What is the role of public education?

[Queso]

what's the tracking system...? because i hate that too. my memory, when it comes to schoolwork ESPECIALLY ALGEBRA, is horrible. i'm a senior and i still havn't passed algebra.

[Fishteacher73]

what's the tracking system...? because i hate that too. my memory, when it comes to schoolwork ESPECIALLY ALGEBRA, is horrible. i'm a senior and i still havn't passed algebra.

 

 

Do you like puzzles, orb? Just look at an equation as a puzzle. Just get your vaiable on one side and your constant on the other.

[Fishteacher73]

... I'm interested to hear what everyone thinks about implementing the 'tracking' system in schools.

 

I am not familiar with that specific term. Are you speaking of the standardization (via state testing, etc) of education? I am not really for this...I'm sitting here today watching 30 kids scratch their heads and vomit out a years worth of math education in 60 questions...I love the TAKS........

[Fluffy]

Tracking is when students are placed in advanced, remedial, or 'slow' tracks (I don't remember the exact term for the slow track). They take classes in their respective tracks. I'm not sure this sort of system is implemented much in the US but I've heard that it works well for the advanced students but the slower students don't get the quality education that the remedial and advanced students get. Also, the slower and remedial aren't given much of a chance to to move up in tracks.

[Fishteacher73]

This system was in place when I was in school, but it has fallen out of favor in many places. In Texas, they use what is called mainstreaming. Most students take the same class (There are advanced classes [usually only one or two for the highest achievers] and remedial classes [usually for those that are on the very low end, sub 80 IQ]). This also applies only to math and english (some schools have mandatory reading, other as an elective). Science classes as well as history classes are all one track, and involve all students with the exception of the profoundly hampered. Those that need extra help are offered specific amounts of time in a specialized learning lab(MAC, Mastery And Comprehension, where the student has more one-on-one time with an instructor that can help explain specific issues to the student).

 

This has some advantages (usually slanted more to the lower spectum of student) and a lot of disadvantages, IMO (Slanted at the advanced students, that get bored and are not challenged).

[lindagarrette]

This system was in place when I was in school, but it has fallen out of favor in many places. In Texas, they use what is called mainstreaming. Most students take the same class (There are advanced classes [usually only one or two for the highest achievers] and remedial classes [usually for those that are on the very low end, sub 80 IQ]). This also applies only to math and english (some schools have mandatory reading, other as an elective). Science classes as well as history classes are all one track, and involve all students with the exception of the profoundly hampered. Those that need extra help are offered specific amounts of time in a specialized learning lab(MAC, Mastery And Comprehension, where the student has more one-on-one time with an instructor that can help explain specific issues to the student).

 

This has some advantages (usually slanted more to the lower spectum of student) and a lot of disadvantages, IMO (Slanted at the advanced students, that get bored and are not challenged).

I attended a private school in Venezuela. It was unusual and turned out good for me. Grades were not as important as learning and students were not pushed into courses beyond their ability. They could take calculus and physics if they wanted to but there were also skill related courses. It was my impression that the tracks were set up to facilitate preparation for college or vocational school. I didn't pay much attention at the time, I just read books.

[zadojla]

In my daughter's high school, most academic courses exist on three levels; honors(smart kids), college prep(regular kids), and academic(stupid kids). The parenthetical terms are the ones the kids themselves use, so they are not deceived by the politically correct terms. Kids are not tracked, but each year, their teachers recommend what level they should be at next year. A kid could be at honors level in English, and remedial level in math, and regular level in history.

Scheduling issues can intervene. Last year, my daughter should have been in honors English, but it conflicted with honors German, so she took regular English and was not challenged in any way.

The perception of the kids is that the regular kids get a good education, and the honors and remedial kids don't.

[Fluffy]

In my daughter's high school, most academic courses exist on three levels; honors(smart kids), college prep(regular kids), and academic(stupid kids). The parenthetical terms are the ones the kids themselves use, so they are not deceived by the politically correct terms. Kids are not tracked, but each year, their teachers recommend what level they should be at next year. A kid could be at honors level in English, and remedial level in math, and regular level in history.

Scheduling issues can intervene. Last year, my daughter should have been in honors English, but it conflicted with honors German, so she took regular English and was not challenged in any way.

The perception of the kids is that the regular kids get a good education, and the honors and remedial kids don't.

This is pretty much what I was trying to articulate :)

 

How do you feel about your daughter being in a system like that? ( I'm picking up a bit of dislike but is it enough to make you willing to transfer schools?)

