the Federal Highway Administration?

The biggest concern for testing was the structural integrity of our panels. We had to make sure that our panels had enough traction, strength, and toughness to support heavy trucks on our nation's highways.
 

We had our glass traction tested, load tested, and impact resistance tested at university civil engineering labs around the country. It passed all tests with flying colors.

 

How long will these Solar Road Panels last?

We're designing our panels to last a minimum of 20 years. Solar cells are the limiting factor: they can continue to work up to 30 years but they're at the end of their life cycle by then.

 

How much weight can these panels support? Semi-trucks get pretty heavy!

Originally, we were designing toward 80,000 pounds. That was supposed to be the maximum legal limit for a semi-truck. However, we live in logging country and a former logging truck driver informed us that they don't have scales in the woods and that he'd topped out at 124,000 pounds. So we decided that we should go for 150,000 pounds. We then learned that oil companies can get permission to move refinery equipment up to 230,000 pounds on frozen roads, so we decided to shoot for 250,000 pounds.

Both 3D Finite Element Method analysis and actual load testing at civil engineering labs showed that our Solar Road Panels can handle that and more.

 

Can your Solar Roadways handle army tanks?

Our current M1A2 Abrams tank weighs about 68 tons, or 136,000 pounds. That's a little over half of what our Solar Road Panels have passed load testing for.

When I was in the Marines, I was temporarily assigned to a supply company in Japan. I issued tank tracks with rubber "feet" which allowed the tanks to drive down the highways without causing significant damage to the asphalt. The Solar Roadways will have no problem handling a convoy of tanks!

 

How will you replace damaged panels in a highway?

Since our system is modular, repair will be much quicker and easier than our current maintenance system for asphalt roads. We've learned that in the U.S., over $160 billion is lost each year in lost productivity from people sitting in traffic due to road maintenance.

Each of the panels contain their own microprocessor, which communicates wireless with surrounding panels. If one of them should become damaged and stop communicating, then the rest of the panels can report the problem. For instance, "I-95 mile marker 114.3 northbound lane, third panel in, panel number A013C419 not responding".

Each panel assembly weighs 110-pounds. A single operator could load a good panel into his/her truck and respond to the scene. The panel could be swapped out and reprogrammed in a few minutes. The damaged panel would then be returned to a repair center. Think of how this compares to pot hole repair!

 

As for jobs, there are so many factors to consider. Like who makes the concrete, re-bar, road work machines, tractor tires.. all that stuff will either tank or expand into the new market. But then inversely, this is a BIG idea and with something this revolutionary, there will be so many complimentary ideas that spring from it, which will only give rise to all kinds of new products and, therefore new jobs. This tech could literally influence everything about how we proceed with tech development from here on out. A 21st century industrial revolution if you will.

Edited by Jewbacca92
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Sorry to be negative:

 

You have to change the tyres.

 

People forget that tyres "wear out" --> where do you think that rubber is.

 

Of course, I am sure everyone is working on that. I highly reccomend trying to come up with a completely different vehicle design (I guess over time, anything is possible)

 

 

 

Other problem:

Traffic: No point to doing it on high load roads - Only got sunlight on the road surface for 30% of the day.

 

 

I wreckon "tunneling" it all: ie Quality Solar Panels are not that heavy.

Imagine it all being covered - you won't have to worry about cleaning your car - heck, the roads could be lined with butiful artwork and trees.

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An interesting idea to say the least.

 

I don't know nearly as much about solar energy as I want to, but we have certainly have enough roads to put a dent in our energy needs if it works. 

I don't have criticisms as much as questions.

 

How much energy would they produce per mile of road?

How much would it cost per mile?

The panels may have a long life but do they lose effectiveness over time? Might a panel still work in 10 years but only produce 20% of the energy of new panels.

How many miles of them would be needed to cover 25% of our energy needs?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on this idea's parade by any stretch, I'd love to see these things work and replace fossil fuels. I just think these are questions that need answering.

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How much energy would they produce per mile of road?

How much would it cost per mile?

The panels may have a long life but do they lose effectiveness over time? Might a panel still work in 10 years but only produce 20% of the energy of new panels.

How many miles of them would be needed to cover 25% of our energy needs?

I believe this will answer most of your questions relating to energy production:

http://www.solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml

As I said before, we wont know anything about the costs until their contract with the FHA is up next month.

As for your concern about longevity, most panels will retain around 85% efficiency after 25 years.

http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

Edited by Jewbacca92
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Other problem:

Traffic: No point to doing it on high load roads - Only got sunlight on the road surface for 30% of the day.

 

 

I wreckon "tunneling" it all: ie Quality Solar Panels are not that heavy.

Imagine it all being covered - you won't have to worry about cleaning your car - heck, the roads could be lined with butiful artwork and trees.

