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Teaching aids for Darwin-- for religiously challenged Yanks.


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#1 Michaelangelica

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 04:56 AM

The Rap Guide to Evolution
Science Show
LISTEN NOW DOWNLOAD AUDIO (25.1 MB


#2 HydrogenBond

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 11:24 AM

Evolution deals with the process of change within the living state. Although this is much more scientifically based than Creationism, it does not mean this is the only scientific explanation for this process of change. Relative to Creationism, evolution is easy to contrast and compare. But relative to other scientific explanations, it has tendency to pitch itself in a dogmatic way, as the only true religion.

The analogy is comparing a jock to a geek. Under that contrast, any jock can look like a star athlete. But this does not mean this particular jock will win the Olympics. But as long as it compares itself to the geek, one might get this impression. Evolution, as it, is still called a theory and not a law of science. The more objective people within science are leaving their options open. But how many young people think evolution, as is, is a law or the final done deal. It is important to indoctrinate young before thinking appears.

Let me give an evolutionary scenario to think about. Say we begin with a herd of animals. The process of speciation begins, where some of the offspring begin to show signs of a speciation change. How does evolution assure that these new critters become a new species. If we use the existing breeding order, old school may have the advantage causing reverse-breeding. The dominant male may be the best of the old species, assuring its survival, but may not reflect the genetic needs of speciation change.

For example, the Saber Tooth Tiger would kick butt on a modern tiger. If the modern tiger began to speciate, from the saber tooth, the dominate males of the territory should still be the saber tooth tiger. Wouldn't this breeding back add older genetics. Yet the modern tiger species ends up surviving.

One way to explain this is, birds of a feather flocking together. The dominate old school males may contribute to this, by driving the new species away simply, because they appear different. The species change make it sort of the ugly duckling, that may look and smell different from all the rest. This would assure the core group survives and evolves the normal slow boat way. It also gives the new species a better chance to take root, by separating and concentrating the new apart from the old.

Science assumes the pre-humans evolved from apes. Data also indicates the earliest pre-humans migrated northward out of Africa. They were the ugly ducklings, driven away by the stronger old school apes which then follow slow boat evolution.

#3 BrianG

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 11:46 AM

I find prejudice against Americans for religious beliefs, offensive. It's not even true, the Rap was commissioned by a Brit, the performer is a Canadian and it's performed at Cambridge University.

America was founded by the desire for religious freedom. Our record of religious tolerance puts most countries to shame. At least religious people know they have a faith based belief, as opposed to some leftists who think "science says" is as good as experimental proof.

Isn't there a better way to discuss this issue?

#4 pamela

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 11:54 AM

I find prejudice against Americans for religious beliefs, offensive. It's not even true, the Rap was commissioned by a Brit, the performer is a Canadian and it's performed at Cambridge University.

I find it offensive as well but I also find attacks upon atheists, agnostics and science lovers to be uncalled for.

America was founded by the desire for religious freedom.

Religious freedom not only encompasses choice of religious affiliation but also freedom from it

Our record of religious tolerance puts most countries to shame.

Oh boy........
Brian, don't even get me started unless you are going to provide the data to back that up. And in doing so, state your definition of tolerance. I have seen way to much in my lifetime here in the U.S. to know that many of the religious no matter what the belief, are extremely intolerant on many levels.

At least religious people know they have a faith based belief, as opposed to some leftists who think "science says" is as good as experimental proof.

Expound on this statement. I do not want to attempt an assumption here.

Isn't there a better way to discuss this issue?

With facts, data and no emotion.

#5 BrianG

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 01:23 PM

...
Brian, don't even get me started unless you are going to provide the data to back that up. And in doing so, state your definition of tolerance. I have seen way to much in my lifetime here in the U.S. to know that many of the religious no matter what the belief, are extremely intolerant on many levels...


I believed that too, until I traveled outside the USA. Here in Germany the history of religious intolerance is infamous. I don't think any other country can compete with Nazi religious intolerance. I've visited Saudi Arabia, where practicing any religion but Islam is forbidden. France hasn't done a very good job of integrating minority religions into society and there is significant social unrest is a result. Hundreds of cars torched in France at New Year | Reuters

My definition of intolerance starts with the extreme of genocide, and works back toward mere public policy of suppressing religious practice and religious litmus tests for public office. In my opinion, Americans don't know how lucky they are. Not every country has freedom of religion enshrined in their constitution, or constitutional rights, for that matter.

Leftists believe in humanity, they believe people are basically good, government institutions are flawed, but with the correct political structure that can be overcome to create an ideal state. The Judeo-Christian belief is man is basically flawed and therefore government will always tend toward corruption, so individual rights must be protected from government and different branches of government might hold other branches in check. These are both religious beliefs, but religious people understand "the bible says" won't win an argument.


People are responsible for their actions, beliefs are internal and should not be judged by others. I believe atheists and agnostics are as entitled to their beliefs, as any organized or unorganized religion.

#6 Moontanman

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:09 PM

In my opinion, Americans don't know how lucky they are. Not every country has freedom of religion enshrined in their constitution, or constitutional rights, for that matter.


