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The Truth Concerning Our Ignorance


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#35 dduckwessel

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:58 AM

Good points of view,from both sides. Although, I recently found out about a new religion called Cerebratoligy, that actually promotes science and free thinking. Promotes that the truth can be found by combining both science and religion. Chek it out http://www.churchofcerebratoligy.org


It's just another church (mission statement, congregation!!) they always start out nobly but just give it a few years and it will show its true colors, possibly turn into a cult...they need to correct the spelling error, interpitation (interpretation)!

#36 dduckwessel

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:25 AM


...despite the fact that the bible and it's revealed truths have been shown to be false.


Religion has been shown to be inconsistent and false but what if religion and the bible are in reality two very different things?

What would happen if an algorithm (not sure if this is the correct word as I have previously thought puzzle-paradigm fits better) was discovered in the words (must include some apocrypha)? Would people be interested in investigating it, or would it be shoved under the carpet for fear there may be something there afterall?

I'm not referring in any way to the Bible Code or to this:

http://news.yahoo.co...-163128454.html

I'm referring to an as yet undiscovered (by science) pattern of words.

Edited by dduckwessel, 03 October 2012 - 11:27 AM.


#37 Moontanman

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

Religion has been shown to be inconsistent and false but what if religion and the bible are in reality two very different things?

What would happen if an algorithm (not sure if this is the correct word as I have previously thought puzzle-paradigm fits better) was discovered in the words (must include some apocrypha)? Would people be interested in investigating it, or would it be shoved under the carpet for fear there may be something there afterall?

I'm not referring in any way to the Bible Code or to this:

http://news.yahoo.co...-163128454.html

I'm referring to an as yet undiscovered (by science) pattern of words.



The operative word here is IF if martians were real, if there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. If such a thing was discovered and it was real then you might have a point to speculate but I see no reason to blindly speculate about if's...

#38 dduckwessel

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:25 PM

The operative word here is IF if martians were real, if there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. If such a thing was discovered and it was real then you might have a point to speculate but I see no reason to blindly speculate about if's...


The operative thought is that it's not considered real until science has discovered it!!

#39 Moontanman

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

The operative thought is that it's not considered real until science has discovered it!!



Putting words in my mouth duck? I would say it's not considered real until science has confirmed it, your idea is not beyond possibility but it is not much more than the statement "what if there really is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow" Do we chase rainbows to confirm there is no pot of gold? Or do we study rainbows and conclude that due to the characteristics of rainbows finding the end of one is impossible and the pot of gold irrelevant?

Now I will admit if someone did indeed find such a thing as a code of some kind hidden inside the bible, (or any religious text for that matter and this code revealed things no one of the time could possibly know) then your idea would have to be taken seriously. I assume we would have to have the original texts for this to be possible and since we do not have anything remotely resembling the original text... Seriously the idea of looking for such a code in the ramshackle collection of twice told tales about myths of god is less compelling than chasing the end of an ever moving rainbow.

Show me the original biblical text, not some copy of a copy translated from one language to another and copied yet again in a demonstrably changed and edited book, the original text as written and then you might pique the interest of some code freak enough to look but since we do not have such a text about any religion much less the Abrahamic one what you suggest isn't even as compelling as chasing rainbows...

As for it being swept under the carpet... I would be willing to bet that would depend on what it revealed and what the agenda of the person who discovered it was but if it was a real scientist I would bet it would not be kept hidden no matter what it said...

#40 dduckwessel

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:53 PM

Putting words in my mouth duck? I would say it's not considered real until science has confirmed it, your idea is not beyond possibility but it is not much more than the statement "what if there really is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow" Do we chase rainbows to confirm there is no pot of gold? Or do we study rainbows and conclude that due to the characteristics of rainbows finding the end of one is impossible and the pot of gold irrelevant?

Now I will admit if someone did indeed find such a thing as a code of some kind hidden inside the bible, (or any religious text for that matter and this code revealed things no one of the time could possibly know) then your idea would have to be taken seriously. I assume we would have to have the original texts for this to be possible and since we do not have anything remotely resembling the original text... Seriously the idea of looking for such a code in the ramshackle collection of twice told tales about myths of god is less compelling than chasing the end of an ever moving rainbow.

Show me the original biblical text, not some copy of a copy translated from one language to another and copied yet again in a demonstrably changed and edited book, the original text as written and then you might pique the interest of some code freak enough to look but since we do not have such a text about any religion much less the Abrahamic one what you suggest isn't even as compelling as chasing rainbows...

As for it being swept under the carpet... I would be willing to bet that would depend on what it revealed and what the agenda of the person who discovered it was but if it was a real scientist I would bet it would not be kept hidden no matter what it said...


Thanks for the reply...why do we have to have the original texts though? I'm confident the existing ones will work fine. If an algorithm was developed that can decipher individual handwriting then one can be developed to recogise patterns of repetitious information (which if I'm correct will reveal a single author).

