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What Would Be Proof Of A God Or Gods Running The Universe?


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#35 Rade

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

OP QUESTION IS : What Would Be Proof Of A God Or Gods Running The Universe?

It would take knowledge that God exists...all proof presupposes existence.
To exist is to posses Identity...so, it would take that we have knowledge of the Identity of God.
But, the Identity of God is that which no human mind can know...by definition.
Thus, the answer to the OP question is: No such Proof is possible.

Now, having said that, such Proof would be possible if humans could have knowledge of the positive Identity of God...so, who makes such a claim ?

#36 Guest_MacPhee_*

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

OP QUESTION IS : What Would Be Proof Of A God Or Gods Running The Universe?

It would take knowledge that God exists...all proof presupposes existence.
To exist is to posses Identity...so, it would take that we have knowledge of the Identity of God.
But, the Identity of God is that which no human mind can know...by definition.
Thus, the answer to the OP question is: No such Proof is possible.

Now, having said that, such Proof would be possible if humans could have knowledge of the positive Identity of God...so, who makes such a claim ?


Muslims claim to have got a positive identification - it's Allah.

#37 Rade

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

Muslims claim to have got a positive identification - it's Allah.

Yes. They make a claim but have no proof. The OP questions asks for proof, thus any claim must be backed by knowledge of the identity of Allah, but no Muslim would claim to have such knowledge.

Edited by Rade, 12 January 2013 - 05:56 PM.

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#38 Moontanman

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

OP QUESTION IS : What Would Be Proof Of A God Or Gods Running The Universe?

It would take knowledge that God exists...all proof presupposes existence.
To exist is to posses Identity...so, it would take that we have knowledge of the Identity of God.
But, the Identity of God is that which no human mind can know...by definition.
Thus, the answer to the OP question is: No such Proof is possible.

Now, having said that, such Proof would be possible if humans could have knowledge of the positive Identity of God...so, who makes such a claim ?



While I agree with your basic premise I have to admit I have been told by a great many god botherers they do indeed have that knowledge, of course the claim cannot be backed up in a way that is empirical or testable evident...

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

Yes. They make a claim but have no proof. The OP questions asks for proof, thus any claim must be backed by knowledge of the identity of Allah, but no Muslim would claim to have such knowledge.


Some Muslims might disagree.

They might claim that the existence of the Koran is - in itself - sufficient proof of the existence of Allah.
Because Allah personally dictated the Koran to his amanuensis - the prophet Mahommed.

Otherwise, where could the text of the Koran possibly have come from?

#40 Moontanman

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

Some Muslims might disagree.

They might claim that the existence of the Koran is - in itself - sufficient proof of the existence of Allah.
Because Allah personally dictated the Koran to his amanuensis - the prophet Mahommed.

Otherwise, where could the text of the Koran possibly have come from?



All religions make that claim about their ancient texts.. none of them can show it to be anything but a baseless claim...
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#41 Aethelwulf

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

I have often been asked what would it take to make me believe in a God, Gods, or Goddesses and i usually use the flippant answer of make the sun stand still in the sky or move planets around but if you really think about it advanced technology could conceivably do that.

Another idea is that if the universe really turns out to be not only life friendly but actually allows for FTL space travel but being life friendly and allowing for FTL space travel is also not proof of the divine.

But what if we find out that space travel is easy, FTL is easy, say some unknown zero point type energy allows for it and we find that not only are Earth like planets common but that they are truly Earth like down to the species of plants and animals we see on the Earth or have fossils of on the Earth and humanoid beings most of which are as human as we are dominate all those planets, much like the Star Trek Universe!

Now that to me would be, if not proof, then suggestive enough for me to believe there is a divine hand guiding the universe. The Star Trek Universe is a creationist universe!!!

What say you?


Being an agnostic, I don't actually believe we can prove a God exists, but I do think there is something like a God but not in any religious sense of the meaning. My God is not sentient, He doesn't care about the doings of mankind (nor did Einstein's God) nor can he change the laws of physics at any given moment (so He can't stop the sun in the sky).

#42 Guest_MacPhee_*

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

Perhaps God, if He exists, is subject to Mathematics. Even He can't make Pi an exact number. So much for His omnipotence, huh?