Well in my opinion, having to fight with religion to keep religion from being taught as science is not freedom of religion. Having to fight to keep religion from being forced down our throats at every turn is not freedom of religion. fighting with the religious to keep those freedoms enshrined in our constitution is not freedom of religion. In my opinion you do not know what you are talking about. No one disrespects freedom of religion more than the religious, science does not go out and try to teach Sunday school, no scientists are trying to make sure what is being preached from the pulpit is even close to being the truth. Does Germany have a state religion? Do you have to worry if your kids are going to be taught creationism in school? Why would creationism be taught if not astrology or numerology? They both have a similar basis in reality. Last i heard Nazi's were no longer in power in Germany, do we have freedom of religion in the USA? Yes we do, but it's not because the religious want it to be that way, in my opinion.

#7 Donk

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:22 PM

I found THIS LINK interesting. Is it typical of the US armed forces?

#8 Moontanman

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:29 PM

If my pagan friends are any guide yes this is typical, to keep from being harassed you have to pretend to be a Christian. Kinda sad really, when the bullets are flying you would think not being the enemy would override not being the correct religion.

#9 lemit

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 09:41 PM

The Judeo-Christian belief is man is basically flawed and therefore government will always tend toward corruption, so individual rights must be protected from government and different branches of government might hold other branches in check. These are both religious beliefs, but religious people understand "the bible says" won't win an argument.

If the Judeo-Christian tradition isn't based on the Bible, then I wasted my childhood in Bible School and Sunday School. "The [B]ible says" must always be the basis for an understanding of our Christian tradition, because that tradition is embodied in the Bible and nothing else. There is no written or spoken tradition that trumps the Holy Bible. It is the word of God. If you really think "'the bible says' won't win an argument" then you aren't much of a Christian.

Assuming you are enough of a Christian to believe in the Holy Bible, I'd remind you of a couple citations, one well-known, the other less so, but both, I think, appropriate.

Mark 12:17: And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.


II Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanliness, and despise government. Presumptious are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.



#10 BrianG

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 02:50 AM

... Does Germany have a state religion? Do you have to worry if your kids are going to be taught creationism in school? Why would creationism be taught if not astrology or numerology? They both have a similar basis in reality. Last i heard Nazi's were no longer in power in Germany, do we have freedom of religion in the USA? Yes we do, but it's not because the religious want it to be that way, in my opinion.


German schools don't teach creationism, but there are religion courses in school. Parents select Catholic, Protestant or agnostic ethics sections. The state subsidies churches with tax money.

#11 JMJones0424

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 03:26 AM

I found THIS LINK interesting. Is it typical of the US armed forces?


Donk- The armed forces, like any other large collection of widely diverse people, has a small minority of people who commit stupid acts. If the scenario listed at that site had happened in any of the units I had been in, and the victim had talked to his superiors, the perpetrator(s) would have been immediately disciplined. That this did not happen may be indicative of a failure in unit command, but should not be construed as an over all trend.

I find the fact that some specialist would name the Secretary of Defense in a lawsuit laughable, and the implication that friendly fire incidences are routinely intentionally committed offensive. Sometimes Hollywood is not the best source of information.

#12 BrianG

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 03:40 AM

... If you really think "'the bible says' won't win an argument" then you aren't much of a Christian...


While it's true, I'm not much of a Christian, you're missing the point of my argument. The context of the paragraph was arguments on political discourse, not religious doctrine. I should have been more explicit.

#13 Michaelangelica

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:48 AM

Sorry i have offended your delicate sensibilities brianG.
For someone so positive you seem easily offended.

My intention in posting this in "pedagogy" was to suggest to US science teachers, and others, who have problems teaching evolution to their students that this song/talk may be a useful tool. Just as i recently posted a good periodic table site.
I have read often of the attempts by religious fundamentalists in the US to disparage Darwin.

It is unfortunate that Yanks believe their own advertising. If it were not for the many High Court cases bought against the US Government by the Seventh Day Adventists in the last fifty to sixty years their would be little religious freedom in the USA.

In my county belief in God runs at about 64% whereas in the States, i am told, this figure is above 90%. Strangely, to Yanks, my government supports religious schools of all denominations with both Federal and State funding (loads of it).

#14 BrianG

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:45 AM

Yet "the Rap was commissioned by a Brit, the performer is a Canadian and it's performed at Cambridge University", the only thing that connects this to Yanks, is your prejudice. I'm glad wherever you live, no one disparages Darwin, you must live in an enlightened state.

#15 Michaelangelica

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:16 AM

Yet "the Rap was commissioned by a Brit, the performer is a Canadian and it's performed at Cambridge University", the only thing that connects this to Yanks, is your prejudice. I'm glad wherever you live, no one disparages Darwin, you must live in an enlightened state.

God Brian you can make an argument about anything. Try to get out more. I know Yanks have little sense of humour but i think you have been in Germany too long
Do you need to be so prickly , and take offense so easily?
Please note my use of B) in most of my posts.

#16 Michaelangelica

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:20 AM

I found THIS LINK interesting. Is it typical of the US armed forces?

A bit amazing. How come such an organisation is needed? Welcome to Military Religious Freedom Foundation

#17 SamSpeedo

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:24 AM

Darwinism is a tautology, survival of those that survive. It tells nothing of the origins of life, for that religion offers better explanations. (See Bible, book of Genisis)