Good point.. But your question about sunlight exposure has been answered for the most part, though an exact number has yet to be mentioned. Maybe 30% isnt worth installing solar panels on high traffic roads but I'll bet that by their new FAQ update, theyll have determined whether or not it's feasible. Also keep in mind that this system runs on a decentralized grid, so an areas power usage limit will not be determined by its solar power production. A decentralized grid offers more than just power management though..

 

I understand your system is a decentralized power grid. Why is that important?

 

Most energy systems are centralized, meaning they provide power from a central location and send it out via transmission lines over long distance, which leads to substantial loss. Such systems include nuclear power plants, coal-fired power plants, wind farms, large solar arrays, etc.

Centralized power plants create security risks for each country as they can be taken out by hackers, targeted by terrorists, etc. Entire sections of a country can be left powerless by such attacks.

A decentralized system such as ours offers much more security. Much of the power is used near the power source - i.e., driveways power homes, parking lots power businesses, etc. Excess power produced by our system can feed surrounding neighborhoods. This helps with security because if a terrorist detonates a bomb in the middle of a Solar Road and blows the road completely in half. Since both sides of the now damaged road still produce electricity, no one loses power. The decentralized power grid offers much needed national security.

 

I suppose covered roadways would be another option but, no offense, you really should have read the FAQ that I linked above http://solarroadways...faq.shtml#index ). Do you mean to keep the smart roadways but to just move the solar panels out into more direct sunlight and out from under cars? Also, im not sure I like the idea of having my view restricted. I have no answers but I think we'll probably still get enough sunlight. Assuming that this 30% number is an average for high traffic roads, high traffic roads still only account for a certain percent of all paved roads. Hell, we can just get an average number of vehicles that are on paved roads at any given time since the decentralized grid theory makes a particular areas power output irrelevant. I get the feeling that taking into account peak sunlight hours, average square mileage of pavement covered by vehicles, and natural and artificial stationary shade, itll still be overwhelmingly feasible. Besides, theres still shoulders, sidewalks, parking lots roof tops.. thats a lot of sunlight. Please read the section titled, " If a parking lot is full of cars or a highway has lots of traffic, how are they going to produce any energy?" Or better yet, please read the whole thing.

 

Also, in case your were talking about just building canopies, again, the FAQ:

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to just build canopies over the roads to hold the solar panels? That way, we wouldn't have to be able to drive on them?

 

No. It would be incredibly expensive as you would still have to pay for our current road systems. We plan to use the money already budgeted for roads for the replacement Solar Roadways. If we still had to build current roads plus pay for the canopies, the cost would likely be so high that taxes would have to be raised to cover it. And it would leave our highway system just the way it is - crumbling and antiquated. Imagine taking a family vacation on one of these roads. It would feel much like being in a covered parking garage with a roof right over your car! Then there would have to be pillars all along the road holding up the canopy, which would be unsightly and could lead to increased accidents.

 

In northern climates, you'd have to heat the canopies to prevent snow coverage from blocking the sun from the panels. If the heating elements were to ever fail for any reason, then the weight of the snow could cause the canopy to collapse onto the vehicles below. Unless there is an elaborate drainage system for the melted snow, it could drip onto the road below it, creating sheets of "black ice", causing untold accidents and deaths.

 

You would also lose most of the features of the Solar Roadways, such as being lit by LEDs for safer night driving. Northern states would still have the removal expense and the accidents caused by the unsafe road conditions. Almost all of the features of our concept would be lost: no smart grid would be created, roads would continue to be unintelligent, there would be no LED lights to make road lines and words so painting and repainting road lines would continue to be needed, pothole repair and the lengthy delays caused by maintenance would go on as usual, wildlife would continue to be killed on our highways etc. All of our other applications would be lost unless someone wanted to see sidewalks, parking lots, tarmacs or driveways covered by a canopy!

Edited by Jewbacca92
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I believe this will answer most of your questions relating to energy production:

http://www.solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml

As I said before, we wont know anything about the costs until their contract with the FHA is up next month.

As for your concern about longevity, most panels will retain around 85% efficiency after 25 years.

http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

 

 

According to one of the links I followed, it could potentially produce 3 times the amount of electricity we currently use (or used in 2009). Even if these numbers are off by 90% that's 1/3 of the power we use, still pretty impressive.

I suppose cost is a concern which may potentially be a problem when we know more.

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Unfortunately, if it were 90% off, 1/3 would eliminate many of the incentives that are driving this project forward. One of the biggest yet least recognized incentives being that we can sell all of our excess energy. Literally all of it. This is what makes implementation such a breeze. If, on average, a city produces 3x it's previous power, once a city has finished the project 1/3 of the way, they are already energy independent. Then, from there on out, they can sell all of their excess energy. The enormous profit from that is what is going to allow us to pay this off quickly and see immediate returns on the investment.

