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What if the planets and stars are "natural supercomputing systems"?


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#1 martillo

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 05:58 AM

Moderation note: the first 5 posts of this thread were moved from Cold Core Model of Earth's Structure, because they are about a different subject that that thread’s.

Forgive me If I distract your (all in this thread) attention for a little but I would like you to consider (just for a little) some very unexpected possibility for Earth's core.

Some times we don't find just what we are not looking for.

I know it would be hard to accept mainly at a first view but became to make sense someway to me since some time ago.

Here it goes:

What if the Universe is much more alive than we curently believe and stars are not just a "ball of fire" and planets and moons are not just "balls of some earth".
What if some kind of what we could call "natural supercomputing system" (I mean some kind of "harware/software" system) could exist inside some "superprotective sphere" inside stars, planets, moons and some kind of "software entities" could actually exist being what we could call their "Gods" or something like that.
What if a sophysticated "super system" exist in the Universe in which those "software entities" communicate (through some totally unknown communication mechanism) in some sort of "Universal network".

What if what we, humans, are doing here at Earth with computers and the internet is the same that those "intelligences" do naturally.

I apologize if this would be a too "fantastic" possibility.

#2 freeztar

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:07 AM

Forgive me If I distract your (all in this thread) attention for a little but I would like you to consider (just for a little) some very unexpected possibility for Earth's core.

Some times we don't find just what we are not looking for.

I know it would be hard to accept mainly at a first view but became to make sense someaway to me since some time ago.

Here it goes:

What if the Universe is much more alive than we curently believe and stars are not just a "ball of fire" and planets and moons are not just "balls of some "earth".
What if some kind of what we could call "natural supercomputing system" (I mean some kind of "harware/software" system) could exist inside some "superprotective sphere" and some kind of "software entities" could actually exist being what we could call the "Gods" of stars, planets and moons.
What if a sophysticated "super system" exist in the Universe in which those "software entities" communicate (through some totally unknown communication mechanism) in some sort of "Universal network".

What if what we, humans, are doing here at Earth with computers and the internet is the same that those "intelligences" do naturally.

I apologize if this would be a too "fantastic" possibility.


What if your post actually related to the topic? ;)

#3 martillo

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:18 AM

What if your post actually related to the topic?

Seems there is a misspelling and I don't know what do really wanted to say:
1) What if your post is actually related to the topic?
2) What if you post actually related to the topic?
Of course I think is the second one but just for the case...

#4 freeztar

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 12:40 PM

Seems there is a misspelling and I don't know what do really wanted to say:
1) What if your post is actually related to the topic?
2) What if you post actually related to the topic?
Of course I think is the second one but just for the case...


Sorry, I was not very clear there and it was a rude response for that reason alone. B)

Please allow me to elaborate and hopefully do a better job of getting the point across.

This thread is about a "cold core" theory of Earth's interior. I'm not sure what your post has to do with this. You started off your post with "Forgive me If I distract your (all in this thread) attention for a little but I would like you to consider (just for a little) some very unexpected possibility for Earth's core.". So, you are admittedly off-topic from the beginning, but that's ok. I just expected that you would follow through with an alternate explanation.

Instead, you started talking about a "natural supercomputing system" metaphor for the universe. Perhaps this is relevant to this thread and I'm just too dense to see it. Can you clarify this for me please?

#5 martillo

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 01:19 PM

My post wasn't well written too. I should have written in:

"What if some kind of what we could call "natural supercomputing system" (I mean some kind of "harware/software" system) could exist inside some "superprotective sphere" inside stars, planets, moons and some kind of "software entities" could actually exist being what we could call their "Gods" or something like that."

I will edit it to avoid other confusions.

The aim is to give just a little attention to something that, even remotely and unexpected in our current notion of the Universe, could be possible.

The main question in the thread is about the possibility of the core of Earth to not the way is currently thought and I see people "digging" in some possible structures of it, but if what I'm considering could have some sense they could be "digging" in the wrong direction...

#6 martillo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 01:40 PM

Does anybody knows about some experimental evidence towards or against this possibility?
For example about collisions between stars, have some collisions between stars have been observed through telescopes?
Do the stars have some kind of "ellastic collision" where the two stars separate after the collission remaining quite as if they were before the collision or they "smash" one into the other remaining as one bigger star after the collision?
Is there some information about real collision between stars?
I made a search in the web but only found computational simulations of stars' collisions only (with theoretical assumed models of course)...

#7 CraigD

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 05:28 PM

What if the Universe is much more alive than we curently believe and stars are not just a "ball of fire" and planets and moons are not just "balls of some earth".
What if some kind of what we could call "natural supercomputing system" (I mean some kind of "harware/software" system) could exist inside some "superprotective sphere" inside stars, planets, moons and some kind of "software entities" could actually exist being what we could call their "Gods" or something like that.

This is a venerable theme in science fiction literature. I believe it was present even before widespread fictional depictions of intelligent computer systems, at least as early as C. S. Lewis’s “Space Trilogy” (Out of the Silent Planet (1938), Perelandra (1943), That Hideous Strength (1945)), and in many books and stories since.

