belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 http://www.frys.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=helicopter&cat=40244 how difficult would it be to add a swarm of helecopters to the next mars missioni can think of a few ideas for it also but the computer navigation would have to be really good while things like landing in high winds, and the lander being able to drive up the the helecopter, pick it up, clean it off, and recharge it would be neccisary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 http://www.frys.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=helicopter&cat=40244 how difficult would it be to add a swarm of helecopters to the next mars missioni can think of a few ideas for it also but the computer navigation would have to be really good while things like landing in high winds, and the lander being able to drive up the the helecopter, pick it up, clean it off, and recharge it would be neccisary Considering how thin the martian atmosphere is I doubt this would be possible. We cannot get a helicopter on earth to operate at a much higher density atmosphere. The martian atmosphere is only 1% of earths air pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) how about short burst, mini compressor "frog" with wings so it can glide Edited August 21, 2012 by belovelife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 how about short burst, mini compressor "frog" with wings so it can glide It might work, have to have big wings or be very small and light though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 well we have cameras light enoguh now, i think the biggest weight issue would be either the battery or the compressor, or air storage i guess a variety of them would be the answer from large to small but things like that cave that was found, would be difficult to get out of but you could send one in, and use the others as a data relay chain, then have the landers high poweer send the data to the mro or something but the rover would need to be able to control the frogs itself i bet 2 mini cameras could make it possible to get 3d perspective on the path and mabe a minni carbon fibre tank for the compressed gas but with all the dust on mars, the compressor would have to be made of something hard, so it wouldn't get damagedunless a mini air filtration system like ceramic could filter out the particles don't know too much about the details of engeneering a mini compressor, but i do know that they are power hungry i bet they would all need a solar pannel also with air compressor jets that can periodically clean the pannels else they would get covered with dust really fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 well we have cameras light enoguh now, i think the biggest weight issue would be either the battery or the compressor, or air storage i guess a variety of them would be the answer from large to small but things like that cave that was found, would be difficult to get out of but you could send one in, and use the others as a data relay chain, then have the landers high poweer send the data to the mro or something but the rover would need to be able to control the frogs itself i bet 2 mini cameras could make it possible to get 3d perspective on the path and mabe a minni carbon fibre tank for the compressed gas but with all the dust on mars, the compressor would have to be made of something hard, so it wouldn't get damagedunless a mini air filtration system like ceramic could filter out the particles don't know too much about the details of engeneering a mini compressor, but i do know that they are power hungry i bet they would all need a solar pannel also with air compressor jets that can periodically clean the pannels else they would get covered with dust really fast They might work, I don't think they would be as useful as you seem to think. We have orbiters around mars now that can resolves very small objects but landing on one of the deep hole like caves would be interesting for sure. Crawling around on the surface is more efficient than flying at looking at small things around you but you could cover more ground. Controlling the flyers would be your biggest obstacle, a crawler can move slowly and mistakes can be either avoided or corrected, flying machines are not as forgiving of mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) yeah, but a hopping machine cannot go too high and if it were to decend into a cave, there are a few options you could use that silk that the genetically modified goats make, then spin a thread as it decends into the caveyou could have a tank big enough to compress anough gas to decend slowlyyou could hope the iron content is high enough, and have it magnetically climb down a wall then again, you could have a small air bag, and have a tank with hydrogen or helium, and be able to switch the intake to compress the gas againthen after you reach the said cave, switch the compressor to the other tank, and flood the baloon with hydrogencompress little by little till it lands, then refill to get out there are so many options it has to be possible the thing is the pover would have to be smart enought to control it with limited data you could also have one with a mini laser, and a relay so if the one in the cave runs out of energy, they can send energy in a chain laser to solar pannel, laser to solar pannel, etc then a swarm would be able to go really far into caves limited only by the amount of curves that would prevent a direct line laser to recharge the batteries Edited August 21, 2012 by belovelife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 yeah, but a hopping machine cannot go too high and if it were to decend into a cave, there are a few options you could use that silk that the genetically modified goats make, then spin a thread as it decends into the caveyou could have a tank big enough to compress anough gas to decend slowlyyou could hope the iron content is high enough, and have it magnetically climb down a wall then again, you could have a small air bag, and have a tank with hydrogen or helium, and be able to switch the intake to compress the gas againthen after you reach the said cave, switch the compressor to the other tank, and flood the baloon with hydrogencompress little by little till it lands, then refill to get out there are so many options it has to be possible the thing is the pover would have to be smart enought to control it with limited data you could also have one with a mini laser, and a relay so if the one in the cave runs out of energy, they can send energy in a chain laser to solar pannel, laser to solar pannel, etc then a swarm would be able to go really far into caves limited only by the amount of curves that would prevent a direct line laser to recharge the batteries I to am interested in what is inside those caverns on mars, possibly a lander that could lower and hoist a another smaller rover down into the cavern would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 same issue, transmitting the data to the surface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 same issue, transmitting the data to the surface How so, the same cable used to lower it could also be used to transmit data couldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ?if it were a fibre optic cable connected to a laser that sent pulses to a surface transmitting system mabe but the lenght of the cable would bet in the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ?if it were a fibre optic cable connected to a laser that sent pulses to a surface transmitting system mabe but the lenght of the cable would bet in the way It would of course depend on how deep those holes are, on the earth they are only a few hundred feet deep but the ones on the earth are made by the erosion of flowing water. The existence of those holes is very suggestive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 i know, and if they go deep, like in kilometers deep, there may be heavier atmoshpere, liquid water LIFE but we would need alot of planning, say for instance we found one that was really deep, but we sent only enough of a swarm to get a certain distance in, then we would need to be able to send more, while the set chain maps the cave then when the new set arrives, it would have to be able to change batteries and other wise repair things like potential moisture and other corrosive conditions taken into consideration thats what i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 i know, and if they go deep, like in kilometers deep, there may be heavier atmoshpere, liquid water LIFE but we would need alot of planning, say for instance we found one that was really deep, but we sent only enough of a swarm to get a certain distance in, then we would need to be able to send more, while the set chain maps the cave then when the new set arrives, it would have to be able to change batteries and other wise repair things like potential moisture and other corrosive conditions taken into consideration thats what i think There is a valley on mars deep enough to allow liquid water if only briefly. It would be very interesting to know just how deep those pits really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 interesting thing, if we used a helium gas baloon concept, with a small fan to navigate, going distances would be relatively easy and once it lands and finds optimal line of laser connection to the next one in the chainit could be stationary and use its laser to map the cave at the gravity of mars, you wouldn't need a super big baloon either but it would have to be strong vs sharp rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) interesting thing, if we used a helium gas baloon concept, with a small fan to navigate, going distances would be relatively easy and once it lands and finds optimal line of laser connection to the next one in the chainit could be stationary and use its laser to map the cave at the gravity of mars, you wouldn't need a super big baloon either but it would have to be strong vs sharp rocks The only problem with that is that helium escapes rather fast from a balloon. It would have limited usefulness. The thin atmosphere would be a problem as well. Edited August 21, 2012 by Moontanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 thats where the frog like ability comes in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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