 

However, I still cant help but wonder if we should pursue some other form of alternative energy that can either produce waaay more or has some other kind of major benefits. For instance, without an energy crisis, we will have significantly less incentive to develop new forms of energy production, although it will still be happening just on a much smaller scale. My point is, I doubt we'll be going to space using solar energy.. I just hope we don't step in the way of other highly beneficial technologies. But still, this could create a race of sorts to see who will deliver the best power source before installation of smart roadways, because it is the smart roadway part that offers so many solutions to things unrelated to energy production.

Edited by Jewbacca92
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I'm not saying it is 90% off. I'm just saying if these things were only able to take care of 1/3 of our energy it would still be a great accomplishment. That would be more than nuclear power plants' contribution to our power. 

Also the 3 times number given is from 18.5% efficiency as opposed to the 44%+ they've reached in labs but "aren't cost feasible yet".

I would like to see some competition arise with this technology, multiple labs trying to come up with their own version of solar roadways, that often spurs innovation.

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Right, it totally would be, just probably not enough for anyone to justify spending so much money on it. Hah and yeah it's hard to believe that we can produce that much power with what is soon-to-be, has-been solar technology. Check out this link. http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/02/which-solar-panels-most-efficient/ According to this, we still have a long way to go before making 44%+ a possibility though. I would honestly be perfectly content if we jumped the gun a bit and just went with the 18.5% panels. Then in 25 years, recycle those and start building something even more incredible than 44% modules. After all, the tech will be much much cheaper then, and our economy will be kicking butt, making an upgrade a much less intrusive operation.

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Read it - http://solarroadways.com/faq.shtml

People arent forgetting, they're just not resurfacing previously solved issues.

 

 

This project isn't going to happen anytime soon... If ever. I doubt EVER.

 

Picking an isolated spot in a wasteland desert area and setting up a massive Solar shop is a much more feasible prospective.

China has done/is doing it in the XinJiang province

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/02/3110821/china-desert-solar/

 

I wouldn't shut down the Coal Powered plants here in America  just yet if you don't want skyrocketing electricity prices and further negative economic growth 

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And while a good idea, People forget the most obvious of realities aside from initial cost.... Vandalism and Theft. And then there is natural disaster/ Harsh weather maintenence and replacement.

What I hink Jewbacca is directing you to, Racoon, is the explanation that each Solar Roadway panel is a member of a peer-to-peer wireless network, so can be made made to send a distress call and report its position if stolen.
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I find the Brusaws awe-inspiringly, geek idols about who’s work I’m unworthy to comment, but commenting being the purpose of fora like hypography, won’t let that stop me. :)

 

The arithmetic of using roads as photovoltaic panels is, as the Brusaws’ webpages explain, is promising. I researched US road data, and along with basic astronomy, geography, photoelectric info, came up with figures more optimistic than theirs, estimating that US electric power needs (about 4.5 x 1011 W) would require only about 10[/sup]10[/sup] m2, about 1/6th of the US road area, and 1/11th of the “impervious surface” area the Brusaws mention.

 

What I find ominous about their Solar Roadway scheme is its likely cost. The FAQ pages say no more on this than “we are not yet able to give numbers on cost”, which as a person who estimates costs of projects in all stages from earliest conception to post-implementation, I recognize as near certainly meaning “our cost estimates are so terribly high we don’t want to talk about them.” If the cost is on the order of US$1000/m2, which I suspect it is, the cost of reaching my optimistic 1/6th conversion of roads to Solar Freaking Roadways at $10 trillion, about 25 times the cost of the US interstate highways system over its 35 years implementation (1957-1992)!

 

I have a basic technical concern as well. The SR system appears to be made of about 2’ wide hexagonal rigid glass tiles. Here's my favorite image of them:

(from Scot and Julie Brusaw, this wired.com article)

Each looks to be securely bolted to 4 studs set in a concrete pad.

 

When asphalt roads are undermined by water wash, freeze/thaw or other kinds of ground collapse, their dents are smoothed somewhat by vehicle tires. I worry that rigid tiles under such conditions would stick up their edges, which rather than being worn down by tires, would slam tires and vehicle suspensions, and question whether they would be better if they were flexible, using lower efficiency, lower cost, damage-tolerant flexible amorphous silicon solar panels.

 

I’m very enthusiastic about the idea of road and other load-bearing surfaces solar power, and admire the Brusaws’ hard-driving, prototyping approach, but think they may be taking a wrong path in their key choice of material and system design. Not only are amorphous solar panels flexible and damage tolerant, they’re easier to make than the higher efficiency polycrystalline kind they Brusaws’ have used in their prototypes, raising the possibility that they could be manufactured on or near site.

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I just think its better to see the homeimporvement market take this one on (in the driveway and in housing developments the roads could be surfaced in this stuff)

 

Main highways/roads for trucks and the so forth - its not going to work... I can list way too many negatives, best thing todo is try it out first in low load environments.

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