Though an intriguing science fictional idea, it’s a difficult one to make a scientific case for or against, because of the difficulty in designing an experiment that can test it as a hypothesis. Much of this difficulty arises from the many possible variations on the theme – rich ground for science fiction, but too vague for science. So an essential first step in asking the question scientifically is stating in detail the hypothesis – possible a large collection of hypotheses, covering variations such as natural vs. artificial origin, size, location, and how or if these computers communicate with one another, or with the beings living on or around them.

One family of hypothesis I think can be discarded is that the Earth and/or Sun and other planets contain godlike supercomputer-based intelligences with both the ability and desire to communicate with us, because despite the presumable ease with which a nearby god-like being would have in doing so – one could literally write a message in the sky or the surface of the sun – there’s no such message.

Once this family of hypothesis is discarded, we’re in trouble scientifically, because we’re left with the scenarios of godlike intelligences that aren’t aware of us or can’t communicate (neither of which is very conventionally godlike), ones that don’t want to, or that no such intelligence exists, with no obvious experiment that can distinguish between the scenarios. In short, we have a Russell’s teapot dilemma, a thing neither prohibited nor required by the laws of nature, for which no means of detection is presently available.

#8 martillo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:39 PM

Thank you for the comments CraigD.
I would be glad if I would not be the first one to have this kinds of ideas.
I will look for the cases you cite and think on those problems you are mentioning at this point as you see them.

#9 martillo

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 07:39 AM

This is a venerable theme in science fiction literature. I believe it was present even before widespread fictional depictions of intelligent computer systems, at least as early as C. S. Lewis’s “Space Trilogy” (Out of the Silent Planet (1938), Perelandra (1943), That Hideous Strength (1945)), and in many books and stories since.

Well, my point of view has nothing to do with greek mythology. There could be some kind of coincide with the fact that physicists gave to the discovered planets (after Galileo?) many years later the names of greek gods but is just a coincidence.

Though an intriguing science fictional idea, it’s a difficult one to make a scientific case for or against, because of the difficulty in designing an experiment that can test it as a hypothesis. Much of this difficulty arises from the many possible variations on the theme – rich ground for science fiction, but too vague for science. So an essential first step in asking the question scientifically is stating in detail the hypothesis – possible a large collection of hypotheses, covering variations such as natural vs. artificial origin, size, location, and how or if these computers communicate with one another, or with the beings living on or around them.

I agree that to solve all the possible questions that may arise it could be an impossible "cientifical case" if we base the possible proofs and demonstrations in observable evidence but let me point out at this point that humanity knowledge didn't evolved in the "empiricist way" only (Empiricism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), the "rationalist way" (Rationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) also exist and they must work together, they must complement each other for at the end everything make sense.
May be we would not be able to answer all questions in a short period of time but I think the aim is to make advancements so that in the future (may be even future generations) other people could have something already solved for them to "start" in a better "base" and then they could dedicate to solve more problems. I think this is the way humanity has evolved.
And there's another point of view that I consider. I agree with the concept of "dualism of mind and body", in some kind of separation in ourselves as body and mind or soul and if just for the case my "soul" would stubbornly return to live some other life here I would like to also not have to start from the same "level" again. I would like to have many things already solved to be able to focus in other problems.

One family of hypothesis I think can be discarded is that the Earth and/or Sun and other planets contain godlike supercomputer-based intelligences with both the ability and desire to communicate with us, because despite the presumable ease with which a nearby god-like being would have in doing so – one could literally write a message in the sky or the surface of the sun – there’s no such message.

Once this family of hypothesis is discarded, we’re in trouble scientifically, because we’re left with the scenarios of godlike intelligences that aren’t aware of us or can’t communicate (neither of which is very conventionally godlike), ones that don’t want to, or that no such intelligence exists, with no obvious experiment that can distinguish between the scenarios. In short, we have a Russell’s teapot dilemma, a thing neither prohibited nor required by the laws of nature, for which no means of detection is presently available.

I agree, there are no such messages. I also don't think they could directly "communicate" us anything.
This is another "big" task, to determine what kind of things they could be able to do and what not.
But I'm proposing to not discard the possibility of the existence of such kind of intelligences. I see the problem of determining how they would be and what they could really do or not as a challenge.
At this point let me say that I have "faith" but no Religion. There's no Religion that satisfies my faith and I must also point out that there's a big problem with the definition of the concept of "Gods" in the dictionary as a totally knowgeadble, powerfull, present, etc and with the concept that they could determine each event happening in the World and more specifically in our lifes.
That's why I talk about "intelligences" but inevitable the concept mixes with the more popular concept of "Gods".

As I say the aim is to advance to have a better knowledge about the reality of our World, the Universe and our lifes and may be how to make our contribution in the process of their improvement.

By the way, do you have some information about my posted question if real collisions between stars have been observed and if they are ellsatic (separating after) or if they actually smash merging in a bigger one?