[gubba]

G'day Fishteacher et al,

 

as a frantic parent of a strong minded adolescent, I'm only known in HER school community as Nikki's dad, I'd guess I'm obsessively interested in your topic. I suspect that regardless of our individual hopes and aspirations for ourselves and/or our progeny, public education will always remain primarily focussed on servicing, however effectively,the perceived educational DEMANDS of its community. Upon reflection and despite sympathising with many of Irish Eyes' ideals, I don't believe I'd want it any other way. The values of our various public systems almost certainly reflect many of their communities' educational myths, both official and communal. Around here, amongst the poorer families of our area for example, school is the much awaited free child care so mum can get more work and for the kids the playground is, at the very least, a major centre for their socialisation. Education, classroom activities as such are simply largely irrelevant, especially, even now in the 21st cent!, for the girls. The best one can hope for amongst the more responsible of the parents, in the way of involvement, is their constant admonishment to "mind the teacher or it'll be the worst for you" or more hopefully "do your best, you don't wanna end up where I am". Amongst the addicts, both booze and illicit, forget it!

 

Though the poor are definitely in the minority, they still represent a significant proportion of our locale and their kids make up an even larger proportion of our school population due to our middle class parents' ever increasing propensity to send their kids to alternatives to our public schools. Surely these local kids deserve the best we as a community can provide? How this can be achieved for the average school, I have no firm sense of direction, yet perhaps my eldest daughter' s situation maybe indicative of one possible way.

 

In her last years at primary(elementary?) school Nikki became increasingly rebellious and disenchanted with school and unfortunately had plenty of mates due to the situation described above. The only subjects she showed any interest in were Art, Music and telling stories in English. As she showed signs of musical ability, we were advised to send her to the nearest secondary school that specialised in music. For Nikki, it was the best thing we could have done! Not only is her muscianship approved of by her teachers it has given her street cred amongst those of her fellow students she most admires and she can now show off and seek her place amongst her peers in positive rather than purely negative ways. Now in her second year she is already in the intermediate and senior school ensembles on three different instruments as her musicality has blossomed in such a stimulating and nuturing environment.

 

She still gets into strife with school rules, shows no interest in her academic subjects (she passes solidly if not brilliantly) to the disgruntlement of her classroom teachers who are all convinced that she can and should do better, yet she is settling down much more and very rarely confronts us with her hatred of teachers as she was increasingly doing in late primary.What all this may signify I'm much too close to objectively assess so will leave to others if they wish. All I sometimes wish is that every child could be given such an opportunity for socially validated self-development, even if they happen to fall somewhat outside the standard stereotypes. cheers gub.

[gubba]

G'day zadojla,

 

I can't help it, but, has any other aussie asked, what ya doin' wid a wombat? I didn't realise they could be exported! Sorry for this total digression from the thread, yet "wombat" used to be one of my nicknames in my younger days for reasons we don't have to go into, so I can't help but be intrigued. cheers gub.

[zadojla]

How do you feel about your daughter being in a system like that? ( I'm picking up a bit of dislike but is it enough to make you willing to transfer schools?)

I prefer tracking, and the larger the school, the better it works. In any event, this is New Jersey, USA. If she doesn't go to the local high school, I would be forced to move, or pay tuition to go somewhere else.

[zadojla]

G'day zadojla,

 

I can't help it, but, has any other aussie asked, what ya doin' wid a wombat? I didn't realise they could be exported! Sorry for this total digression from the thread, yet "wombat" used to be one of my nicknames in my younger days for reasons we don't have to go into, so I can't help but be intrigued. cheers gub.

I like wombats. I've never actually met one in person, so I don't know how bad they smell. I like echidnas, too. Probably the same as an Aussie who liked raccoons and armadillos.

Off topic, my daughter's high school band hosted some band kids from Haileybury College in Melbourne last week for three days. All boys, very nice kids. I still have to try the vegemite our kid gave us.

[Fishteacher73]

I still have to try the vegemite our kid gave us.

 

No, you don't...... :)

[Fluffy]

I prefer tracking, and the larger the school, the better it works. In any event, this is New Jersey, USA. If she doesn't go to the local high school, I would be forced to move, or pay tuition to go somewhere else.

I agree, I think tracking would work best in bigger schools because it would lead to smaller class sizes, which is correlated with a better learning environment :)

[zadojla]

No, you don't...... :)

So my daughter says, who visited Australia four years ago. She thought it was nasty, but she tried several unusual meats like kangaroo and camel. She though kangaroo was delicious and camel rubbery and gross. She also noted that the KFC's did not give you biscuits, or even know what they were asking for.

[Buffy]

I still have to try the vegemite our kid gave us.

No, you don't......:)

So my daughter says, who visited Australia four years ago. She thought it was nasty...

Gubba'll tell ya, after four years on the shelf the stuff is probably "nicely aged"...

She also noted that the KFC's did not give you biscuits, or even know what they were asking for.

That's cuz in English-speaking countries (as opposed to American-speaking), "biscuits" are what we call crackers...

 

Crikey!

Buffy

[Fishteacher73]

The number one factor I feel is class size. At any teaching level you are really only hitting at about 10%. For about 45% you are too slow and for 45% you are too advanced. Factor in that people learn in various methods, so your actual hit % could be drastically less. With more one-on-one time you can address each students's specific needs and allow them to be successful in learning.