#41 Moontanman

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

Thanks for the reply...why do we have to have the original texts though? I'm confident the existing ones will work fine. If an algorithm was developed that can decipher individual handwriting then one can be developed to recogise patterns of repetitious information (which if I'm correct will reveal a single author).



A single author? I know of no one who would say that the bible has one author, in fact most of it thought to have been borrowed from other cultures around at the time compiled by several different authors. We would need the original texts due to errors in translations and editing by modern authors.

#42 Eclogite

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

The only single author claimed for the Bible is God. I think, if he exists, that there is sufficient evidence of his creativity that we should not expect patterns to emerge in his writing. B)

#43 dduckwessel

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:30 PM

A single author? I know of no one who would say that the bible has one author, in fact most of it thought to have been borrowed from other cultures around at the time compiled by several different authors. We would need the original texts due to errors in translations and editing by modern authors.


I know, it's a huge claim and you're right, one that needs to be confirmed but I make it based on years of study. According to the link I sent you the algorithm identified individual writers (those that penned the words) and synonyms (an important component of my own studies). They believe it shows the Bible had different authors. However, it didn't even mention the repetitive aspect, which is the main component to the puzzle effect [all of the writers wrote the same words sometimes verbatim but mostly uniquely rephrased (in ways inconsistent with human writing)]. I have painstakenly over the years put some of the puzzle together but the job is monumental especially as many books from the apocrypha have to be included as they contain the same writing style. I was really excited to read about this algorithm because from there it's a step closer to the one that isolates the repetitive aspect, which I am ocnfident will reveal a single author. I have contacted the university and hope to hear from them. Thanks for your time Moontanman. :)

#44 dduckwessel

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

The only single author claimed for the Bible is God. I think, if he exists, that there is sufficient evidence of his creativity that we should not expect patterns to emerge in his writing. B)


The writings are the very place that should show evidence of a superior (to us) mind.

If you're speaking of the earth as being God's creativity it's not a good example of benevolence: animals eating other animals and we eat them, mass starvation, wars, disease, an unfriendly universe, etc.!!

#45 Moontanman

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:57 PM

The writings are the very place that should show evidence of a superior (to us) mind.

If you're speaking of the earth as being God's creativity it's not a good example of benevolence: animals eating other animals and we eat them, mass starvation, wars, disease, an unfriendly universe, etc.!!



I am curious dduck, exactly what about the bible reveals a superior mind? The fact that it is a compilation of various myths about god and what was believed about god 2500 years ago? Even if it was shown to be written in the style of one voice how would that show us anything? The bible contains no factual information beyond the abilities of nomadic sheep herders and contains a huge amount of stuff that is demonstrably not true and some things that are flat out impossible...

#46 dduckwessel

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:55 AM

I am curious dduck, exactly what about the bible reveals a superior mind? The fact that it is a compilation of various myths about god and what was believed about god 2500 years ago? Even if it was shown to be written in the style of one voice how would that show us anything? The bible contains no factual information beyond the abilities of nomadic sheep herders and contains a huge amount of stuff that is demonstrably not true and some things that are flat out impossible...


I agree that from a surface veiw it appears as a jumble of contradictions but so do puzzle pieces that are incorrectly assembled! We would be incapable of imitating the unique "style"...I suppose with today's technology it might be possible for computers to replicate it but that would not explain how people thousands of years ago could! You seem to see the bible strictly as a religious book whereas I view it as ancient texts not yet deciphered but with algorithm technology I believe it's very close.

#47 Moontanman

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:44 AM

I agree that from a surface veiw it appears as a jumble of contradictions but so do puzzle pieces that are incorrectly assembled! We would be incapable of imitating the unique "style"...I suppose with today's technology it might be possible for computers to replicate it but that would not explain how people thousands of years ago could! You seem to see the bible strictly as a religious book whereas I view it as ancient texts not yet deciphered but with algorithm technology I believe it's very close.



I am curious, why would you think god would write a book that appears to be horse feathers but contains a complex code?

#48 blamski

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

why would god even write a book? wouldn't he just say "let there be a big leather-bound book with lots and lots of very thin pages that's called the bible...."?
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#49 dduckwessel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:12 AM

I am curious, why would you think god would write a book that appears to be horse feathers but contains a complex code?


If it didn't contain a complex code you would say it was horse feathers!!

#50 dduckwessel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:37 AM

why would god even write a book? wouldn't he just say "let there be a big leather-bound book with lots and lots of very thin pages that's called the bible...."?


there's no magic wand...something to do with free will and not interfering with things here

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

there's no magic wand...something to do with free will and not interfering with things here


Stephen King's novels beat the Bible hollow for plot, characterisation, style, vocabulary, and insight into human nature. So why read the Bible? What has it got that King's novels lack?

Is it - the promise of eternal life?